Talk:Spellburst - Revision history

VANKRASN39: response

2018-05-07T20:25:50Z

response

VANKRASN39: VANKRASN39 moved page Talk:Spell burst to Talk:Spellburst: proper name

2018-05-07T20:00:23Z

VANKRASN39 moved page Talk:Spell burst to Talk:Spellburst: proper name

← Older revision	Revision as of 15:00, 7 May 2018
(No difference)

OM1E5GA: /* An update from Goat */

2017-12-21T05:48:49Z

An update from Goat

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:48, 21 December 2017
Line 129:		Line 129:

	With those changes, I think burst_calc numbers produce more consistent results based on spell base mana cost alone.		With those changes, I think burst_calc numbers produce more consistent results based on spell base mana cost alone.


			Ok, two things. First, please use four tilds (this character on the key next to the 1: ~ ) at the end of posts to talk pages to sign and date them. Second, shouldn't this entire talk page be transferred to it's own research page, since it's pretty obvious that's what it is. [[User:OM1E5GA\|OM1E5GA]] ([[User talk:OM1E5GA\|talk]]) 23:48, 20 December 2017 (CST)

GOAT at 19:32, 20 December 2017

2017-12-20T19:32:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:32, 20 December 2017
Line 113:		Line 113:

	[[User:MICHN18\|MICHN18]] ([[User talk:MICHN18\|talk]]) 12:46, 8 January 2016 (CST)		[[User:MICHN18\|MICHN18]] ([[User talk:MICHN18\|talk]]) 12:46, 8 January 2016 (CST)

			=== An update from Goat ===
			I did some testing a while back, and I was unable to find a +0.5 mana effect as described above. I did find that burst_calc relies on incorrect mana costs for non-native casts of some spells, mostly spells with variable costs based on spells known or the like. I forwarded spell-list.xml corrections for the following:

			102
			507
			618
			905
			913
			1010
			1019
			1610
			409
			1613

			With those changes, I think burst_calc numbers produce more consistent results based on spell base mana cost alone.

VANKRASN39: header levels

2017-03-16T19:46:04Z

header levels

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:46, 16 March 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	== Tracking Spell Burst Wearable Mana Beyond 1/2 of Level ==		== Tracking Spell Burst Wearable Mana Beyond 1/2 of Level ==

	== Preface ==		=== Preface ===

	I'm having my first experience with spell burst in Nelemar with my capped paladin so I figured I'd post my observations on here. I will train skills to incrementally increase wearable mana and track my ability to avoid spell burst while adding spells. Any discrepancies in wearable mana totals is caused by the value of skill bonus enhancives changing as the underlying skill increases in rank.		I'm having my first experience with spell burst in Nelemar with my capped paladin so I figured I'd post my observations on here. I will train skills to incrementally increase wearable mana and track my ability to avoid spell burst while adding spells. Any discrepancies in wearable mana totals is caused by the value of skill bonus enhancives changing as the underlying skill increases in rank.
Line 9:		Line 9:
	'''Addendum''' - In light of my switch to ;burst_calc mana tracking (see '''Intermission''', below) I should note that at the time I commenced my wiki formula testing my ;burst_calc limit mana was 57 and my ;burst_calc current mana was 47. I could not add any current mana without bursting until I reached limit mana 61, which was really more like 62 when you factor in that I was one rank of lore shy of 61.5 and I wear enhancives equivalent to slightly more than 0.5 limit mana.		'''Addendum''' - In light of my switch to ;burst_calc mana tracking (see '''Intermission''', below) I should note that at the time I commenced my wiki formula testing my ;burst_calc limit mana was 57 and my ;burst_calc current mana was 47. I could not add any current mana without bursting until I reached limit mana 61, which was really more like 62 when you factor in that I was one rank of lore shy of 61.5 and I wear enhancives equivalent to slightly more than 0.5 limit mana.

	== Baseline ==		=== Baseline ===

	406, 414, 506, 508, 509, 601, 202 = 50 mana.		406, 414, 506, 508, 509, 601, 202 = 50 mana.
Line 27:		Line 27:
	Replacing 202 with 503 results in spell burst. (+1.5 mana)		Replacing 202 with 503 results in spell burst. (+1.5 mana)

	== Testing - Wiki Formula ==		=== Testing - Wiki Formula ===

	I added skills such that I increased wearable mana in 1.1 mana increments. There was no change through 76 wearable mana.		I added skills such that I increased wearable mana in 1.1 mana increments. There was no change through 76 wearable mana.
Line 70:		Line 70:
	Adding 401 and 503 and 905 and 911 does not result in spell burst. (+23 mana '''!!!''')		Adding 401 and 503 and 905 and 911 does not result in spell burst. (+23 mana '''!!!''')

