Critical Kill Loops - Revision history

PANGH at 06:30, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T06:30:04Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:30, 6 November 2026
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	A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal ~~at that location~~. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.		A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.

	It is the third page in a set:		It is the third page in a set:

PANGH at 02:08, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T02:08:26Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:08, 5 November 2026
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	* '''Open''' assumes no weighting at all. Weapon and natural DEX weighting raise these numbers, so treat them as a floor.		* '''Open''' assumes no weighting at all. Weapon and natural DEX weighting raise these numbers, so treat them as a floor.
	* '''Hidden''' adds 45 points of ambush weighting, the middle of the 40–50 estimate for a fully trained ambusher. Bows get no ambush weighting, so their hidden numbers equal their open ones; the stance pushdown they do get raises the endroll, which these tables hold fixed.		* '''Hidden''' adds 45 points of ambush weighting, the middle of the 40–50 estimate for a fully trained ambusher. Bows get no ambush weighting, so their hidden numbers equal their open ones; the stance pushdown they do get raises the endroll, which these tables hold fixed.
			* '''No rank-0 cutoff for weighting.''' The [[Critical]] page says weighting is not applied when the unweighted critical rank would be 0. Player logs show hidden ambushes producing rank 4–6 critical hits on attacks that would be rank 0 without weighting, so these tables apply weighting to every hit. See the field check below.
	* '''Margin for base 7''' is the endroll margin (endroll − 100) needed to reach base 7 with no weighting. At base 7 the lowest possible roll is rank 4.		* '''Margin for base 7''' is the endroll margin (endroll − 100) needed to reach base 7 with no weighting. At base 7 the lowest possible roll is rank 4.
	* Padding is not included. Damage factors and damage-type mixes come from [[OHE\|Edged Weapons]], [[OHB\|Blunt Weapons]], [[THW\|Two-Handed Weapons]], [[Polearm\|Polearm Weapons]] and the [[Archery guide]].		* Padding is not included. Damage factors and damage-type mixes come from [[OHE\|Edged Weapons]], [[OHB\|Blunt Weapons]], [[THW\|Two-Handed Weapons]], [[Polearm\|Polearm Weapons]] and the [[Archery guide]].

			=== Field check: one ambusher's log ===
			A logged hide → ambush loop with a dagger (critical weighting CER 6) against Citadel guardsmen, who wear chain (critical divisor 9, dagger DF .125):

			{\| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
			! Endroll !! Critical seen !! Raw damage from DF alone !! Unweighted rank !! Weighting needed for that rank
			\|-
			\| 208 \|\| Slash leg 6, knockdown \|\| 13.5 \|\| 1 \|\| 41 or more
			\|-
			\| 154 \|\| Puncture leg 6, knockdown \|\| 6.8 \|\| 0 \|\| 47 or more
			\|-
			\| 179 \|\| Puncture leg 7 \|\| 9.9 \|\| 1 \|\| 53 or more
			\|}

			* The dagger carries at least 53 points of total weighting from weapon weighting, Ambush and DEX combined. That is consistent with the 45-point ambush estimate used here plus the weapon's own weighting.
			* The 154 endroll would be rank 0 without weighting, yet it rolled rank 6. This is why the tables below do not apply the rank-0 cutoff.
			* Aimed leg attacks landed on the leg 20 of 21 times in the same log. Knockdowns followed every leg critical of rank 4 or higher on corporeal targets.
			* This is a single log, not a controlled test. Padding on the guardsmen is unknown and would raise the weighting needed.

