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{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1436
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:18 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>> And not exactly. It's pretty sustainable use. Wizards don't have a one time boost of any kind though.''

And technically... 413-Elemental Saturation provide a CS 'boost' (through reduced TD) that can persist through multiple casts for a fraction of the mana.

Sadly I think the spell implementation is super weak (it shouldn't require a warding check to reduce warding) and I only have 75 ranks in the 400 circle at present so it doesn't help me with my sentry '80% problem' at present.

But suppose for the sake of discussion that I spent my remaining spell ranks training on the 400 circle bringing my Minor Elt. up to 101 ranks.

Now my Minor Elt CS would be 535 (the same as my immolation cast CS). With the -25 penalty the sentry would receive against 413 when I cast it I would basically have a 100% chance to cast this spell on a sentry. With my current EMC training (200 ranks) and Fire Lore training (24 ranks) the sentry would now have a -22 warding penalty against my immolation spell for the next 1000 seconds (if I am reading the spell information correctly). So now my immolation cast is at ~100% chance to strike as well!

A near 100% solution with 2 casts if I decide to train in that direction. And less mana for both spells than the 40 point CS booster.

The additional downside to 413 being that I cannot pre-prep my 'booster' spell. I have to be in the room for both casts vs. other boosters that can be cast in safety (another reason to remove the warding check from 413 in my opinion).

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1437
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:37 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>And so forth. Though it does look like "count on one hand" is more historically true before that. The last two days have been anomalous''

I'm sure the last two days haven't been anomalous. Perhaps it would be useful to look back before people largely stopped playing their characters altogether for data (pre-SimuCon).

Whether people use it frequently or not, it is an accessible option to those spiritual pure classes. And spiritual TDs aren't balanced to compensate for these extra boosts, nor from 240 or 340, the way that elemental TDs already factor maxed out 425 into the equation.

''>A near 100% solution with 2 casts if I decide to train in that direction. And less mana for both spells than the 40 point CS booster.''

A pushdown is not a booster, particularly when you have to successfully ward the creature to receive the pushdown to begin with. And 340 does not cost 40 mana per use.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1438
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:42 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
I think I read the spell wrong. The sentry would get a -19 ward penalty against my 413 cast due to my EMC training and then would have a -28 warding penalty (-25 plus and additional -3 due to my fire lore training) against my immolation spell. Pretty much the same result in my example but wanted to correct the numbers.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1439
| author = ZENDADA
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:47 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
412 Weapon Deflection with enough Earth Lore looks like a nice mass disabler that virtually has a 100% success rate.

Chad, player of a few
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 144
| author = LADYFLEUR
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:35 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
''>The surface of water can now be frozen when Ice Patch is cast, which will mimic the Water Walking (112) spell for that one room. This affect applies to all players as long as the ice patch is in the room (Not just the caster or the caster's group, although keep in mind that ice patches don't last very long once the caster is gone).''

Excuse me if I'm missing the obvious, but how exactly does this help when one has to walk INTO the room first to cast the spell, when the purpose behind using water walking is to counteract the environmental effects of the room BEFORE entry? For example, if I'm walking on the EN trail and go through the swamp, this means the wizard will have to be the one to suffer the RT in each swamp room, then cast ice patch for any followers? This seems useless, as everyone in the party will have to wait out the same RT in any case for the wizard to move ahead for each step.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1440
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:48 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>> A pushdown is not a booster, particularly when you have to successfully ward the creature to receive the pushdown to begin with. And 340 does not cost 40 mana per use.''

1) We are in agreement that the spell can be improved! Would the removal of the warding check on the initial cast address your available booster concerns? It would for me.

2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1441
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:50 PM PST
| subject = Pures as utility characters
}}
It seems that the trend in the nerfs has been to preserve pre-cap wizard abilities as utility characters at the cost of losing more than necessary potential power at the post-cap level.

This doesn't exist for any of the other pures, so why is this the case for wizards?

Both clerics and empaths require the character to be present to receive lore-based benefits of group or other-cast 211, 215, 219, 117, 303, 307, and 310. Clerics and empaths obviously need to be present to raise and heal others.

Sorcerers require active hunting to access their ensorcell utility function.

Wizards don't have to be hunted at all to enchant, yet this results in having to pay the price of potential for item destruction and excessive temper times based on the large numbers of pocket enchanters that exist.

Wizards are mainly used as spell bots, as wizard spells have historically been sold off the shelf at nearly every merchant on a much larger scale than any other major spiritual or profession circle spells. Wizards can still be used as Rapid Fire bots outside warcamps without even stepping foot inside or being equivalent level.

Why can't wizard balancing first take into account those who actually play the profession instead of protecting the use of wizard abilities for all other classes?
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1442
| author = GS4-FINROS
| date = on 01/26/2016 06:59 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>I'm sure the last two days haven't been anomalous. Perhaps it would be useful to look back before people largely stopped playing their characters altogether for data (pre-SimuCon).''

Happily, as the one who actually has access to the data, I'm in a position to know what is anomalous and what isn't. The spell tends to be bimodal. It usually gets used less than 10 times per day (frequently less than 5), or gets used 30-40 times per day. Getting used 10-20 times per day is more rare than either of those circumstances. In either case, "handful of times per day" is a quite reasonable estimate.

Just for giggles, the number of casts of 506 is about the same this past week as it was before the changes. And well before potential changes were announced, for that matter.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1443
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:03 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Out of mild curiosity, how many times per day is 413 cast on average vs. the other CS booster spells?

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1444
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:09 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>1) We are in agreement that the spell can be improved! Would the removal of the warding check on the initial cast address your available booster concerns? It would for me.''

The spell can certainly be improved, but then I worry that it would no longer be considered a "booster" and TDs would be adjusted across the board accordingly since it is a minor circle spell.

''>2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.''

Even if it was still considered just a booster and not a must-have, it's still far more expensive than <6.5 mana per use of 340 for spiritualists. I'm not sure if you are aware that you can get 6+ charges per cast of 340, and that mana can be expended prior to the hunt.

I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.

At the end of the day, few people wander into a room of post-cap creatures looking to take on a huge swarm at once. What all the other pures can do, and wizards used to be able to do, is sufficiently contain and finish off a swarm if it happens to emerge in your room of 1 creature before you have to abandon the fight and run off.

Wizards used to be able to kill quickly enough 515 and 0CT such that unexpected swarms aren't issues. Wizards used to be able to rely on 519 to either outright disable or significantly damage, if not outright kill, creatures.

Going back to your point above, 340 is not just a "booster", it is the panic button in combination with 316 or 135. 240 is the offensive combat booster and effectively guarantees an instant kill in combination with 1115 or 317.

Sorcerers have 717 and if all else fails, 720 when the task is to kill or be killed.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1445
| author = BHTM
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:10 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
I'd be curious to know what the least cast spell in the game is if you have that information? Or maybe the bottom 3.

-Richard/Fjalar.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1446
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:15 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>>The day that Methais graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.''

Heh. Good cine-ref. Not mainstream, but still kitschy.

And yeah, I know what you did - even agreed. But it undermined the point, thanks. Think Wednesday, next.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1447
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:16 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.''
No, it is not the same at all. A pushdown is NOT a booster because it has a hard floor of -25. A booster on the other hand, can be stacked with other boosters and create sufficient enough warding margin such that the effects of being warded by a CS spell are dramatically increased. See 240, where the spirit slayer boosts are boosts on top of the boosted/enhanced base caster CS.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1448
| author = GS4-FINROS
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:18 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Out of mild curiosity, how many times per day is 413 cast on average vs. the other CS booster spells?''

413 is classified as an attack spell rather than a booster. In any case, usually only a few dozen times per day. Of all the attack spells used by wizards (and ignoring 525), 412, 915, and 409 are used by far the least with typically only a handful of casts per day.

Before anyone gets any ideas, I'm not about to launch into a spell-by-spell discussion of what gets used and doesn't get used. And also before anyone asks -- yes, this is also one of the things we consider when looking at spells that may need improvements.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1449
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:19 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>>I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.''

While I still don't agree with this, as theory does not equal practice and I'm very disinterested in 100% for shore anything in the lands (which as you noted simply gets adjusted until it's no longer 100% sure), I'm going to stop my responding to the belabored point, and ask a simple question.

What about Time Stop (950)?

