Leafiara (prime)/Mechanical Musings/Combat Maneuver Choices - Revision history

LEAFIARA at 23:58, 26 November 2024

2024-11-26T23:58:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:58, 26 November 2024
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	=Preamble=		=Preamble=

	This page mostly assesses [[Combat Maneuvers\|combat maneuvers]] from the perspective of post-cap characters, but even while leveling, there are often insights to be found from reading others' thought processes. Below is ~~mine~~ process in case others find it helpful!		This page mostly assesses [[Combat Maneuvers\|combat maneuvers]] from the perspective of post-cap characters, but even while leveling, there are often insights to be found from reading others' thought processes. Below is my process in case others find it helpful!

	=Bard=		=Bard=
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			[[Category:Guides]]

LEAFIARA at 23:55, 26 November 2024

2024-11-26T23:55:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:55, 26 November 2024
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			{{player-guide
			\|title = Combat Maneuver Choices
			\|topic = Combat Maneuvers, Training
			\|author = Leafiara
			\|author-displayed = Leafiara
			\|date = 2021-07-11
			\|updated = 2023-08-07
			}}



	<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard mw-customtoggle-cleric mw-customtoggle-empath mw-customtoggle-monk mw-customtoggle-paladin mw-customtoggle-ranger mw-customtoggle-rogue mw-customtoggle-warrior" style="color:#0000FF">'''(click here to open all collapsed sections on this page)'''</div>		<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard mw-customtoggle-cleric mw-customtoggle-empath mw-customtoggle-monk mw-customtoggle-paladin mw-customtoggle-ranger mw-customtoggle-rogue mw-customtoggle-warrior" style="color:#0000FF">'''(click here to open all collapsed sections on this page)'''</div>

LEAFIARA at 23:56, 7 August 2023

2023-08-07T23:56:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:56, 7 August 2023
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	=Preamble=		=Preamble=

	~~After~~ ~~testing~~ [[~~Player_System_Manager_-_Phase_3~~\|~~Phase~~ 3 of the ~~Player~~ ~~System~~ ~~Manager]]~~ ~~for~~ ~~five~~ ~~weeks,~~ I ~~figured~~ ~~that~~ ~~I'd~~ ~~experienced~~ ~~enough~~ to ~~settle~~ on ~~plans~~ ~~for~~ ~~which [[Combat Maneuvers\|combat maneuvers]] I~~'d ~~learn on each of my characters when the changes went~~ ~~live~~. Below is ~~my thought~~ process ~~for each one~~ in case others find it helpful!		This page mostly assesses [[Combat Maneuvers\|combat maneuvers]] from the perspective of post-cap characters, but even while leveling, there are often insights to be found from reading others' thought processes. Below is mine process in case others find it helpful!

	=Bard=		=Bard=

LEAFIARA at 23:54, 7 August 2023

2023-08-07T23:54:44Z

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LEAFIARA at 08:58, 22 March 2022

2022-03-22T08:58:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:58, 22 March 2022
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	Shield Bash sbash 3/5		Shield Bash sbash 3/5
	Side by Side sidebyside 5/5		Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
	Sweep sweep 5/5 Rogue Guild		Sweep sweep 5/5 Rogue Guild
	Sweep sweep 5/5 Rogue Guild
	Trip trip 3/5		Trip trip 3/5

LEAFIARA at 03:45, 12 November 2021

2021-11-12T03:45:14Z

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LEAFIARA at 04:04, 18 September 2021

