INIQUITY: footnote updates due to documentation changes

2023-05-03T14:28:07Z

footnote updates due to documentation changes

INIQUITY at 19:50, 23 January 2021

2021-01-23T19:50:27Z

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INIQUITY: footnotes and internal links

2021-01-18T16:42:25Z

footnotes and internal links

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INIQUITY: adding footnotes, about halfway finished

2021-01-15T20:51:57Z

adding footnotes, about halfway finished

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INIQUITY: new, will add links to documents later

2020-08-17T06:22:28Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 09:28, 3 May 2023
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	Xorus says, "Which brings us back to the human language families and the extinct language found around River's Rest."		Xorus says, "Which brings us back to the human language families and the extinct language found around River's Rest."

	Xorus says, "What the human [[reiver]]s speak is mostly not from the same language family as the Torre ruins, though the reivers of [[Luinne Bheinn]] do have their own dialect of common descended from it." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(46)]]		Xorus says, "What the human [[reiver]]s speak is mostly not from the same language family as the Torre ruins, though the reivers of [[Luinne Bheinn]] do have their own dialect of common descended from it." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(46)]] [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(156)]]

	Xorus says, "It is thought this ancient kingdom in what is now Torre was their ancestral land before the krolvin made reivers of them." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(47)]]		Xorus says, "It is thought this ancient kingdom in what is now Torre was their ancestral land before the krolvin made reivers of them." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(47)]]
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	Xorus says, "But this was not the only region of the west to be so insulated."		Xorus says, "But this was not the only region of the west to be so insulated."

	Xorus says, "In the [[Sea of Fire]] the pre-Kannalan tribes developed the [[Tehir]] dialects, which are more gendered than Common, but it is to a large extent the same language as the imperial dialect only pronounced very differently." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(64)]]		Xorus says, "In the [[Sea of Fire]] the pre-Kannalan tribes developed the [[Tehir]] dialects, which are more gendered than Common, but it is to a large extent the same language as the imperial dialect only pronounced very differently." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(64)]] [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(155)]]

	Xorus says, "It is thought that the overlap of closely related Kannalan languages in the south caused most of the inflections to be lost from Common." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(65)]]		Xorus says, "It is thought that the overlap of closely related Kannalan languages in the south caused most of the inflections to be lost from Common." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(65)]]
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	Xorus says, "This would have been in a time long before the rise of civilization."		Xorus says, "This would have been in a time long before the rise of civilization."

	Xorus says, "Bir Mahallah itself, incidentally, is not Tehir. The words must be a survival from the nameless older civilization who built the great black monoliths in the Sea of Fire." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(74)]]		Xorus says, "Bir Mahallah itself, incidentally, is not Tehir. The words must be a survival from the nameless older civilization who built the great black monoliths in the Sea of Fire." [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(74)]] [[History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture)#Footnotes\|(155)]]

	Lylia asks, "'Loorn' in [[Iruaric]], yes? Or is there a glottal stop, lo'orn?"		Lylia asks, "'Loorn' in [[Iruaric]], yes? Or is there a glottal stop, lo'orn?"
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	[46] Luinne Bheinn is from around 1997 and their ancient Torre roots is from material made over a decade later. This is referring to the lowland Scots words used in the reiver settlement, which is a Germanic language descended from Northumbrian English, moreso than the Scottish accent they use when speaking Common. It is an extrapolation based on assuming internal consistency for their history. The speaker is assuming this language family originated on some other continent and the reivers imported it back to Elanith with them, and then the several Celtic languages present in northwest Elanith areas can be hand-waved as having evolved from this common root. There are multiple cases of Irish and Welsh, such as Castle Anwyn, used within the game as well as the Scottish Gaelic.		[46] Luinne Bheinn is from around 1997 and their ancient Torre roots is from material made over a decade later. This is referring to the lowland Scots words used in the reiver settlement, which is a Germanic language descended from Northumbrian English, moreso than the Scottish accent they use when speaking Common. It is an extrapolation based on assuming internal consistency for their history. The speaker is assuming this language family originated on some other continent and the reivers imported it back to Elanith with them, and then the several Celtic languages present in northwest Elanith areas can be hand-waved as having evolved from this common root. There are multiple cases of Irish and Welsh, such as Castle Anwyn, used within the game as well as the Scottish Gaelic.

	This kind of reasoning can only be pushed so far, or else we would need in-character origins of languages like French and Latin and so on, since there are many English words originating in them. It is similarly absurd to try to define (as people have sometimes tried to do) a European equivalent time period for Elanthia based on, say, the presence of castle terminology originating in French from a certain century. GemStone is ultimately a pastiche and not a historical period setting. Though Scribes used Old English, a West Germanic language, we are effectively assuming the whole Germanic language branch. There is a reasonable argument that the Greek/Latin influences in Common should be interpreted as having come from the elves given its heavy use in the Faendryl documentation.		This kind of reasoning can only be pushed so far, or else we would need in-character origins of languages like French and Latin and so on, since there are many English words originating in them. It is similarly absurd to try to define (as people have sometimes tried to do) a European equivalent time period for Elanthia based on, say, the presence of castle terminology originating in French from a certain century. GemStone is ultimately a pastiche and not a historical period setting. Though Scribes used Old English, a West Germanic language, we are effectively assuming the whole Germanic language branch. There is a reasonable argument that the Greek/Latin influences in Common should be interpreted as having come from the elves given its heavy use in the Faendryl documentation. ''(Edit: This footnote is modified by footnote 156, due to later lore documentation.)''