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 145
| author = ERYKK2
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:39 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
== MECHANICS ==The surface of water can now be frozen when Ice Patch is cast, which will mimic the Water Walking (112) spell for that one room. This affect applies to all players as long as the ice patch is in the room (Not just the caster or the caster's group, although keep in mind that ice patches don't last very long once the caster is gone).Additionally, the targeted version of the spell was updated to instantly deal cold critical damage. The purpose of this is to hopefully make the setup of using Minor Cold less clunky for water mages.Questions? Comments? Love? Hate? CANDY? All of those things are welcome.(Note: I'm not going to give a list of rooms that this affects. Try it out and see. If you do find areas that aren't affected by this that you think should be, let me know!)~ Konacon

How about a self-cast version that mimics 112 for a standard spell duration? With losing haste, this would be a nice addition when walking through swamps. Having to cast it in every single swamp room (On the trail from WL to EN for example) is clunky.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1450
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:23 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>(which as you noted simply gets adjusted until it's no longer 100% sure)''

No, this only happens for elementalists and 425. Creatures are absolutely not balanced around 240 or 340 being used on a regular basis, even though they are. Even if you choose not to hunt or equip/train yourself that way, does not mean the possibility should not exist for wizards as it does for every other pure.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1451
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
No.

Do'phion
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1452
| author = GS4-KONACON
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''> I'd be curious to know what the least cast spell in the game is if you have that information? Or maybe the bottom 3.''

Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.

~ Konacon
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1453
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
And, because I think it's both telling and funny. . .


. . .

. . .

. . .

waiting. . .


Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1454
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:25 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>What about Time Stop (950)?''

A 1-3x a day offensive spell of any kind is essentially useless or irrelevant when talking about sustainable combat.

Note that both 1150 and 350 are simply utility spells because a level 50 spell shouldn't impact something you actually have to do on a regular basis, instead of in a true emergency.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1455
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:28 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Thank you.

''>>A 1-3x a day offensive spell of any kind is essentially useless or irrelevant when talking about sustainable combat.''

I disagree. If 80% plus of the use cases are covered, that means we need something to deal with less than 20%. And if it does turn out to be 'no mistake, no miss, can't be stepped around', it will be more powerful than anything else available to any pure, in my view.

But, you do raise an excellent point about other high mana sustainable utilities. That might be something worth factoring for, too. Thanks for reminding me.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1457
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:29 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>>And if it does turn out to be 'no mistake, no miss, can't be stepped around', it will be more powerful than anything else available to any pure, in my view.''

Err. . . let me amend that quickly before someone else points out cleric get out of jail free (while rescuing? NOT) card.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1458
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:32 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Err. . . let me amend that quickly before someone else points out cleric get out of jail free (while rescuing? NOT) card.''

Kindly don't forget about that 76-88% effective 716 as illustrated in my other thread. Oh right, both of those are under level 20 spells. Why are we forfeiting our single level 50 spot to achieve the same or lesser functionality as any other pure again?
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1459
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:34 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.''

I wonder if this could possibly be because major spiritual spells are among the most protected in the lands and are rarely sold off the shelf like all of the other wizard spells of all circles? Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells.

This seems to be yet another case of punishing wizards with excessively punitive nerfs because of the prevalence of pocket mages while doing nothing but protecting and further encouraging the raising of pocket mages at the expense of post-cap power after the nerfing is done.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 146
| author = GOLDENOAK2
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:43 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
''<>''

I could see it being useful in maelstrom bay if you have the mana and just want to waste it. Personally, swimming would probably be cheaper than recasting every room...but since its a free upgrade its all good. Say, would this mean you could drag a body through some of the watery isolated areas that were undraggable before...Like Maelstrom Bay?

also if it could be a floating iceburg you could ride...Booyah! I have a magic Island...neener neener!

Tell familiar drag island north. Get to work minion!
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1460
| author = GS4-KONACON
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:35 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''> I wonder if this could possibly be because major spiritual spells are among the most protected in the lands and are rarely sold off the shelf like all of the other wizard spells of all circles?''

As much as I would like your reason to be the reason why this is true, it is not. It is because the spells simply aren't used.

''> Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells.''

Empathic healing spells are not anywhere near the bottom 3.

~ Konacon
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1461
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:51 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>> I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.''

Okay. At least I see where some of the perspective difference are. Thanks for clarifying!

I guess where we disagree is that I see the current implementation of RapidFire as a panic button and booster where I guess you see it as... something else? That doesn't mean there isn't opportunity for improvement here though. Looking back at the list of group disablers I posted I would happily drop most of our group disablers in exchange for something with a bit more kick.

''>> Wizards used to be able to rely on 519 to either outright disable or significantly damage, if not outright kill, creatures.''

As someone who used immolation as a staple disabler spell prior to the changes, I honestly feel the spell is still able to disable effectively even with the reduced chance to kill. Agreed that it isn't what it once was as a primary hunting / killing spell.

So I think we all agree there are opportunities for improvement / enhancement of wizards at this point. A lot was taken away with very little given back. Two main hunting styles were pretty much trashed without any significant improvements or benefits to offset this. I'm disappointed on many levels as well even though I'm trying to keep an open mind about the changes. That said, let's identify what is working, what isn't working, and see what we can do to improve things. I think it is important that we are both accurate and specific in what we are saying isn't working if we expect to see any improvements made though.

And point taken on 340, I read up on the spell after you posted it didn't take 40 mana per use.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1462
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 07:58 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>So I think we all agree there are opportunities for improvement / enhancement of wizards at this point. A lot was taken away with very little given back. Two main hunting styles were pretty much trashed without any significant improvements or benefits to offset this. I'm disappointed on many levels as well even though I'm trying to keep an open mind about the changes.''

I agree with all of this. Particularly, the emphasis should be on preserving power ceilings at the post-cap level as much as possible, as is still the case with every other pure class, before protecting all the pocket mages and enchanters who don't even have to hunt anything dangerous to get by. When someone has 13m+ exp, they should be supremely powerful, not simply marginally more so than the 7.5m exp freshly capped or overtrained level 90 wizard.

The 515 cooldown, in particular, needs to be revisited at the post-cap and enhanced level. It's a severe nerf from the first nerf.

Please make the profession fun to play again at the post-cap level and not a more fun combat strategy to 515 some other pure and watch them demolish the room with cheaper and more effective spells instead.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1463
| author = PFLATS
| date = on 01/26/2016 08:02 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.''

Oooh, I like this game.

Hmmm, I'm gonna go with:

Cry for Help (1116)
Frenzy (216)
and uh...
Single target Interference (212)

''>Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells.''
I can't think of the last time my empath got a cleanup. They're harder to come by these days unless you're fastidious about stopping Troll's Blood when you come back to town.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1464
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 08:07 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Empathic healing spells are not anywhere near the bottom 3.''

This is probably a fruitless discussion, but I would guess the lack of usage of many spells in other profession circles is due to the fact that the other 3 pures still rely on a handful of super boosted and enhanced CS spells to get the instant kill done. Most people hunt as quickly as possible.

The problem is that now wizards have been given more "flavor", yet all of the combined options still don't result in as effective a kill or hunt as any of the other pures can achieve at the post-cap level due to the limitations of attrition-based bolting vs. what excessive warding margin can achieve. The power disparity is now significant, while pre-nerf wizards used to be able to more or less accomplish the same thing in different ways.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1465
| author = AMMINAR
| date = on 01/26/2016 08:10 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Cry for Help (1116)Frenzy (216)and uh...Single target Interference (212)

Those were my guesses, too! Although personally I use 212 more often than 217 (which is still not very often at all).

But I'm very surprised 330 didn't make the bottom 3.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1466
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/26/2016 08:11 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Again, the fact that many post-cap wizards see war maging as the least punitive option left to us is discouraging. The fact is, effective CS spells can be controlled, trained for, and enhanced to guarantee success for all other pures. Likewise, aimed shots are something that can be trained and controlled.

Random, attrition-based bolts and maneuver-based disablers both rely far too heavily on luck to be satisfactory to me post-cap. A post-cap wizard should have more control than ever over the effectiveness of their bolts and disablers, not still have to hope and pray, while none of the other pures has to do that for anything barring a fumble.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1467
| author = ROLFARD
| date = on 01/26/2016 08:27 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Untrammel, living spell, and empathy?
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1468
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 09:16 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>>Please make the profession fun to play again at the post-cap level and not a more fun combat strategy to 515 some other pure and watch them demolish the room with cheaper and more effective spells instead.''

While I don't agree with some of what I'm going to call (rightly or no) anecdotal information sharing - in particular the warmage is the least punitive post-cap path as declared by the masses of wizards (well post-cap, I can and do use either quite well, thank you) - I will say this:

I do absolutely agree with the motive behind the quoted plea. Fun is and should be one of the more enduring traits we should aspire to, at all levels.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1469
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/26/2016 09:19 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
I'ma roll with

1) Untrammel,
2) Darkness (safe bet to freebie here)
3) Cry for Help

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 147
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:43 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
I'm pretty sure you suffer the effects when trying to leave the room. So you can enter each room, cast the spell, then move on to the next room without suffering the effects.