	== Intermission ==		=== Intermission ===

	In light of my review of ;burst_calc and Gib's PC thread dealing with it, I am switching to tracking ;burst_calc current mana against ;burst_calc limit mana. To get a more precise measurement I decided to add ranks of lore until I added 0.5 limit mana which conveniently only took one rank. In so doing I happened to notice that ;burst_calc does not factor in enhancive bonuses. Adding one rank of lore with my enhancives on took me to 61.5 but removing an enhancive that gave two ranks had no effect. I assume, however, that spell burst factors in enhancive bonuses and the issue with ;burst_calc is some coding problem. For your reference I am wearing enhancives that add slightly more than 0.5 limit mana.		In light of my review of ;burst_calc and Gib's PC thread dealing with it, I am switching to tracking ;burst_calc current mana against ;burst_calc limit mana. To get a more precise measurement I decided to add ranks of lore until I added 0.5 limit mana which conveniently only took one rank. In so doing I happened to notice that ;burst_calc does not factor in enhancive bonuses. Adding one rank of lore with my enhancives on took me to 61.5 but removing an enhancive that gave two ranks had no effect. I assume, however, that spell burst factors in enhancive bonuses and the issue with ;burst_calc is some coding problem. For your reference I am wearing enhancives that add slightly more than 0.5 limit mana.
Line 78:		Line 78:
	202, 401, 406, 414, 506, 507, 508, 509, 601, 905 and 911 totaling 69.5 current mana. This set does not burst with 61.5 limit mana. It didn't burst with 61 limit mana either, but given my enhancives I would say the real break point is probably closer to 62 limit mana.		202, 401, 406, 414, 506, 507, 508, 509, 601, 905 and 911 totaling 69.5 current mana. This set does not burst with 61.5 limit mana. It didn't burst with 61 limit mana either, but given my enhancives I would say the real break point is probably closer to 62 limit mana.

	== Testing - ;burst_calc ==		=== Testing - ;burst_calc ===

	61.5 limit mana		61.5 limit mana
Line 94:		Line 94:
	Adding 211 and adding 503 and adding 402 results in spellburst. (86 current mana)		Adding 211 and adding 503 and adding 402 results in spellburst. (86 current mana)

	== Summary and Conclusion ==		=== Summary and Conclusion ===

	For what follows I will only deal with ;burst_calc mana. My initial attempts using the wiki formula were needlessly confusing and I assume that anyone trying to use my research as a guide will rely on ;burst_calc instead of manual calculations anyway. When I refer to "limit" mana and "current" mana I am referring to the two sections of the ;burst_calc readout by the same names. Because I wear a few enhancives that impact the spell burst calculation my advice is to add 0.5 limit mana to each of the thresholds described below. While I was able to increase my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments, because of the limited number of spells that have +0.5 current mana added to their actual mana cost in the ;burst_calc formula, I decided to add outside spells in 1 current mana increments.		For what follows I will only deal with ;burst_calc mana. My initial attempts using the wiki formula were needlessly confusing and I assume that anyone trying to use my research as a guide will rely on ;burst_calc instead of manual calculations anyway. When I refer to "limit" mana and "current" mana I am referring to the two sections of the ;burst_calc readout by the same names. Because I wear a few enhancives that impact the spell burst calculation my advice is to add 0.5 limit mana to each of the thresholds described below. While I was able to increase my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments, because of the limited number of spells that have +0.5 current mana added to their actual mana cost in the ;burst_calc formula, I decided to add outside spells in 1 current mana increments.

MICHN18: /* Summary and Conclusion */

2016-01-08T18:46:47Z

Summary and Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:46, 8 January 2016
Line 100:		Line 100:
	When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells totaling 69.5 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana without bursting. In all cases, adding even a single additional current mana resulted in spell burst.		When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells totaling 69.5 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana without bursting. In all cases, adding even a single additional current mana resulted in spell burst.

	Based on the foregoing, I believe that spell burst wearable mana beyond 1/2 of level		Based on the foregoing, I believe that spell burst wearable mana beyond 1/2 of level is explained as a series of discrete thresholds. At no time in my research did I observe any gradual increase in wearable mana.

			I found three thresholds:

			47 current mana - presumably the result of the linear increase in wearable mana described by Gib in his original research
⚫	[[User:MICHN18\|MICHN18]] ([[User talk:MICHN18\|talk]]) 15:04, 5 January 2016 (CST)

			69.5 current mana - unlocked upon reaching 61.5 limit mana

			85 current mana - unlocked upon reaching 76 limit mana

			Since my research was conducted using a 7.7M EXP half-elf paladin I am not in a position to search for the next threshold, but I feel comfortable concluding that there are more thresholds. I take no position on the accuracy of ;burst_calc or Gib's research more broadly. If nothing else, ;burst_calc is an adequate tool to measure spell burst thresholds and, barring some unforeseen racial or professional component, can be used by anyone to implement my research.