	[47] This is the implication when combining the "Unfinished Smuggler's History of River's Rest" and "Of Krolvin and Reivers" documents. The Casler Huntington storyline was between 2007 and 2010.		[47] This is the implication when combining the "Unfinished Smuggler's History of River's Rest" and "Of Krolvin and Reivers" documents. The Casler Huntington storyline was between 2007 and 2010.
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	[63] This is referring to the I.C.E. Age troll language, and not the Trollspeak developed by GM Aephir. It was used in the Landing region in a few places. It is archaic but technically it still exists.		[63] This is referring to the I.C.E. Age troll language, and not the Trollspeak developed by GM Aephir. It was used in the Landing region in a few places. It is archaic but technically it still exists.

	[64] The Tehir language in the documentation ( "[[Life and Being in the Sea of Fire]]" ) is a slightly complicated cipher of English. Since this is something a character could recognize by studying it, the speaker is interpreting Tehir as a distant dialect of Common (even though it's too artificial to be a dialect), since it's effectively just a very different way of pronouncing English with its own cultural idioms. The cipher is broken down at [[Research:Tehir Language]]. This cipher language was developed before the mechanic for speaking Tehir as a culture language was introduced. It allows someone to construct new words in Tehir by following the rules. This sentence refers to "Tehir dialects" to skirt around being both a fictional constructed language and a mechanic that sweeps it under the rug.		[64] The Tehir language in the documentation ( "[[Life and Being in the Sea of Fire]]" ) is a slightly complicated cipher of English. Since this is something a character could recognize by studying it, the speaker is interpreting Tehir as a distant dialect of Common (even though it's too artificial to be a dialect), since it's effectively just a very different way of pronouncing English with its own cultural idioms. The cipher is broken down at [[Research:Tehir Language]]. This cipher language was developed before the mechanic for speaking Tehir as a culture language was introduced. It allows someone to construct new words in Tehir by following the rules. This sentence refers to "Tehir dialects" to skirt around being both a fictional constructed language and a mechanic that sweeps it under the rug. ''(Edit: See footnote 155, revising this footnote.)''

	[65] This is a minor embellishment. Since the proto-language is Old English, and Common is modern English, it is borrowing the reason modern English is not a gendered language. When the Vikings invaded England, the Old Norse and Old English languages collided, and being so similar, the inflections were wiped out from the populations speaking with each other. It is reasonable to assume something similar happened in the fall of the Kannalan Empire to "barbarians."		[65] This is a minor embellishment. Since the proto-language is Old English, and Common is modern English, it is borrowing the reason modern English is not a gendered language. When the Vikings invaded England, the Old Norse and Old English languages collided, and being so similar, the inflections were wiped out from the populations speaking with each other. It is reasonable to assume something similar happened in the fall of the Kannalan Empire to "barbarians."
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	[73] "[[History of Fash'lo'nae#"Results."\|History of Fash'lo'nae: "Results."]] - [[Vaelsoth Inzuniel]], [[Watchers of the Eternal Eye\|Watcher of the Eternal Eye]]; 5108, Modern Era		[73] "[[History of Fash'lo'nae#"Results."\|History of Fash'lo'nae: "Results."]] - [[Vaelsoth Inzuniel]], [[Watchers of the Eternal Eye\|Watcher of the Eternal Eye]]; 5108, Modern Era

	[74] While "Bir" could be "Ring" in the Tehir cipher, "Mahallah" is gibberish. This is extrapolated by the speaker to assume the word originates in the prior civilization from its ruins. The Sea of Fire originated arbitrarily in the first map of northwest Elanith by GM Banthis in 1996, which was pieced together with imagery of Australia, and was a fiery coloration on that map. The Tehir and Sea of Fire (along with the term Bir Mahallah) were left as an undeveloped plot hook by GM Warden in the Turamzzyrian timeline document. Players developed their own Tehir cultures, and the Tehir culture document and cipher language were written later, so Mahallah does not mean anything in it because it is older. The Common elongated "ll" sound also is not supported in the Tehir cipher, which is another reason to interpret the word as foreign.		[74] While "Bir" could be "Ring" in the Tehir cipher, "Mahallah" is gibberish. This is extrapolated by the speaker to assume the word originates in the prior civilization from its ruins. The Sea of Fire originated arbitrarily in the first map of northwest Elanith by GM Banthis in 1996, which was pieced together with imagery of Australia, and was a fiery coloration on that map. The Tehir and Sea of Fire (along with the term Bir Mahallah) were left as an undeveloped plot hook by GM Warden in the Turamzzyrian timeline document. Players developed their own Tehir cultures, and the Tehir culture document and cipher language were written later, so Mahallah does not mean anything in it because it is older. The Common elongated "ll" sound also is not supported in the Tehir cipher, which is another reason to interpret the word as foreign. ''(Edit: See footnote 155. This argument on Mahallah not being a Tehir word is possibly outmoded by later documentation about the cipher rules being a within-setting Tehir practice of artificial sub-language.)''