-- Robert

"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1471
| author = FIREPHOENIX
| date = on 01/26/2016 10:12 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
Uhm. It's an escape/emergency button, like you've posted and asked for or stated didn't exist.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1472
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 01/27/2016 06:13 AM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
I won't argue with you if you feel that rapid fire and immolate were overpowered. But your desire to see wizards get their comeuppance shouldn't override your ability to reason. You know this game has poor balance. It always has. Don't blame players and wish for other classes to receive poor balancing decisions that detract from the overall product. It's self-destructive.

The fact is they took what was previously a hunting staple and apparently turned it into an "emergency disabler" - of which we actually have many, last I checked? I don't see that immolate currently serves any purpose at all. If I wanted to knock something down and prevent it from attacking I can do that to everything in the area for less mana using any number of spells available to the wizard class. We didn't need a disabler. We did need a hunting staple to give me something other than firing off one bolt after another endlessly.

There must exist a balance between "so overpowered you never use anything else" and "so weak and costly that you never really use it." We're really starting to accumulate in that latter category!

~Taverkin
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1473
| author = TRIPLEGAME226
| date = on 01/27/2016 09:43 AM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
''>Heh. Good cine-ref. Not mainstream, but still kitschy''

WAT

https://youtu.be/GlhOUyy4wbs
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1474
| author = RISHIB1
| date = on 01/27/2016 10:45 AM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
1) Cry for Help
2) Empathic Link (so infrequently used that everyone forgot it exists!)
3) Frenzy

Doug, Untrammel is a staple defensive spell that is casted in mana spellup if you have the requisite lore now. :) (dispel fodder)

I don't know that the comparisons to other pures are helping any here, except maybe the request for a one-time CS booster and/or Saturation no longer requiring a warding check?

Rishi
- Player of Kembal



Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."


[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)]
A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1475
| author = PFLATS
| date = on 01/27/2016 02:20 PM PST
| subject = Re: Immolation (519)
}}
I had Empathic Link on my list instead of Interference for a while, but it's such a cool (if frustrating to use) spell that I figure someone out there has to be using it to hunt. Right? Maybe?
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1476
| author = DRAFIX
| date = on 01/27/2016 03:30 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
So, wonderful mechanics implementation team, now that all the complaints and the mood has died down to a dull grumble, has there been any consideration to adding evoke version of 515?
Giving wizards the the 0 cast RT proc version when evoked, so that they can take advantage of the lore effects for non channeled spells (which is a lot of them).
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1477
| author = AMCPENS
| date = on 01/28/2016 08:43 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I'd rather get a 1 second cast time, but with no cool down for 515. I also believe that 515 should be self cast. Why is wasn't to begin with is the mystery....
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1478
| author = TRIPLEGAME226
| date = on 01/28/2016 09:17 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I'll never understand any spell that isn't imbeddable but still castable on other players without requiring the caster to be present for it to stick.

If RF were to be made self cast though, I think it should only apply to combat spells. There's no harm in rapid fire utility spells being used by other classes.

~ Methais
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1479
| author = DOUG
| date = on 01/28/2016 10:38 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>>I'll never understand any spell that isn't imbeddable but still castable on other players without requiring the caster to be present for it to stick.''

Be careful what you ask for. There are quite a few that work beneficially this way. Let's not make it worse.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 148
| author = GS4-KONACON
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:44 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
''> Is this intentional? The messaging seems contradictory to the ineffectual result.''

This is a fair point. The messaging "The mist leaves the entire lower half of an imposing fire giant champion's body encased in a thick block of ice." is indicating the root effect being applied to the target and is completely separate from the damage that the spell does. Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?

~ Konacon
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1480
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 01/28/2016 10:44 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>Be careful what you ask for. There are quite a few that work beneficially this way. Let's not make it worse.''

Actually, there are none that are imbeddable but can be other-cast without lore excluding bard songs, which work differently altogether.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1481
| author = FIREPHOENIX
| date = on 01/28/2016 03:05 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
Yeah Rapid fire should be self cast. Give some of that back to Wizards. It seems like a no brainer.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1482
| author = SHAYD11
| date = on 01/28/2016 03:10 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I agree with this too, like someone else posted Im not sure why it wasnt self cast from the beginning.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1483
| author = ROLFARD
| date = on 01/30/2016 11:29 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
Alright after spending some time hunting on my mage I am absolutely furious at how he's still faster than my sorcerer but not quite nearly as amazingly as fast as he once was. I demand we get our 0 rt back when casting bolts as it is the most tedious thing having any round time at all when casting spells. Can we seriously not get back to 0 rt at some other cost? I will offer meteor shower as an offering.

Secondly (because I know there's no way we're ever getting back to 0 rt) can we consider the 'flare' on 515 an extension on the uptime (since we just recently lost the ability to use enhancives to reduce cooldown as far as we initially could)? In a swarm you can keep it up because you'll have that chance for it to flare but as soon as the swarm ends, the duration will be able to catch up. Noone wants to see rapidfire fall in the midst of a crowd it was designed for.

Thirdly, this is working as intended (and look how neat it all works together!) but if we aren't going to change it to something else it would be nice if it happened more often or reliably:

501
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Sleep...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a triton combatant.
CS: +494 - TD: +390 + CvA: +20 + d100: +80 == +204
Warding failed!
A triton combatant's eyes roll up into her head as she slumps to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
''>stance off''
You are now in an offensive stance.
''>prep 510''
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Hurl Boulder...
Your spell is ready.
''>''
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
''>''
A triton combatant breathes quietly in her sleep, her small nostrils flaring periodically.
''>ch comb''
You channel at a triton combatant.
A triton combatant is awakened by your attack!
You hurl a large boulder at a triton combatant!
AS: +478 vs DS: +232 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +53 = +321
... and hit for 148 points of damage!
Hard strike removes the right eye and a goodly bit of skull!
The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.

Necrotic energy from your runestaff overflows into you!

You feel energized!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1485
| author = TRIPLEGAME226
| date = on 01/30/2016 01:53 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
Crusaders
Crawlers
Cerebralites
Soul siphons
Liches
Sentries
Water elementals
Fetish masters (unsure)
Sentries

These are some of the capped critters that that won't work on, either because they can't be slept and/or don't crit. Crawlers and cerebralites usually don't crit, cerebralites can't be slept. The rest it never works on.

I would list defenders too, but Nelemar 3rd floor is basically a level 100 kobold village, and OTF isn't a post cap area.

But...1 vs 1 fights were never really the topic in the first place.

~ Methais
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1486
| author = ROLFARD
| date = on 01/30/2016 02:37 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1487
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 01/30/2016 02:45 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
InteresTing idea.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1488
| author = PCOFFEY77
| date = on 01/30/2016 03:09 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.''

Definitely would be nice to have something to handle the swarming which tends to happen quite often at/near capped. All I can do right now is basically run or die. Even the 1 second RT makes all the difference in that life or death so the nerf does hurt, but I can also learn to deal with it and am learning slowly.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1489
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 02/05/2016 11:49 AM PST
| subject = 506-Celerity
}}
I couldn't find the original thread to attach this too (seems like it should be in this folder though).

Does it make sense that alchemy grinding should be moved under the purview of 506-Celerity vs. 535-Haste? Thought I read somewhere that Celerity was for non-combat, thoughtful and deliberate actions which alchemy grinding seems to fall under. Today 535-Haste is what makes alchemy grinding faster.

Also, I have not tested this yet, but what about guild repetition tasks? I'm really dreading trying to complete x amount of repetitions in 60 seconds if Celerity doesn't help out with this. I recall that old haste used to be the ''only'' way to complete these tasks in the past (short of winning the lottery).

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 149
| author = GOLDENOAK2
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:46 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
This is a fair point. The messaging "The mist leaves the entire lower half of an imposing fire giant champion's body encased in a thick block of ice." is indicating the root effect being applied to the target and is completely separate from the damage that the spell does. Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?

~ Konacon>>

Might be better if you indicate something like additional shards of ice erupt from the ground striking ... for x damage.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1490
| author = OBSERVER
| date = on 02/05/2016 11:55 AM PST
| subject = Re: 506-Celerity
}}
''>Also, I have not tested this yet, but what about guild repetition tasks? I'm really dreading trying to complete x amount of repetitions in 60 seconds if Celerity doesn't help out with this. I recall that old haste used to be the only way to complete these tasks in the past (short of winning the lottery).-- Robert''

I also remember a time where I wouldn't attempt illusions work and the like without the Haste spell available. This definitely seems to be something to consider.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1491
| author = DRAFIX
| date = on 02/05/2016 11:58 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
Definitely would be nice to have something to handle the swarming which tends to happen quite often at/near capped. All I can do right now is basically run or die. Even the 1 second RT makes all the difference in that life or death so the nerf does hurt, but I can also learn to deal with it and am learning slowly.

