Talk:Lore chart

Do we still need the "in progress" banner? - Vicimer 4/21/20

Fantastic job on the lore charts, Allereli!!! But I'm a little concerned about your mental well-being. You'll need a vaction after this :)

As if you don't have enough to do...

I have more complete/corrected data for several spell Damage Factor bonuses. I'll leave it up to you to decide the best way to incorporate this info either within the charts or as an appendix to the article. The first seven spells (111, 713, 510, 903, 906, 907, 908) have identical bonuses. Hand of Tonis (505) is unique. The last three spells (518, 901, 910), affected by two lores (water and air), have identical bonuses to each other but differ from the first seven.

Thanks again for all the hard work. Mark 13:06, 6 April 2014 (EDT)

Thank you, love it! Anything else you see that is wrong or questionable, please post here, or if pasting things here is too annoying (because wiki formatting is annoying), feel free to send jpgs, docs, xls or anything to my play.net email. You can send a picture of handwritten notes and if I can read it, I'll use it. Obviously I'm not even done with the first draft and I especially need to go back to the 100s and 200s as I started with those and have developed my formatting vs. Carabele's as I've gone along. I'll probably finish the base work before going back and adding your additions so it might be a few weeks. I'll especially appreciate any minor mental lore input as I'll have to do that from scratch. There are 17 matches for the word "lore" on the play.net page for the circle.

Another issue I'm stewing with is I'm thinking of reorganizing the charts so that it flows better from elemental to spirit to mental but bards really mess that up.

re: Mental well-being. I do need to pace myself better and do smaller chunks at a time. "Lucky" for this project I can't really do much else but sit right now and wait for the epidural I had on Friday to work its way out. Vanessa 15:18, 6 April 2014 (EDT)

Minor Mental. I've posted several lore bonus tables which can be found in the individual spell articles (see 1201, 1202, 1209, 1213, 1214, 1215 and 1217). Spell 1205 is self-explanatory. Quantitative lore bonus effects for the following spells are currently unknown 1207, 1210, 1211, 1219, 1235. Mark 20:21, 6 April 2014 (EDT)

Heal/Harm (1101) - Not sure if you have this info. I had worked out the spell's damage formula and Manip adds +1 HP damage per seed 1. Mark 09:19, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

Nope, will add, thanks. I freely admit to doing zero number crunching in game. Formatting tables is more fun for me than doing that. Also, I made Empathic Assault follow the 3-tiered DF bonus pattern that you pointed out for 111, 713, 510, 903, 907, 906 and 908. Is that right? VANKRASN39 11:06, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

That's correct for empathic assault. I forgot to include it in the list. Mark 11:50, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

Shift

Symbol of the Proselyte (340) SL, Blessings bonus table can be found on the spell page. Mark 17:49, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

any ideas on specifics of empathic link? VANKRASN39 23:55, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

Had a revelation to put in anchors. Currently there is 1, but now you can Lore chart#106. Handy for links from spell page VANKRASN39 01:44, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

Not sure on empathic link. Unable to link to an additional target with 9 ranks. Highly speculative but it could be 1 additional target per 25 ranks. That would be 8 additional targets with 200 ranks. Mark 13:21, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

probably a good guess. I re-did the cleric chart. I wasn't missing 1 spell, I was missing at least 3 and just about every other one has been rewritten/reorganized. It was pretty discouraging to discover how much was wrong. VANKRASN39 23:30, 11 April 2014 (EDT)

Empathic link: 1st additional target at 10 ranks (50 skill) ML, Telepathy. Mark 07:35, 13 April 2014 (EDT)

I don't understand the Force Orb formula: 8 Base damage + trunc[(endroll - 100) * .050)] + ML, Manipulation ranks/2 (seed 1) + Crush Critical Damage. each seed only gives a .5 boost? does it ignore the seed and give continuous benefit? Thanks VANKRASN39 23:08, 13 April 2014 (EDT)

It doesn't ignore the seed exactly. There is a lore table in the 1201 article that I included when I posted the formula. It's 8 base damage + 1 damage per 20 endrolls (DF 0.050) >100 + 1 damage per seed bonus but the seed bonus has a 2x lore rank requirement. In addition to the initial damage there will always be an accompanying crush critical with its injuries and damage.