	== Top 5 finishers ==		== Top 5 finishers ==
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	! # !! Finisher !! Aim !! RT used !! Kill chance per swing<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small> !! Kills per minute of swinging<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small>		! # !! Finisher !! Aim !! RT used !! Kill chance per swing<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small> !! Kills per minute of swinging<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small>
	\|-		\|-
	\| 1 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| 2s \|\| 100% / 67% / 0% \|\| 30.0 / 20.0 / 0.0		\| 1 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| 2s \|\| 100% / 67% / 22% \|\| 30.0 / 20.0 / 6.7
	\|-		\|-
	\| 2 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Katar \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| 20.0 / 18.3 / 11.1		\| 2 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Katar \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| 20.0 / 18.3 / 11.1
	\|-		\|-
	\| 3 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Estoc~~ \|\| Eye \|\| 4s \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| 15.0 / 13.8 / 8.3		\| 3 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Rapier \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 67% / 22% \|\| 20.0 / 13.3 / 4.4
	\|-		\|-
	\| 4 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Rapier~~ \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 67% / 0% \|\| 20.0 / 13.3 / 0.0		\| 4 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Main gauche \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 67% / 22% \|\| 20.0 / 13.3 / 4.4
	\|-		\|-
	\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Main gauche~~ \|\| Eye \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 67% / 0% \|\| 20.0 / 13.3 / 0.0		\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Estoc \|\| Eye \|\| 4s \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| 15.0 / 13.8 / 8.3
	\|}		\|}
	== Speed × knockdown: top 5 ==		== Speed × knockdown: top 5 ==
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	! # !! Weapon !! RT used !! Knockdown chance per leg swing<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small> !! Knockdowns per minute of swinging<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small>		! # !! Weapon !! RT used !! Knockdown chance per leg swing<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small> !! Knockdowns per minute of swinging<br><small>leather / chain / plate</small>
	\|-		\|-
	\| 1 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Katar~~ \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / ~~100~~% / 67% \|\| 20.0 / 20.0 / 13.3		\| 1 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| 2s \|\| 100% / 75% / 56% \|\| 30.0 / 22.5 / 16.7
	\|-		\|-
	\| 2 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Dagger~~ \|\| 2s \|\| 100% / 75% / 0% \|\| 30.0 / 22.5 / 0.0		\| 2 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Katar \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 100% / 67% \|\| 20.0 / 20.0 / 13.3
	\|-		\|-
	\| 3 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Estoc~~ \|\| 4s \|\| 100% / ~~100~~% / 67% \|\| 15.0 / 15.0 / 10.0		\| 3 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Rapier \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 75% / 56% \|\| 20.0 / 15.0 / 11.1
	\|-		\|-
	\| 4 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Mace~~ \|\| 4s \|\| 100% / ~~100~~% / 67% \|\| 15.0 / 15.0 / 10.0		\| 4 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Main gauche \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 75% / 56% \|\| 20.0 / 15.0 / 11.1
	\|-		\|-
	\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| ~~Rapier~~ \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 75% / 0% \|\| 20.0 / 15.0 / 0.0		\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Leather whip \|\| 3s \|\| 100% / 75% / 33% \|\| 20.0 / 15.0 / 6.7
	\|}		\|}
	== Finisher reference ==		== Finisher reference ==
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	\| style="text-align:left;" \| Morning star \|\| Head \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| crush 67% (5+), puncture 33% (6+) \|\| .325 / .300 / .225 \|\| 130 / 210 / 343 \|\| 22% / 0% / 0% \|\| 93% / 73% / 42% \|\| 5		\| style="text-align:left;" \| Morning star \|\| Head \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| crush 67% (5+), puncture 33% (6+) \|\| .325 / .300 / .225 \|\| 130 / 210 / 343 \|\| 22% / 0% / 0% \|\| 93% / 73% / 42% \|\| 5
	\|-		\|-
	\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| slash 33% (5+), puncture 67% (4+) \|\| .200 / .125 / .075 \|\| 210 / 504 / 1027 \|\| 0% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 67% / 0% \|\| 1		\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| slash 33% (5+), puncture 67% (4+) \|\| .200 / .125 / .075 \|\| 210 / 504 / 1027 \|\| 0% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 67% / 22% \|\| 1
	\|-		\|-
	\| style="text-align:left;" \| Long bow \|\| Eye \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| slash 33% (5+), puncture 67% (4+) \|\| .325 / .300 / .175 \|\| 130 / 210 / 440 \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| varies		\| style="text-align:left;" \| Long bow \|\| Eye \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| slash 33% (5+), puncture 67% (4+) \|\| .325 / .300 / .175 \|\| 130 / 210 / 440 \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| varies
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	\| style="text-align:left;" \| [[Hamstring]] \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Prone (may knock down), major bleed \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Estoc \|\| Eye \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Hamstring needs a one-handed slashing weapon. The estoc has the best DF of the puncture-heavy blades.		\| style="text-align:left;" \| [[Hamstring]] \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Prone (may knock down), major bleed \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Estoc \|\| Eye \|\| 56% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 92% / 56% \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Hamstring needs a one-handed slashing weapon. The estoc has the best DF of the puncture-heavy blades.
	\|-		\|-
	\| style="text-align:left;" \| [[Sweep]], then hide \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Prone, Vulnerable, Staggered \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| 0% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 67% / 0% \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Useless as an open finisher, but ambush weighting carries it against leather.		\| style="text-align:left;" \| [[Sweep]], then hide \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Prone, Vulnerable, Staggered \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Dagger \|\| Eye \|\| 0% / 0% / 0% \|\| 100% / 67% / 22% \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Useless as an open finisher, but ambush weighting carries it against leather and most of the way against chain.
	\|}		\|}