Big swarm? 410. 518. ... 518 518 518 518.. done.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1492
| author = DOUG
| date = on 02/05/2016 12:03 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I'm sure you can take out a big swarm in less than 100 mana, Draf.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1493
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 02/05/2016 01:47 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''

It's hard to beat cone for taking out swarms. Although, at cap that plan often falls a bit short. Try that in a room with a lich, a destroyer, a cerebralite, a fetish master, and a soul siphon. The destroyer is immune to 410, the master and lich will likely fall down, but due to their runestaff DS your cone of elements will miss. So you'll obliterate the soul siphon and cerebralite, but the destroyer will just keep tackling and forcing you into offensive and the lich and master are probably waiting out the remainder of a fairly short RT from e-wave before they unleash spikethorn and major e-wave on you.

Better to lead with call wind and then cone. The cone will stun the cerebralite and siphon regardless, even though call wind will likely miss the siphon. You should be able to hit the lich/master with the cone due to the stance-forcing effect of call wind. If the destroyer tackles you at this point, at least you have some time before the lich and master can cast. That assumes that the lich doesn't EBP or 540 the cone (probably happens nearly 1/3 of the time!) and that the initial cast of call wind hits. If you do miss, your best bet is to bail out before you get dead. Standing in front of liches and trusting to luck rarely works out in your favor!

Of course, you know how to hunt the scatter. I'm only illustrating the point that handling swarms as a wizard isn't always as simple as all that. Since wizards were poorly compensated defensively, it's more important than ever that we minimize the number of combat rolls we leave to chance. In the example above, leading with ewave rather than call wind presents a great deal more risk. Knowing which spell to use and when will make hunting go a lot more smoothly.

I would also remind wizards of the new tremor TAP/STOMP mechanics. Think about where a 0 RT knockdown could play well with your usual strategies. You should be able to find frequent use for this effect.

~Taverkin
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1494
| author = OBSERVER
| date = on 02/05/2016 04:36 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I've said it before, but I don't understand why Haste was nerfed after splitting it in half and moving part of it from a level 6 slot to a level 35 spell slot. As Taverkin said, nothing else was given to compensate for the reduced effectiveness of the defensive benefit of Haste, let alone the hit to BOTH Immolate and Rapid Fire. Instead, Wizards lost a 35th level spell slot and had a drastically reduced floor on their defensive combat RT.

That seems a bit punitive.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1495
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 02/05/2016 08:08 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''

''

I wonder if it's coincidence all of the things I've been using the heck out of (rapid fire, haste, enhancives) are all getting the nerf bat? It's almost like someone was listening, but decided to shoot the messenger for having too much fun!

~Taverkin
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1496
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 02/05/2016 08:28 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> As Taverkin said, nothing else was given to compensate for the reduced effectiveness of the defensive benefit of Haste,''

It does stack for four hours now vs. having a 60 second non-refreshable duration.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1497
| author = THROGG
| date = on 02/05/2016 09:51 PM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>>It does stack for four hours now vs. having a 60 second non-refreshable duration.<< ''
For 35 mana a shot it had better stack; it should also sing "America the Beautiful" while tap dancing with a top hat and cane.
I was pretty much perma hasted with the old spell. I had a script that every 45 seconds would "stop 506\rincant 506\r".
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1498
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 02/06/2016 05:18 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> For 35 mana a shot it had better stack; it should also sing "America the Beautiful" while tap dancing with a top hat and cane. ''

How about "Elanthia the Beautiful" instead? :p

''>> I was pretty much perma hasted with the old spell. I had a script that every 45 seconds would "stop 506\rincant 506\r". ''

So before you were spending 80 mana every 10 minutes during your hunt and now you are spending 35 mana while sitting around in town for somewhere between 20 minutes to nearly 2 hours of haste (mileage will vary by training) yet you seem incredulous at the mana cost? This doesn't seem to be a very compelling argument for change or for the addition of a musical score as you have suggested.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1499
| author = OBSERVER
| date = on 02/06/2016 06:24 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>This doesn't seem to be a very compelling argument for change or for the addition of a musical score as you have suggested.''

Yeah, we should probably stick to the fact that the old haste was mechanically superior and didn't take up 2 spell slots, one of them being 35th level. That, and everyone else getting a free bastardized version of Haste in the form of Quickstrike.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 150
| author = LORDKRIP
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:47 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
Maybe it just shouldn't do anything more than effect the legs/abdomen/back with the ice critical damage...

I am curious what happens if the ice critical happens to cause a crit that comes with knockdown, but the ice encasing it... mindsplosion





Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1500
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 02/06/2016 07:03 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> Yeah, we should probably stick to the fact that the old haste was mechanically superior and didn't take up 2 spell slots, one of them being 35th level.''

Agreed. As well as acknowledging all of the changes (the good and the bad) and making logical arguments for why additional changes are needed.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1501
| author = OBSERVER
| date = on 02/06/2016 08:46 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
The logic has been pretty well spelled out in this case. People can keep hammering the point home, but beyond that, pointing at the obvious with both hands instead of one doesn't seem to be making much of a difference.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1502
| author = DOUG
| date = on 02/06/2016 09:56 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>>doesn't seem to be making much of a difference''

We don't know that, for all we know the GMs might be trying to get through this festival and then plan to take a look.

Despite my dissatisfaction with a couple of things that have occurred, I'm still fairly sure that:

1) There was a plan;
2) That plan was adjusted;
3) Feedback is still being considered, and;
4) We haven't exactly covered ourselves in glory encouraging real-time conscious-stream thought sharing.

So, we wait.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1503
| author = OBSERVER
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:08 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
I don't think trying to stifle conversation is the way to go either, but hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Some just appear to be trying to stop others from sharing theirs.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1504
| author = GS4-KONACON
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:09 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''> 4) We haven't exactly covered ourselves in glory encouraging real-time conscious-stream thought sharing.''

I can only speak for myself, but I can say that I am not avoiding interaction because of any anger/irritation/frustration that might be directed towards me if I were to interact. I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.

I'm not interacting because:
1) The stuff that I'm working on right now isn't ready to share.
2) A lot of the things being discussed right now aren't things that can be easily commented on. Questions like "What are your plans?", "Is this going to change?", and "Don't you agree this is broken?" aren't things I can discuss.

All I can do is assure you that I'm reading everything that is being said.

~ Konacon
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1505
| author = PEREGRINEFALCON
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:12 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.''

You really should water your lawn more.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul."
Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1506
| author = ZENDADA
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:24 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.''

You water your lawn too often.

Chad, player of a few
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1507
| author = DESTINY14
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:24 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>All I can do is assure you that I'm reading everything that is being said.''

Thank you for this acknowledgment.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1508
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:35 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''

Pro Tip: While releasing specifics far in advance isn't recommended, popping in to let us know that you are planning to address an issue in the near future is advised - we call that "communication." In the absence of communication, expect players to assume whatever they like. And good luck with that!

I get that nobody wants to admit when their pet project doesn't receive quite the warm welcome they were hoping for. But the feeling I get from the little communication we have received is that the devs feel the ELR was a success and the complaints are from a vocal minority with a penchant for hyperbole. If that isn't the message you intended to convey, perhaps stopping in and discussing where we're going next would be prudent at this point? I know I can't be the only one left wondering: Is this it?

~Taverkin
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1509
| author = VANKRASN39
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:40 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>I get that nobody wants to admit when their pet project doesn't receive quite the warm welcome they were hoping for. ''

I think he's still a little hurt over the reception of exploding animates :) I wouldn't call the 506/515 changes a pet project for the staff, it was in the works for a long time and was likely handed down from above.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 151
| author = DEANSMITH
| date = on 08/28/2015 08:48 AM PDT
| subject = Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!
}}
''>Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?''

Yes, that would definitely read better.
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1510
| author = DOUG
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:41 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>> If that isn't the message you intended to convey, perhaps stopping in and discussing where we're going next would be prudent at this point?''

I think one did, Tav. In fact, I deleted a couple of responses because they served no purpose after the lawn-watering debate.

You did see it, right?
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1511
| author = BLACKKOBOLD2
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:48 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''
''<1) The stuff that I'm working on right now isn't ready to share.''
''<2) A lot of the things being discussed right now aren't things that can be easily commented on. Questions like "What are your plans?", "Is this going to change?", and "Don't you agree this is

While I can certainly understand the tough position you find yourself in, I'm afraid I must remain unreasonable: I'm looking for acknowledgment of the issues we're discussing here and a commitment to addressing them.

~Taverkin
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1512
| author = DOUG
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:54 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>>I don't think trying to stifle conversation is the way to go either''

I respect that opinion, and hold it dearly myself.

''>>So, we wait.''

A statement of fact - unless your opinion is we're not waiting to hear more?

''>>Some just appear to be trying to stop others from sharing theirs. ''

Indeed.