	[75] "[[History of Reim]]" (2016)		[75] "[[History of Reim]]" (2016)
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	As a matter of retcon, the "[[History of Fash'lo'nae]]" document from 2008 suggests Augustin Vespertinae was probably elven (and that the vesperti were made by experimenting on elves), since it says he traveled west across DragonSpine. (For what it is worth this would have been before the Zul Logoth trail was opened by the Elven monarchs.) Consistent with the recognition that the Faendryl documentation is heavy in Latin and Greek, this could be hand-wave interpreted as an Elven influence on the foggy valley cultists and sorcerers. Though Bonespear was a dwarf and his partner was a human.		As a matter of retcon, the "[[History of Fash'lo'nae]]" document from 2008 suggests Augustin Vespertinae was probably elven (and that the vesperti were made by experimenting on elves), since it says he traveled west across DragonSpine. (For what it is worth this would have been before the Zul Logoth trail was opened by the Elven monarchs.) Consistent with the recognition that the Faendryl documentation is heavy in Latin and Greek, this could be hand-wave interpreted as an Elven influence on the foggy valley cultists and sorcerers. Though Bonespear was a dwarf and his partner was a human.

			[155] The way Xorus worded this can still be interpreted as correct. However, "[[Life and Being in the Sea of Fire#Language\|Life and Being in the Sea of Fire]]" was updated in May 2023 to explicitly recognize IC the existence of the cipher, as something the Tehir do on purpose when coining words to obscure their meaning while speaking other languages. The better wording for this than "cipher" would be that these words are an "argot" or cant language within Tehir. This is dubious in its implications because when actually analyzed, most established Tehir words - including "Tehir" itself and almost every Tehir word in that original document - decipher as words in Common rather than some other word in Tehir, with known meaning having been taught to others by Tehir, while Tehir as a whole for a long time was itself a secret language they would not share with outsiders. But it is basically just giving within-setting recognition for the existence of the cipher and treating it as a secretive "sub-language" within the Tehir language.

			Xorus in this sentence was instead arguing that if you treat the regularities of pronunciation and grammatical differences between Common and Tehir as if they were a kind of phonetic pseudo-cipher, some words in Tehir are recognizably cognate with Common words due to shared roots in some more ancestral language. So in the subsequent sentences he speaks of it as though it were in a limited sense a very different pronunciation of essentially the same cognate words. This was a strained way of explaining the content of the cipher without calling it a cipher or assuming it was all an artificial sub-language of Tehir. With the argot premise this is instead because all those Tehir words are really just Common words after having been calqued through a specialized Tehir grammar, all within the past few hundred years, which means effectively they are only Tehir words because the Tehir have assimilated them into their own speech. The sentence for footnote 74 however may now be a fallacious argument, because Mahallah could now be a Tehir word outside the cipher rules.

			[156] The way Xorus worded this can still be interpreted as correct. However, "[[Pathways to the Orders of the Turamzzyrian Empire]]" in May 2023 (in some ways an update to parts of "Prestige and Prejudice in the Empire - On Imperial Rank and Titles" from almost a decade earlier) introduced a number of Kannalan words, which are actually words in Welsh. (e.g. Mavwyr, Cydsenwyr, Athrasenwyr, and others.) Welsh is in the same language family as the Gaelic words used in reiver areas, but not the same language family as the early Kannalan sentences Scribes wrote using Old English. Celtic family dictionaries were also used for naming places in the Elven Nations (e.g. Teorrain Dale, Glaise Cnoc), and the Kingdom of Anwyn was ruled by Elves. "[[Blood of the Sea: The Krolvin and Their Descendants]]" from July 2021 also established the eastward return of the reivers to the relatively recent year 4629 Modern Era with the krolvin invasion of Skaellig Reive, which implicitly gives a different IC etymology for the word "reiver" than the original implication of "border reivers" in the medieval Scottish-English borderlands sense of the word.

	[[Category:Logs]]		[[Category:Logs]]

History and Language of Dark Elves (lecture) - Revision history

INIQUITY: footnote updates due to documentation changes

INIQUITY at 19:50, 23 January 2021

INIQUITY: footnotes and internal links

INIQUITY: adding footnotes, about halfway finished

INIQUITY: new, will add links to documents later