PANGH at 01:53, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T01:53:18Z

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 |date = 2026-11-5
 }}
-A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal at a specific location. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.
+A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal at that location. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.
 It is the third page in a set:
@@ Line 68: / Line 68: @@
 == Speed × crit: top 5 ==
-The tables above rank finishers per swing. A fast weapon gets more swings in the same time, so two dagger attempts can beat one estoc attempt. These tables rank finishers by '''kills per minute of swinging''': kill chance per swing × 60 ÷ roundtime.
+The tables above rank finishers per swing. A fast weapon gets more swings in the same time, so two dagger attempts can beat one estoc attempt. These tables rank finishers by '''kills per minute of swinging''': kill chance per swing × 60 ÷ roundtime. Each table is ranked by total kills per minute across leather, chain and plate, so a weapon that still kills through chain can outrank one that is faster against leather alone.
 * Roundtime used is the larger of the weapon's base RT and minimum RT from its weapon table. Your actual RT depends on stats, encumbrance and haste effects.
@@ Line 88: / Line 88: @@
 | 5 || style="text-align:left;" | Maul || Head || 7s || 75% / 0% / 0% || 6.4 / 0.0 / 0.0
 |}
 === Hidden ambush ===
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 |-
 | 5 || style="text-align:left;" | Main gauche || Eye || 3s || 100% / 67% / 0% || 20.0 / 13.3 / 0.0
 |}
 == Finisher reference ==

PANGH at 01:36, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T01:36:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:36, 5 November 2026
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	\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Maul \|\| Head \|\| 7s \|\| 75% / 0% / 0% \|\| 6.4 / 0.0 / 0.0		\| 5 \|\| style="text-align:left;" \| Maul \|\| Head \|\| 7s \|\| 75% / 0% / 0% \|\| 6.4 / 0.0 / 0.0
	\|}		\|}
			Each table is ranked by total kills per minute across leather, chain and plate, so a weapon that still kills through chain can outrank one that is faster against leather alone.

	=== Hidden ambush ===		=== Hidden ambush ===

PANGH: PANGH moved page User:PANGH/Critical Kill Loops to Critical Kill Loops

2026-11-06T01:31:52Z

PANGH moved page User:PANGH/Critical Kill Loops to Critical Kill Loops

← Older revision	Revision as of 19:31, 5 November 2026
(No difference)

PANGH at 01:24, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T01:24:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:24, 5 November 2026
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	\|date = 2026-11-5		\|date = 2026-11-5
	}}		}}
	A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal at ~~that~~ location. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.		A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal at a specific location. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.

	It is the third page in a set:		It is the third page in a set:

PANGH at 01:23, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T01:23:56Z

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 |date = 2026-11-5
 }}
 A kill loop is a setup that disables the target, followed by an aimed finisher whose critical is fatal at that location. This page lists the strongest setup and finisher pairs by weapon category, with the chance each finisher kills against leather, chain and plate, from an open aim and from a hidden ambush.
@@ Line 68: / Line 67: @@
 High damage factor and a high share of puncture (eye fatal from rank 4) or crush (head fatal from rank 5) make the best finishers. Hidden-ambush weighting closes most of the gap for light weapons against leather, but not against plate.
 == Finisher reference ==
 Every finisher on this page, with the numbers behind the rankings.

PANGH at 01:08, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T01:08:03Z

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PANGH at 00:33, 6 November 2026

2026-11-06T00:33:39Z

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