Just to be clear, it's not .5 damage per seed. For example, with 78 lore ranks the seed 1 bonus would normally be 12. The bonus with 1201 isn't 12/2 = 6, it is 78/2 = 39 lore ranks which is, using seed 1, a bonus of 8. Mark 23:42, 13 April 2014 (EDT)

That seems a little overcomplicated vs just about every other calculation in the game. is there any other place in the game where a rank only counts partial toward seed? VANKRASN39 01:09, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

lol It wasn't an easy formula to crack. You want another one? You need look no further than the next spell on the list, 1202. That's also a doozy. I put tables up on the spell page so it's a bit easier to do the ASG calculations. Mark 01:37, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

have either of those been GM confirmed? VANKRASN39 11:30, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

1202 lore info comes from the official spell description. I've done extensive testing to confirm 1201. On the official forums go to Magic Spells/Systems --> Minor Mental Circle --> Posts #209 and 210. Note my comment on Force Orbs relationship to Heal/Harm.Mark 12:10, 14 April 2014 (EDT)

shift

FYI slowdown mainly due to CHE commitments VANKRASN39 11:54, 15 April 2014 (EDT)

I am desperately hoping to make some progress this weekend. Stay tuned, I'll likely have questions. VANKRASN39 15:40, 25 April 2014 (EDT)

Purify: what does this mean? The mana regeneration rate will be set to 3 + seed 2 summation of Spiritual Lore, Blessings. The maximum mana lore bonus will be set to 10 + (5 * seed 5 summation of Spiritual Lore, Blessings). If the existing effectiveness is less than the Paladin's skill set, then the stats are not affected, but the food is no longer spoiled. VANKRASN39 12:01, 7 May 2014 (EDT)

Guiding Light: The spell description say there is a max 75 total swings in the additional spell training over 8. Can the lore training bring this max above 75? Or is the max 75 in any combination of the two factors? Can it be 75 swings total from the spell ranks, plus max 202 for lore training (not counting enhancives)? Edit: is there any chance of a 2nd flare without any lore training? VANKRASN39 13:01, 7 May 2014 (EDT)

Guard the Meek: Does the casting Paladin not get the DS bonus from additional spell ranks? the spell description is very awkwardly worded. VANKRASN39 17:58, 7 May 2014 (EDT)

Purify: I believe these are caps. When the bread is created, the mana regen rate (the additional mana pulse you receive from eating the bread) is determined by MjS ranks and the max mana bonus (the increased total mana) is based on SL, Blessing ranks of the creator of the bread. When the bread is purified the paladin's stats are applied to both the regen rate/max mana bonuses when the original bonuses are higher than the paladin's. If the bread creator's stats would result in lower bonuses than the paladin's, then the creator's lower bonus applies (If the existing effectiveness...)

Guiding Light: 75 swings + additional swings from lore training.

Guard the Meek: Paladin (only) requires lore training to increase his/her DS bonus above +15. Group members' DS bonus is capped at +20 each from spell ranks and are not affected by the paladin's lore training.

I think there is a base% (% unknown) double flare chance without lore but haven't independently confirmed this. Mark 09:49, 9 May 2014 (EDT)

I came here noticing that that Rapid Healing (1116) isn't listed on the lore chart, but I think it is affected by lore training somehow. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 02:04, 7 April 2020 (CDT)

Tips for Updating

• Make sure the "rowspan=#" is correct. This is located in the first line of every spell and determines how many rows of the chart the spell needs. Both the first and second column need to be the same.
• For new spells, a <span id="spell #"></span> is needed to set the anchor for the spell. I put this in the light blue line above the start of new spells. For multiple single lore effect spells not divided by a new line, each new spell span id is put around the next lore column title.

Protection

Greeting wiki editors - this page is protected, but has not had any work done since the import. I propose unlocking the page so the broader community can update this helpful resource. VERSIN (talk) 15:32, 5 June 2018 (CDT)

The future lore chart will not continue in this format. Please refer to each spell page and lore skill page for current lore information. VANKRASN39 (talk) 16:14, 5 June 2018 (CDT)

Why not? I find it very helpful for having all the lore thresholds in one place and deciding between different types of lores, something that I cannot easily do via each spell and lore page. Since this page is not official documentation and is several years outdated, I think allowing it be edited is sensible. VERSIN (talk) 19:17, 5 June 2018 (CDT)

Adding in my two cents, for wanting to keep future lore charts in this sort of format. It's very handy to be able to cross-reference the different lores, with their training break-points, all in one location. CLTIDBALL (talk) 20:54, 5 June 2018 (CDT)

This lore chart, as outdated as it is, is still helpful to me in even "knowing where to start" thinking about how to train lores. I don't want to see it go away, and would like to see future lore charts designed similarly. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 01:51, 7 April 2020 (CDT)

I agree it's a useful chart until there's a more comprehensive replacement, but as far as I know only GMs can unlock wiki pages so it isn't something players/editors can work on at the moment. ZHOUY1 (talk) 23:12, 6 June 2018 (CDT)

Ah since it was locked by a moderator over a year and a half ago I assumed it could also be unlocked. I will see if it can be unlocked. VERSIN (talk) 12:58, 7 June 2018 (CDT)