2021-09-18T04:04:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:04, 17 September 2021
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	Coup de Grace coupdegrace 4/5		Coup de Grace coupdegrace 4/5
	Dirtkick dirtkick 1/5		Dirtkick dirtkick 1/5
			Divert divert 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3		Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3
	Eyepoke eyepoke 6/6 Rogue Guild		Eyepoke eyepoke 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Footstomp footstomp 6/6 Rogue Guild		Footstomp footstomp 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Groin Kick gkick 1/5		Groin Kick gkick 1/5
	Hamstring hamstring 3/5		Hamstring hamstring 1/5
	Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5		Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5
	Kneebash kneebash 6/6 Rogue Guild		Kneebash kneebash 6/6 Rogue Guild
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	Stun Maneuvers stunman 1/5 Rogue Guild		Stun Maneuvers stunman 1/5 Rogue Guild
	Subdue subdue 1/5 Rogue Guild		Subdue subdue 1/5 Rogue Guild
	Surge of Strength surge 5/5		Surge of Strength surge 4/5
	Sweep sweep 6/6 Rogue Guild		Sweep sweep 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Swiftkick swiftkick 6/6 Rogue Guild		Swiftkick swiftkick 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Templeshot templeshot 6/6 Rogue Guild		Templeshot templeshot 6/6 Rogue Guild
	Throatchop throatchop 6/6 Rogue Guild		Throatchop throatchop 6/6 Rogue Guild
			Weapon Specialization wspec 4/5
	Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3		Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3

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	* '''Dirtkick''': Only one rank because it's the desperation option against enemies where all else fails. Working in defensive stance gives it a niche.		* '''Dirtkick''': Only one rank because it's the desperation option against enemies where all else fails. Working in defensive stance gives it a niche.
	* '''Groin Kick''': Here for defensive purposes.		* '''Groin Kick''': Here for defensive purposes.
	* '''Hamstring''': Works well with two weapons.		* '''Hamstring''': Works well with two weapons, but I didn't feel that having more than one rank was necessary when Cripple is right there.
	* '''Evade Specialization''': Always half the cornerstone of Spin Kick builds.		* '''Evade Specialization''': Always half the cornerstone of Spin Kick builds.
	* '''Kick Specialization''': Always the other half.		* '''Kick Specialization''': Always the other half.
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	* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.		* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
	* '''Surge of Strength''': AS booster to make up for the relatively low power of edged weapons.		* '''Surge of Strength''': AS booster to make up for the relatively low power of edged weapons.
			* '''Weapon Specialization''': Another AS booster.
	* '''Whirling Dervish''': I can't imagine going for anything other than this on a two weapon combat rogue.		* '''Whirling Dervish''': I can't imagine going for anything other than this on a two weapon combat rogue.