Doug
{{saved-post
| category = Wizards
| topic = Major Elemental Circle
| messagenum = 1513
| author = VANKRASN39
| date = on 02/06/2016 10:54 AM PST
| subject = Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!
}}
''>I'm afraid I must remain unreasonable: I'm looking for acknowledgment of the issues we're discussing here and a commitment to addressing them.''


... seriously?

Revision as of 20:59, 12 January 2017

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1436
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:18 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>> And not exactly. It's pretty sustainable use. Wizards don't have a one time boost of any kind though.

And technically... 413-Elemental Saturation provide a CS 'boost' (through reduced TD) that can persist through multiple casts for a fraction of the mana.

Sadly I think the spell implementation is super weak (it shouldn't require a warding check to reduce warding) and I only have 75 ranks in the 400 circle at present so it doesn't help me with my sentry '80% problem' at present.

But suppose for the sake of discussion that I spent my remaining spell ranks training on the 400 circle bringing my Minor Elt. up to 101 ranks.

Now my Minor Elt CS would be 535 (the same as my immolation cast CS). With the -25 penalty the sentry would receive against 413 when I cast it I would basically have a 100% chance to cast this spell on a sentry. With my current EMC training (200 ranks) and Fire Lore training (24 ranks) the sentry would now have a -22 warding penalty against my immolation spell for the next 1000 seconds (if I am reading the spell information correctly). So now my immolation cast is at ~100% chance to strike as well!

A near 100% solution with 2 casts if I decide to train in that direction. And less mana for both spells than the 40 point CS booster.

The additional downside to 413 being that I cannot pre-prep my 'booster' spell. I have to be in the room for both casts vs. other boosters that can be cast in safety (another reason to remove the warding check from 413 in my opinion).

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1437
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>And so forth. Though it does look like "count on one hand" is more historically true before that. The last two days have been anomalous

I'm sure the last two days haven't been anomalous. Perhaps it would be useful to look back before people largely stopped playing their characters altogether for data (pre-SimuCon).

Whether people use it frequently or not, it is an accessible option to those spiritual pure classes. And spiritual TDs aren't balanced to compensate for these extra boosts, nor from 240 or 340, the way that elemental TDs already factor maxed out 425 into the equation.

>A near 100% solution with 2 casts if I decide to train in that direction. And less mana for both spells than the 40 point CS booster.

A pushdown is not a booster, particularly when you have to successfully ward the creature to receive the pushdown to begin with. And 340 does not cost 40 mana per use.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1438
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:42 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

I think I read the spell wrong. The sentry would get a -19 ward penalty against my 413 cast due to my EMC training and then would have a -28 warding penalty (-25 plus and additional -3 due to my fire lore training) against my immolation spell. Pretty much the same result in my example but wanted to correct the numbers.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1439
Author: ZENDADA
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:47 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

412 Weapon Deflection with enough Earth Lore looks like a nice mass disabler that virtually has a 100% success rate.

Chad, player of a few

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 144
Author: LADYFLEUR
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:35 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

>The surface of water can now be frozen when Ice Patch is cast, which will mimic the Water Walking (112) spell for that one room. This affect applies to all players as long as the ice patch is in the room (Not just the caster or the caster's group, although keep in mind that ice patches don't last very long once the caster is gone).

Excuse me if I'm missing the obvious, but how exactly does this help when one has to walk INTO the room first to cast the spell, when the purpose behind using water walking is to counteract the environmental effects of the room BEFORE entry? For example, if I'm walking on the EN trail and go through the swamp, this means the wizard will have to be the one to suffer the RT in each swamp room, then cast ice patch for any followers? This seems useless, as everyone in the party will have to wait out the same RT in any case for the wizard to move ahead for each step.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1440
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:48 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>> A pushdown is not a booster, particularly when you have to successfully ward the creature to receive the pushdown to begin with. And 340 does not cost 40 mana per use.

1) We are in agreement that the spell can be improved! Would the removal of the warding check on the initial cast address your available booster concerns? It would for me.

2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1441
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:50 PM PST
Subject: Pures as utility characters

It seems that the trend in the nerfs has been to preserve pre-cap wizard abilities as utility characters at the cost of losing more than necessary potential power at the post-cap level.

This doesn't exist for any of the other pures, so why is this the case for wizards?

Both clerics and empaths require the character to be present to receive lore-based benefits of group or other-cast 211, 215, 219, 117, 303, 307, and 310. Clerics and empaths obviously need to be present to raise and heal others.

Sorcerers require active hunting to access their ensorcell utility function.

Wizards don't have to be hunted at all to enchant, yet this results in having to pay the price of potential for item destruction and excessive temper times based on the large numbers of pocket enchanters that exist.

Wizards are mainly used as spell bots, as wizard spells have historically been sold off the shelf at nearly every merchant on a much larger scale than any other major spiritual or profession circle spells. Wizards can still be used as Rapid Fire bots outside warcamps without even stepping foot inside or being equivalent level.

Why can't wizard balancing first take into account those who actually play the profession instead of protecting the use of wizard abilities for all other classes?

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1442
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: on 01/26/2016 06:59 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>I'm sure the last two days haven't been anomalous. Perhaps it would be useful to look back before people largely stopped playing their characters altogether for data (pre-SimuCon).

Happily, as the one who actually has access to the data, I'm in a position to know what is anomalous and what isn't. The spell tends to be bimodal. It usually gets used less than 10 times per day (frequently less than 5), or gets used 30-40 times per day. Getting used 10-20 times per day is more rare than either of those circumstances. In either case, "handful of times per day" is a quite reasonable estimate.

Just for giggles, the number of casts of 506 is about the same this past week as it was before the changes. And well before potential changes were announced, for that matter.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1443
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:03 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Out of mild curiosity, how many times per day is 413 cast on average vs. the other CS booster spells?

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1444
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:09 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>1) We are in agreement that the spell can be improved! Would the removal of the warding check on the initial cast address your available booster concerns? It would for me.

The spell can certainly be improved, but then I worry that it would no longer be considered a "booster" and TDs would be adjusted across the board accordingly since it is a minor circle spell.

>2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.

Even if it was still considered just a booster and not a must-have, it's still far more expensive than <6.5 mana per use of 340 for spiritualists. I'm not sure if you are aware that you can get 6+ charges per cast of 340, and that mana can be expended prior to the hunt.

I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.

At the end of the day, few people wander into a room of post-cap creatures looking to take on a huge swarm at once. What all the other pures can do, and wizards used to be able to do, is sufficiently contain and finish off a swarm if it happens to emerge in your room of 1 creature before you have to abandon the fight and run off.

Wizards used to be able to kill quickly enough 515 and 0CT such that unexpected swarms aren't issues. Wizards used to be able to rely on 519 to either outright disable or significantly damage, if not outright kill, creatures.

Going back to your point above, 340 is not just a "booster", it is the panic button in combination with 316 or 135. 240 is the offensive combat booster and effectively guarantees an instant kill in combination with 1115 or 317.

Sorcerers have 717 and if all else fails, 720 when the task is to kill or be killed.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1445
Author: BHTM
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:10 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

I'd be curious to know what the least cast spell in the game is if you have that information? Or maybe the bottom 3.

-Richard/Fjalar.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1446
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:15 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>>The day that Methais graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.

Heh. Good cine-ref. Not mainstream, but still kitschy.

And yeah, I know what you did - even agreed. But it undermined the point, thanks. Think Wednesday, next.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1447
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:16 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>2) In my case it's pretty much the same if my warding success is 100%, no? +25 for me or -25 for them provides the same result on a single cast. The +25 scenario doesn't require that I identify my target beforehand though, which I would prefer. But in the end, it is still a booster.

No, it is not the same at all. A pushdown is NOT a booster because it has a hard floor of -25. A booster on the other hand, can be stacked with other boosters and create sufficient enough warding margin such that the effects of being warded by a CS spell are dramatically increased. See 240, where the spirit slayer boosts are boosts on top of the boosted/enhanced base caster CS.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1448
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:18 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Out of mild curiosity, how many times per day is 413 cast on average vs. the other CS booster spells?

413 is classified as an attack spell rather than a booster. In any case, usually only a few dozen times per day. Of all the attack spells used by wizards (and ignoring 525), 412, 915, and 409 are used by far the least with typically only a handful of casts per day.

Before anyone gets any ideas, I'm not about to launch into a spell-by-spell discussion of what gets used and doesn't get used. And also before anyone asks -- yes, this is also one of the things we consider when looking at spells that may need improvements.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1449
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:19 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>>I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.

While I still don't agree with this, as theory does not equal practice and I'm very disinterested in 100% for shore anything in the lands (which as you noted simply gets adjusted until it's no longer 100% sure), I'm going to stop my responding to the belabored point, and ask a simple question.

What about Time Stop (950)?