		⚫	[[User:MICHN18\|MICHN18]] ([[User talk:MICHN18\|talk]]) 12:46, 8 January 2016 (CST)

MICHN18: /* Summary and Conclusion */

2016-01-08T18:36:47Z

Summary and Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:36, 8 January 2016
Line 100:		Line 100:
	When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells totaling 69.5 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana without bursting. In all cases, adding even a single additional current mana resulted in spell burst.		When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells totaling 69.5 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana without bursting. In all cases, adding even a single additional current mana resulted in spell burst.

	Based on the foregoing, I believe that spell burst beyond		Based on the foregoing, I believe that spell burst wearable mana beyond 1/2 of level

MICHN18: /* Summary and Conclusion */

2016-01-08T18:36:21Z

Summary and Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:36, 8 January 2016
Line 98:		Line 98:
	For what follows I will only deal with ;burst_calc mana. My initial attempts using the wiki formula were needlessly confusing and I assume that anyone trying to use my research as a guide will rely on ;burst_calc instead of manual calculations anyway. When I refer to "limit" mana and "current" mana I am referring to the two sections of the ;burst_calc readout by the same names. Because I wear a few enhancives that impact the spell burst calculation my advice is to add 0.5 limit mana to each of the thresholds described below. While I was able to increase my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments, because of the limited number of spells that have +0.5 current mana added to their actual mana cost in the ;burst_calc formula, I decided to add outside spells in 1 current mana increments.		For what follows I will only deal with ;burst_calc mana. My initial attempts using the wiki formula were needlessly confusing and I assume that anyone trying to use my research as a guide will rely on ;burst_calc instead of manual calculations anyway. When I refer to "limit" mana and "current" mana I am referring to the two sections of the ;burst_calc readout by the same names. Because I wear a few enhancives that impact the spell burst calculation my advice is to add 0.5 limit mana to each of the thresholds described below. While I was able to increase my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments, because of the limited number of spells that have +0.5 current mana added to their actual mana cost in the ;burst_calc formula, I decided to add outside spells in 1 current mana increments.

	When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells ~~up to~~ 69.5 current mana. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana. ~~Wearing~~ ~~outside~~ ~~spells~~ ~~totaling~~ 86 current mana ~~results~~ in spell burst.		When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells totaling 69.5 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana without bursting. In all cases, adding even a single additional current mana resulted in spell burst.


			Based on the foregoing, I believe that spell burst beyond

MICHN18 at 18:32, 8 January 2016

2016-01-08T18:32:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:32, 8 January 2016
Line 93:		Line 93:

	Adding 211 and adding 503 and adding 402 results in spellburst. (86 current mana)		Adding 211 and adding 503 and adding 402 results in spellburst. (86 current mana)

			== Summary and Conclusion ==

			For what follows I will only deal with ;burst_calc mana. My initial attempts using the wiki formula were needlessly confusing and I assume that anyone trying to use my research as a guide will rely on ;burst_calc instead of manual calculations anyway. When I refer to "limit" mana and "current" mana I am referring to the two sections of the ;burst_calc readout by the same names. Because I wear a few enhancives that impact the spell burst calculation my advice is to add 0.5 limit mana to each of the thresholds described below. While I was able to increase my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments, because of the limited number of spells that have +0.5 current mana added to their actual mana cost in the ;burst_calc formula, I decided to add outside spells in 1 current mana increments.

			When I began my testing I had 57 limit mana, however I was only able to wear outside spells totaling 47 current mana without bursting. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 61.5 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 61.5 limit mana. Once I reached 61.5 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside spells up to 69.5 current mana. I added skills such that I increased my limit mana in 0.5 mana increments until I reached 76 limit mana. I was unable to wear any additional outside spells until I reached 76 limit mana. Once I reached 76 limit mana I was able to wear additional outside up to 85 current mana. Wearing outside spells totaling 86 current mana results in spell burst.

MICHN18: /* Testing - ;burst_calc */

2016-01-08T18:07:55Z

Testing - ;burst_calc

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:07, 8 January 2016
Line 89:		Line 89:

	76 limit mana		76 limit mana

	Replacing 911 with 712 and adding 211 does not result in spell burst. (82 current mana)

	Replacing 911 with 712 and adding 211 and adding 503 does not result in spell burst. (85 current mana)		Replacing 911 with 712 and adding 211 and adding 503 does not result in spell burst. (85 current mana)