LEAFIARA at 01:21, 4 August 2021

2021-08-04T01:21:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:21, 3 August 2021
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	--------------------------------------------------------------------------------		--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Berserk berserk 6/6 Warrior Guild		Berserk berserk 6/6 Warrior Guild
	Combat Focus focus 5/5		Combat Focus focus 3/5
	Combat Mobility mobility 1/1		Combat Mobility mobility 1/1
	Combat Movement cmovement 2/5		Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
	~~Disarm~~ ~~Weapon~~ ~~disarm~~ ~~6/6~~ ~~Warrior~~ ~~Guild~~		Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3/5
		⚫	Disarm Weapon disarm 1/5 Warrior Guild
	Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3		Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3
	Feint feint 6/6 Warrior Guild		Feint feint 6/6 Warrior Guild
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	Surge of Strength surge 5/5		Surge of Strength surge 5/5
	Tackle tackle 6/6 Warrior Guild		Tackle tackle 6/6 Warrior Guild
⚫	~~True~~ ~~Strike~~ ~~truestrike~~ 2/5
	Weapon Specialization wspec 5/5		Weapon Specialization wspec 5/5
	Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3		Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3
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	* '''Berserk''': Now relegated to use in Duskruin Arena only.		* '''Berserk''': Now relegated to use in Duskruin Arena only.
	* '''Combat Focus''': A necessary step to bringing TD back in line for a warrior in robes. (I do plan to learn Elemental Barrier and Lesser Shroud for her, but at that point we're talking years down the line.)		* '''Combat Focus''': A necessary step to bringing TD back in line for a warrior in robes. (I do plan to learn Elemental Barrier and Lesser Shroud for her, but at that point we're talking years down the line.) Five ranks are too much opportunity cost, so I decided to make up the rest and then some with +TD robes--which are much more readily available in playershops than people might think! You do have to give up the flare slot, though.
	* '''Combat Mobility''': Even in plate I'd argue this is a very strong contender for anyone's maneuver points, but in any armor below chain I'd go further and call it a must-have.		* '''Combat Mobility''': Even in plate I'd argue this is a very strong contender for anyone's maneuver points, but in any armor below chain I'd go further and call it a must-have.
			* '''Coup de Grace''': AS booster. I think three ranks are fine on a lance wielder since the weapon hits so hard it's likely to put enemies within range.
	* '''Disarm Weapon''': Here because it comes free from the guild, but I doubt I'd train it otherwise.		* '''Disarm Weapon''': Here because it comes free from the guild, but I doubt I'd train it otherwise.
	* '''Evade Specialization''': The key to my warrior's entire build since it fuels Radial Sweep and Spin Kick depending on what's in her hands.		* '''Evade Specialization''': The key to my warrior's entire build since it fuels Radial Sweep and Spin Kick depending on what's in her hands.
	* '''Feint''': Free from the guild, but I'm undecided on whether I'd train it otherwise. I'm overall not a fan of war cries moving to stamina, but Gerrelle's Growl being among them is definitely one of the upsides. It costs less stamina than Feint, but doesn't inflict RT. Normally that's a notable downside when comparing the two, but in a lot of cases I might prefer the enemy to attack since that means more opportunities at Radial Sweep and Spin Kick.		* '''Feint''': Free from the guild, but I'm undecided on whether I'd train it otherwise. I'm overall not a fan of war cries moving to stamina, but Gerrelle's Growl being among them is definitely one of the upsides. It costs less stamina than Feint, but doesn't inflict RT. Normally that's a notable downside when comparing the two, but in a lot of cases I might prefer the enemy to attack since that means more opportunities at Radial Sweep and Spin Kick.
	* '''Kick Specialization''': Some hunting grounds are more manageable with unarmed combat than a lance, and in those places Spin Kick shines.		* '''Kick Specialization''': Some hunting grounds or individual enemies are more manageable with unarmed combat than a lance, and in those places Spin Kick shines.
	* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.		* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
	* '''Spin Attack''': Free from the guild. Despite giving a brief boost to Dodging, I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise.		* '''Spin Attack''': Free from the guild. Despite giving a brief boost to Dodging, I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise.
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	* '''Surge of Strength''': Too classic an AS booster for me to forego, even though brawling and ranged don't need it. I do think that Surge is the kind of maneuver that demands either five ranks or none, as the recovery period is too long even at four ranks.		* '''Surge of Strength''': Too classic an AS booster for me to forego, even though brawling and ranged don't need it. I do think that Surge is the kind of maneuver that demands either five ranks or none, as the recovery period is too long even at four ranks.
	* '''Tackle''': Free from the guild. I'd still consider training it otherwise, for defense against patchwork flesh monstrosities if nothing else, but it's not especially amazing offensively coming from an elf.		* '''Tackle''': Free from the guild. I'd still consider training it otherwise, for defense against patchwork flesh monstrosities if nothing else, but it's not especially amazing offensively coming from an elf.
	* '''True Strike''': A forward-thinking choice. I don't think it's especially useful in the current game as it competes with weapon techniques for stamina usage, but it could be strong for hitting overleveled enemies in Ascension grounds.
	* '''Weapon Specialization''': Give me all the AS.		* '''Weapon Specialization''': Give me all the AS.
	* '''Whirling Dervish''': I used to prefer Executioner's Stance of the two, but heavy use of assaults is much less killer on stamina than heavy use of mstrikes. A multi-weapon build also plays better with Dervish.		* '''Whirling Dervish''': I used to prefer Executioner's Stance of the two, but heavy use of assaults is much less killer on stamina than heavy use of mstrikes. A multi-weapon build also plays better with Dervish.
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	Practically everything.		Practically everything.