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 145
Author: ERYKK2
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:39 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

== MECHANICS ==The surface of water can now be frozen when Ice Patch is cast, which will mimic the Water Walking (112) spell for that one room. This affect applies to all players as long as the ice patch is in the room (Not just the caster or the caster's group, although keep in mind that ice patches don't last very long once the caster is gone).Additionally, the targeted version of the spell was updated to instantly deal cold critical damage. The purpose of this is to hopefully make the setup of using Minor Cold less clunky for water mages.Questions? Comments? Love? Hate? CANDY? All of those things are welcome.(Note: I'm not going to give a list of rooms that this affects. Try it out and see. If you do find areas that aren't affected by this that you think should be, let me know!)~ Konacon

How about a self-cast version that mimics 112 for a standard spell duration? With losing haste, this would be a nice addition when walking through swamps. Having to cast it in every single swamp room (On the trail from WL to EN for example) is clunky.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1450
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:23 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>(which as you noted simply gets adjusted until it's no longer 100% sure)

No, this only happens for elementalists and 425. Creatures are absolutely not balanced around 240 or 340 being used on a regular basis, even though they are. Even if you choose not to hunt or equip/train yourself that way, does not mean the possibility should not exist for wizards as it does for every other pure.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1451
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

No.

Do'phion

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1452
Author: GS4-KONACON
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

> I'd be curious to know what the least cast spell in the game is if you have that information? Or maybe the bottom 3.

Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.

~ Konacon

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1453
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:24 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

And, because I think it's both telling and funny. . .


. . .

. . .

. . .

waiting. . .


Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1454
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:25 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>What about Time Stop (950)?

A 1-3x a day offensive spell of any kind is essentially useless or irrelevant when talking about sustainable combat.

Note that both 1150 and 350 are simply utility spells because a level 50 spell shouldn't impact something you actually have to do on a regular basis, instead of in a true emergency.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1455
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:28 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Thank you.

>>A 1-3x a day offensive spell of any kind is essentially useless or irrelevant when talking about sustainable combat.

I disagree. If 80% plus of the use cases are covered, that means we need something to deal with less than 20%. And if it does turn out to be 'no mistake, no miss, can't be stepped around', it will be more powerful than anything else available to any pure, in my view.

But, you do raise an excellent point about other high mana sustainable utilities. That might be something worth factoring for, too. Thanks for reminding me.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1457
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:29 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>>And if it does turn out to be 'no mistake, no miss, can't be stepped around', it will be more powerful than anything else available to any pure, in my view.

Err. . . let me amend that quickly before someone else points out cleric get out of jail free (while rescuing? NOT) card.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1458
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:32 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Err. . . let me amend that quickly before someone else points out cleric get out of jail free (while rescuing? NOT) card.

Kindly don't forget about that 76-88% effective 716 as illustrated in my other thread. Oh right, both of those are under level 20 spells. Why are we forfeiting our single level 50 spot to achieve the same or lesser functionality as any other pure again?

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1459
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:34 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.

I wonder if this could possibly be because major spiritual spells are among the most protected in the lands and are rarely sold off the shelf like all of the other wizard spells of all circles? Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells.

This seems to be yet another case of punishing wizards with excessively punitive nerfs because of the prevalence of pocket mages while doing nothing but protecting and further encouraging the raising of pocket mages at the expense of post-cap power after the nerfing is done.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 146
Author: GOLDENOAK2
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:43 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

<>

I could see it being useful in maelstrom bay if you have the mana and just want to waste it. Personally, swimming would probably be cheaper than recasting every room...but since its a free upgrade its all good. Say, would this mean you could drag a body through some of the watery isolated areas that were undraggable before...Like Maelstrom Bay?

also if it could be a floating iceburg you could ride...Booyah! I have a magic Island...neener neener!

Tell familiar drag island north. Get to work minion!

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1460
Author: GS4-KONACON
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:35 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

> I wonder if this could possibly be because major spiritual spells are among the most protected in the lands and are rarely sold off the shelf like all of the other wizard spells of all circles?

As much as I would like your reason to be the reason why this is true, it is not. It is because the spells simply aren't used.

> Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells.

Empathic healing spells are not anywhere near the bottom 3.

~ Konacon

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1461
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>> I think we are not speaking on the same page regarding boosters etc and desired effects. To achieve parity in offensive capabilities, all pures need reliable (read: guaranteed at a sufficiently post-cap and enhanced level) crowd control and instant kill mechanisms. That is, effective panic buttons and boosters.

Okay. At least I see where some of the perspective difference are. Thanks for clarifying!

I guess where we disagree is that I see the current implementation of RapidFire as a panic button and booster where I guess you see it as... something else? That doesn't mean there isn't opportunity for improvement here though. Looking back at the list of group disablers I posted I would happily drop most of our group disablers in exchange for something with a bit more kick.

>> Wizards used to be able to rely on 519 to either outright disable or significantly damage, if not outright kill, creatures.

As someone who used immolation as a staple disabler spell prior to the changes, I honestly feel the spell is still able to disable effectively even with the reduced chance to kill. Agreed that it isn't what it once was as a primary hunting / killing spell.

So I think we all agree there are opportunities for improvement / enhancement of wizards at this point. A lot was taken away with very little given back. Two main hunting styles were pretty much trashed without any significant improvements or benefits to offset this. I'm disappointed on many levels as well even though I'm trying to keep an open mind about the changes. That said, let's identify what is working, what isn't working, and see what we can do to improve things. I think it is important that we are both accurate and specific in what we are saying isn't working if we expect to see any improvements made though.

And point taken on 340, I read up on the spell after you posted it didn't take 40 mana per use.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1462
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 07:58 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>So I think we all agree there are opportunities for improvement / enhancement of wizards at this point. A lot was taken away with very little given back. Two main hunting styles were pretty much trashed without any significant improvements or benefits to offset this. I'm disappointed on many levels as well even though I'm trying to keep an open mind about the changes.

I agree with all of this. Particularly, the emphasis should be on preserving power ceilings at the post-cap level as much as possible, as is still the case with every other pure class, before protecting all the pocket mages and enchanters who don't even have to hunt anything dangerous to get by. When someone has 13m+ exp, they should be supremely powerful, not simply marginally more so than the 7.5m exp freshly capped or overtrained level 90 wizard.

The 515 cooldown, in particular, needs to be revisited at the post-cap and enhanced level. It's a severe nerf from the first nerf.

Please make the profession fun to play again at the post-cap level and not a more fun combat strategy to 515 some other pure and watch them demolish the room with cheaper and more effective spells instead.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1463
Author: PFLATS
Date: on 01/26/2016 08:02 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Of spells that I classify as something that could be commonly cast, the bottom 3 spells all live in the Empath/Major Spiritual Circles.

Oooh, I like this game.

Hmmm, I'm gonna go with:

Cry for Help (1116) Frenzy (216) and uh... Single target Interference (212)

>Or the fact that herbs and other empath wound cleanup exists to minimize the casting of certain healing spells. I can't think of the last time my empath got a cleanup. They're harder to come by these days unless you're fastidious about stopping Troll's Blood when you come back to town.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1464
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 08:07 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Empathic healing spells are not anywhere near the bottom 3.

This is probably a fruitless discussion, but I would guess the lack of usage of many spells in other profession circles is due to the fact that the other 3 pures still rely on a handful of super boosted and enhanced CS spells to get the instant kill done. Most people hunt as quickly as possible.

The problem is that now wizards have been given more "flavor", yet all of the combined options still don't result in as effective a kill or hunt as any of the other pures can achieve at the post-cap level due to the limitations of attrition-based bolting vs. what excessive warding margin can achieve. The power disparity is now significant, while pre-nerf wizards used to be able to more or less accomplish the same thing in different ways.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1465
Author: AMMINAR
Date: on 01/26/2016 08:10 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Cry for Help (1116)Frenzy (216)and uh...Single target Interference (212)

Those were my guesses, too! Although personally I use 212 more often than 217 (which is still not very often at all).

But I'm very surprised 330 didn't make the bottom 3.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1466
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/26/2016 08:11 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Again, the fact that many post-cap wizards see war maging as the least punitive option left to us is discouraging. The fact is, effective CS spells can be controlled, trained for, and enhanced to guarantee success for all other pures. Likewise, aimed shots are something that can be trained and controlled.

Random, attrition-based bolts and maneuver-based disablers both rely far too heavily on luck to be satisfactory to me post-cap. A post-cap wizard should have more control than ever over the effectiveness of their bolts and disablers, not still have to hope and pray, while none of the other pures has to do that for anything barring a fumble.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1467
Author: ROLFARD
Date: on 01/26/2016 08:27 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Untrammel, living spell, and empathy?

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1468
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 09:16 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>>Please make the profession fun to play again at the post-cap level and not a more fun combat strategy to 515 some other pure and watch them demolish the room with cheaper and more effective spells instead.