	~~Coup~~ ~~de Grace was in the running and was the last cut I made. There's a non-zero chance it'll find its way back into my choices since it gives more AS than Seanette's Shout.~~ Trip and Vault Kick were ~~also~~ in ~~the~~ ~~running~~. If I end up taking any of ~~these~~, it'll probably happen because amazing custom maneuver messaging was released for one of them and I'll want it at the expense of some combination of ~~one~~ ~~or two ranks~~ of Combat Focus, ~~one~~ ~~or two ranks~~ of ~~Side~~ by ~~Side~~, one or two ranks of ~~True~~ ~~Strike~~, and ~~any~~ ~~number~~ of ranks of ~~Whirling~~ ~~Dervish~~.		True Strike, Trip, and Vault Kick were the last three cuts made. If I end up taking any of them, it'll probably happen because amazing custom maneuver messaging was released for one of them and I'll want it at the expense of some combination of a rank of Combat Focus, a rank of Coup de Grace, one or two ranks of Side by Side, and one or two ranks of Weapon Specialization.

	Lances and unarmed combat (and even ranged, to a lesser extent) prefer Evade Specialization to get their reactions going, and along with that goes Kick Specialization.		Lances and unarmed combat (and even ranged, to a lesser extent) prefer Evade Specialization to get their reactions going, and along with that goes Kick Specialization.
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	Griffin's Voice was my preferred martial stance before the changes so I could consistently keep up Horland's Holler, but that's no longer necessary. Some other warriors feel the opposite and now want Griffin's Voice after overlooking it before. I think that comes down to a playstyle difference; I'd almost never use Carn's Cry, for example, since I want the enemy attacking me so I can evade and react. By the same logic, I ''am'' interested in Horland's Holler, but even with max Griffin's Voice, the stamina cost is a bit too much to justify using it more than once in a while.		Griffin's Voice was my preferred martial stance before the changes so I could consistently keep up Horland's Holler, but that's no longer necessary. Some other warriors feel the opposite and now want Griffin's Voice after overlooking it before. I think that comes down to a playstyle difference; I'd almost never use Carn's Cry, for example, since I want the enemy attacking me so I can evade and react. By the same logic, I ''am'' interested in Horland's Holler, but even with max Griffin's Voice, the stamina cost is a bit too much to justify using it more than once in a while.

	Bearhug's Strength bonus is great, but the ~~maneuver~~ on ~~its~~ ~~own~~ is ~~better~~ ~~for~~ ~~larger~~ ~~races~~, and in any case it's not how I picture my character battling. Bull Rush is ~~better for larger races and, despite being~~ one of the best maneuvers in the game, ~~is a bit redundant for~~ lightly armored polearm warriors~~, who~~ already have Radial Sweep for area of effect knockdowns. Combat Toughness is likewise a great consideration for plate warriors, but less useful to robe warriors.		Bearhug's Strength bonus is great for the group, but the individual warrior doesn't need it if she already has Surge, and in any case it's not how I picture my character battling. Bull Rush is one of the best maneuvers in the game, but lightly armored polearm warriors already have Radial Sweep and (eventually) Elemental Wave for area of effect knockdowns. Combat Toughness is likewise a great consideration for plate warriors who have legitimate worries about getting plinked to death, but less useful to robe warriors whose deaths are more likely to crits.

	Headbutt would be useful, but isn't how I picture my character battling. Haymaker would be even more useful and ''is'' how I picture my character battling, but I still thought I had better options ~~like~~ Trip and Vault Kick.		Headbutt would be useful, but isn't how I picture my character battling. Haymaker would be even more useful and ''is'' how I picture my character battling, but I still thought I had better options. (Again, those are True Strike, Trip, and Vault Kick.)

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LEAFIARA at 22:06, 3 August 2021

2021-08-03T22:06:27Z

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LEAFIARA at 23:07, 25 July 2021

2021-07-25T23:07:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:07, 25 July 2021
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	I'll look into Spell Thieve if I find that I like going to spell sever hunting grounds on a rogue, but at that point the whole build would probably need to be reconsidered.		I'll look into Spell Thieve if I find that I like going to spell sever hunting grounds on a rogue, but at that point the whole build would probably need to be reconsidered.

			Feint is always at least a consideration, but seems redundant with Swiftkick also present.

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