While I don't agree with some of what I'm going to call (rightly or no) anecdotal information sharing - in particular the warmage is the least punitive post-cap path as declared by the masses of wizards (well post-cap, I can and do use either quite well, thank you) - I will say this:

I do absolutely agree with the motive behind the quoted plea. Fun is and should be one of the more enduring traits we should aspire to, at all levels.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1469
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/26/2016 09:19 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

I'ma roll with

1) Untrammel, 2) Darkness (safe bet to freebie here) 3) Cry for Help

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 147
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:43 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

I'm pretty sure you suffer the effects when trying to leave the room. So you can enter each room, cast the spell, then move on to the next room without suffering the effects.

-- Robert

"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1471
Author: FIREPHOENIX
Date: on 01/26/2016 10:12 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

Uhm. It's an escape/emergency button, like you've posted and asked for or stated didn't exist.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1472
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 01/27/2016 06:13 AM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

I won't argue with you if you feel that rapid fire and immolate were overpowered. But your desire to see wizards get their comeuppance shouldn't override your ability to reason. You know this game has poor balance. It always has. Don't blame players and wish for other classes to receive poor balancing decisions that detract from the overall product. It's self-destructive.

The fact is they took what was previously a hunting staple and apparently turned it into an "emergency disabler" - of which we actually have many, last I checked? I don't see that immolate currently serves any purpose at all. If I wanted to knock something down and prevent it from attacking I can do that to everything in the area for less mana using any number of spells available to the wizard class. We didn't need a disabler. We did need a hunting staple to give me something other than firing off one bolt after another endlessly.

There must exist a balance between "so overpowered you never use anything else" and "so weak and costly that you never really use it." We're really starting to accumulate in that latter category!

~Taverkin

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1473
Author: TRIPLEGAME226
Date: on 01/27/2016 09:43 AM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

>Heh. Good cine-ref. Not mainstream, but still kitschy

WAT

https://youtu.be/GlhOUyy4wbs

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1474
Author: RISHIB1
Date: on 01/27/2016 10:45 AM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

1) Cry for Help 2) Empathic Link (so infrequently used that everyone forgot it exists!) 3) Frenzy

Doug, Untrammel is a staple defensive spell that is casted in mana spellup if you have the requisite lore now. :) (dispel fodder)

I don't know that the comparisons to other pures are helping any here, except maybe the request for a one-time CS booster and/or Saturation no longer requiring a warding check?

Rishi - Player of Kembal


Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."


[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)] A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1475
Author: PFLATS
Date: on 01/27/2016 02:20 PM PST
Subject: Re: Immolation (519)

I had Empathic Link on my list instead of Interference for a while, but it's such a cool (if frustrating to use) spell that I figure someone out there has to be using it to hunt. Right? Maybe?

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1476
Author: DRAFIX
Date: on 01/27/2016 03:30 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

So, wonderful mechanics implementation team, now that all the complaints and the mood has died down to a dull grumble, has there been any consideration to adding evoke version of 515? Giving wizards the the 0 cast RT proc version when evoked, so that they can take advantage of the lore effects for non channeled spells (which is a lot of them).

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1477
Author: AMCPENS
Date: on 01/28/2016 08:43 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I'd rather get a 1 second cast time, but with no cool down for 515. I also believe that 515 should be self cast. Why is wasn't to begin with is the mystery....

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1478
Author: TRIPLEGAME226
Date: on 01/28/2016 09:17 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I'll never understand any spell that isn't imbeddable but still castable on other players without requiring the caster to be present for it to stick.

If RF were to be made self cast though, I think it should only apply to combat spells. There's no harm in rapid fire utility spells being used by other classes.

~ Methais

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1479
Author: DOUG
Date: on 01/28/2016 10:38 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>>I'll never understand any spell that isn't imbeddable but still castable on other players without requiring the caster to be present for it to stick.

Be careful what you ask for. There are quite a few that work beneficially this way. Let's not make it worse.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 148
Author: GS4-KONACON
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:44 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

> Is this intentional? The messaging seems contradictory to the ineffectual result.

This is a fair point. The messaging "The mist leaves the entire lower half of an imposing fire giant champion's body encased in a thick block of ice." is indicating the root effect being applied to the target and is completely separate from the damage that the spell does. Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?

~ Konacon

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1480
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 01/28/2016 10:44 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>Be careful what you ask for. There are quite a few that work beneficially this way. Let's not make it worse.

Actually, there are none that are imbeddable but can be other-cast without lore excluding bard songs, which work differently altogether.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1481
Author: FIREPHOENIX
Date: on 01/28/2016 03:05 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

Yeah Rapid fire should be self cast. Give some of that back to Wizards. It seems like a no brainer.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1482
Author: SHAYD11
Date: on 01/28/2016 03:10 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I agree with this too, like someone else posted Im not sure why it wasnt self cast from the beginning.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1483
Author: ROLFARD
Date: on 01/30/2016 11:29 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

Alright after spending some time hunting on my mage I am absolutely furious at how he's still faster than my sorcerer but not quite nearly as amazingly as fast as he once was. I demand we get our 0 rt back when casting bolts as it is the most tedious thing having any round time at all when casting spells. Can we seriously not get back to 0 rt at some other cost? I will offer meteor shower as an offering.

Secondly (because I know there's no way we're ever getting back to 0 rt) can we consider the 'flare' on 515 an extension on the uptime (since we just recently lost the ability to use enhancives to reduce cooldown as far as we initially could)? In a swarm you can keep it up because you'll have that chance for it to flare but as soon as the swarm ends, the duration will be able to catch up. Noone wants to see rapidfire fall in the midst of a crowd it was designed for.

Thirdly, this is working as intended (and look how neat it all works together!) but if we aren't going to change it to something else it would be nice if it happened more often or reliably:

501 You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Sleep... Your spell is ready. You gesture at a triton combatant. 

 CS: +494 - TD: +390 + CvA: +20 + d100: +80 == +204
 Warding failed!

A triton combatant's eyes roll up into her head as she slumps to the ground. Cast Roundtime 1 Second. >stance off You are now in an offensive stance. >prep 510 You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Hurl Boulder... Your spell is ready. > Your disk arrives, following you dutifully. > A triton combatant breathes quietly in her sleep, her small nostrils flaring periodically. >ch comb You channel at a triton combatant. A triton combatant is awakened by your attack! You hurl a large boulder at a triton combatant! 

 AS: +478 vs DS: +232 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +53 = +321
  ... and hit for 148 points of damage!
  Hard strike removes the right eye and a goodly bit of skull!

The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face. 

 Necrotic energy from your runestaff overflows into you! 

  You feel energized!

Cast Roundtime 1 Second. Roundtime: 3 sec.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1485
Author: TRIPLEGAME226
Date: on 01/30/2016 01:53 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

Crusaders Crawlers Cerebralites Soul siphons Liches Sentries Water elementals Fetish masters (unsure) Sentries

These are some of the capped critters that that won't work on, either because they can't be slept and/or don't crit. Crawlers and cerebralites usually don't crit, cerebralites can't be slept. The rest it never works on.

I would list defenders too, but Nelemar 3rd floor is basically a level 100 kobold village, and OTF isn't a post cap area.

But...1 vs 1 fights were never really the topic in the first place.

~ Methais

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1486
Author: ROLFARD
Date: on 01/30/2016 02:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1487
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 01/30/2016 02:45 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

InteresTing idea.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1488
Author: PCOFFEY77
Date: on 01/30/2016 03:09 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.

Definitely would be nice to have something to handle the swarming which tends to happen quite often at/near capped. All I can do right now is basically run or die. Even the 1 second RT makes all the difference in that life or death so the nerf does hurt, but I can also learn to deal with it and am learning slowly.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1489
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 02/05/2016 11:49 AM PST
Subject: 506-Celerity

I couldn't find the original thread to attach this too (seems like it should be in this folder though).

Does it make sense that alchemy grinding should be moved under the purview of 506-Celerity vs. 535-Haste? Thought I read somewhere that Celerity was for non-combat, thoughtful and deliberate actions which alchemy grinding seems to fall under. Today 535-Haste is what makes alchemy grinding faster.

Also, I have not tested this yet, but what about guild repetition tasks? I'm really dreading trying to complete x amount of repetitions in 60 seconds if Celerity doesn't help out with this. I recall that old haste used to be the only way to complete these tasks in the past (short of winning the lottery).

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 149
Author: GOLDENOAK2
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

This is a fair point. The messaging "The mist leaves the entire lower half of an imposing fire giant champion's body encased in a thick block of ice." is indicating the root effect being applied to the target and is completely separate from the damage that the spell does. Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?

~ Konacon>>

Might be better if you indicate something like additional shards of ice erupt from the ground striking ... for x damage.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1490
Author: OBSERVER
Date: on 02/05/2016 11:55 AM PST
Subject: Re: 506-Celerity

>Also, I have not tested this yet, but what about guild repetition tasks? I'm really dreading trying to complete x amount of repetitions in 60 seconds if Celerity doesn't help out with this. I recall that old haste used to be the only way to complete these tasks in the past (short of winning the lottery).-- Robert

I also remember a time where I wouldn't attempt illusions work and the like without the Haste spell available. This definitely seems to be something to consider.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1491
Author: DRAFIX
Date: on 02/05/2016 11:58 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

Definitely would be nice to have something to handle the swarming which tends to happen quite often at/near capped. All I can do right now is basically run or die. Even the 1 second RT makes all the difference in that life or death so the nerf does hurt, but I can also learn to deal with it and am learning slowly.

Big swarm? 410. 518. ... 518 518 518 518.. done.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1492
Author: DOUG
Date: on 02/05/2016 12:03 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I'm sure you can take out a big swarm in less than 100 mana, Draf.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1493
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 02/05/2016 01:47 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

It's hard to beat cone for taking out swarms. Although, at cap that plan often falls a bit short. Try that in a room with a lich, a destroyer, a cerebralite, a fetish master, and a soul siphon. The destroyer is immune to 410, the master and lich will likely fall down, but due to their runestaff DS your cone of elements will miss. So you'll obliterate the soul siphon and cerebralite, but the destroyer will just keep tackling and forcing you into offensive and the lich and master are probably waiting out the remainder of a fairly short RT from e-wave before they unleash spikethorn and major e-wave on you.

Better to lead with call wind and then cone. The cone will stun the cerebralite and siphon regardless, even though call wind will likely miss the siphon. You should be able to hit the lich/master with the cone due to the stance-forcing effect of call wind. If the destroyer tackles you at this point, at least you have some time before the lich and master can cast. That assumes that the lich doesn't EBP or 540 the cone (probably happens nearly 1/3 of the time!) and that the initial cast of call wind hits. If you do miss, your best bet is to bail out before you get dead. Standing in front of liches and trusting to luck rarely works out in your favor!

Of course, you know how to hunt the scatter. I'm only illustrating the point that handling swarms as a wizard isn't always as simple as all that. Since wizards were poorly compensated defensively, it's more important than ever that we minimize the number of combat rolls we leave to chance. In the example above, leading with ewave rather than call wind presents a great deal more risk. Knowing which spell to use and when will make hunting go a lot more smoothly.

I would also remind wizards of the new tremor TAP/STOMP mechanics. Think about where a 0 RT knockdown could play well with your usual strategies. You should be able to find frequent use for this effect.

~Taverkin

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1494
Author: OBSERVER
Date: on 02/05/2016 04:36 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I've said it before, but I don't understand why Haste was nerfed after splitting it in half and moving part of it from a level 6 slot to a level 35 spell slot. As Taverkin said, nothing else was given to compensate for the reduced effectiveness of the defensive benefit of Haste, let alone the hit to BOTH Immolate and Rapid Fire. Instead, Wizards lost a 35th level spell slot and had a drastically reduced floor on their defensive combat RT.

That seems a bit punitive.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1495
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 02/05/2016 08:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I wonder if it's coincidence all of the things I've been using the heck out of (rapid fire, haste, enhancives) are all getting the nerf bat? It's almost like someone was listening, but decided to shoot the messenger for having too much fun!

~Taverkin

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1496
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 02/05/2016 08:28 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> As Taverkin said, nothing else was given to compensate for the reduced effectiveness of the defensive benefit of Haste,

It does stack for four hours now vs. having a 60 second non-refreshable duration.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1497
Author: THROGG
Date: on 02/05/2016 09:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>>It does stack for four hours now vs. having a 60 second non-refreshable duration.<<

For 35 mana a shot it had better stack; it should also sing "America the Beautiful" while tap dancing with a top hat and cane.

I was pretty much perma hasted with the old spell. I had a script that every 45 seconds would "stop 506\rincant 506\r".

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1498
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 02/06/2016 05:18 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> For 35 mana a shot it had better stack; it should also sing "America the Beautiful" while tap dancing with a top hat and cane.

How about "Elanthia the Beautiful" instead? :p

>> I was pretty much perma hasted with the old spell. I had a script that every 45 seconds would "stop 506\rincant 506\r".

So before you were spending 80 mana every 10 minutes during your hunt and now you are spending 35 mana while sitting around in town for somewhere between 20 minutes to nearly 2 hours of haste (mileage will vary by training) yet you seem incredulous at the mana cost? This doesn't seem to be a very compelling argument for change or for the addition of a musical score as you have suggested.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1499
Author: OBSERVER
Date: on 02/06/2016 06:24 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>This doesn't seem to be a very compelling argument for change or for the addition of a musical score as you have suggested.

Yeah, we should probably stick to the fact that the old haste was mechanically superior and didn't take up 2 spell slots, one of them being 35th level. That, and everyone else getting a free bastardized version of Haste in the form of Quickstrike.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 150
Author: LORDKRIP
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:47 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

Maybe it just shouldn't do anything more than effect the legs/abdomen/back with the ice critical damage...

I am curious what happens if the ice critical happens to cause a crit that comes with knockdown, but the ice encasing it... mindsplosion



Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1500
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 02/06/2016 07:03 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> Yeah, we should probably stick to the fact that the old haste was mechanically superior and didn't take up 2 spell slots, one of them being 35th level.

Agreed. As well as acknowledging all of the changes (the good and the bad) and making logical arguments for why additional changes are needed.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1501
Author: OBSERVER
Date: on 02/06/2016 08:46 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

The logic has been pretty well spelled out in this case. People can keep hammering the point home, but beyond that, pointing at the obvious with both hands instead of one doesn't seem to be making much of a difference.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1502
Author: DOUG
Date: on 02/06/2016 09:56 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>>doesn't seem to be making much of a difference

We don't know that, for all we know the GMs might be trying to get through this festival and then plan to take a look.

Despite my dissatisfaction with a couple of things that have occurred, I'm still fairly sure that:

1) There was a plan; 2) That plan was adjusted; 3) Feedback is still being considered, and; 4) We haven't exactly covered ourselves in glory encouraging real-time conscious-stream thought sharing.

So, we wait.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1503
Author: OBSERVER
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:08 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

I don't think trying to stifle conversation is the way to go either, but hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Some just appear to be trying to stop others from sharing theirs.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1504
Author: GS4-KONACON
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:09 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

> 4) We haven't exactly covered ourselves in glory encouraging real-time conscious-stream thought sharing.

I can only speak for myself, but I can say that I am not avoiding interaction because of any anger/irritation/frustration that might be directed towards me if I were to interact. I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.

I'm not interacting because: 1) The stuff that I'm working on right now isn't ready to share. 2) A lot of the things being discussed right now aren't things that can be easily commented on. Questions like "What are your plans?", "Is this going to change?", and "Don't you agree this is broken?" aren't things I can discuss.

All I can do is assure you that I'm reading everything that is being said.

~ Konacon

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1505
Author: PEREGRINEFALCON
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:12 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.

You really should water your lawn more.

-- Robert

Bazzelwyn says, "Maul maul maul maul maul maul maul." Bazzelwyn says, "The answer is maul."

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1506
Author: ZENDADA
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:24 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> I am more than willing to receive criticism regardless of how harsh it might be.

You water your lawn too often.

Chad, player of a few

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1507
Author: DESTINY14
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:24 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>All I can do is assure you that I'm reading everything that is being said.

Thank you for this acknowledgment.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1508
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:35 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

Pro Tip: While releasing specifics far in advance isn't recommended, popping in to let us know that you are planning to address an issue in the near future is advised - we call that "communication." In the absence of communication, expect players to assume whatever they like. And good luck with that!

I get that nobody wants to admit when their pet project doesn't receive quite the warm welcome they were hoping for. But the feeling I get from the little communication we have received is that the devs feel the ELR was a success and the complaints are from a vocal minority with a penchant for hyperbole. If that isn't the message you intended to convey, perhaps stopping in and discussing where we're going next would be prudent at this point? I know I can't be the only one left wondering: Is this it?

~Taverkin

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1509
Author: VANKRASN39
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:40 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>I get that nobody wants to admit when their pet project doesn't receive quite the warm welcome they were hoping for.

I think he's still a little hurt over the reception of exploding animates :) I wouldn't call the 506/515 changes a pet project for the staff, it was in the works for a long time and was likely handed down from above.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 151
Author: DEANSMITH
Date: on 08/28/2015 08:48 AM PDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Ice Patch (512) Updated!

>Do you think it should be messaged after the damage rather than before to read better?

Yes, that would definitely read better.

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1510
Author: DOUG
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:41 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>> If that isn't the message you intended to convey, perhaps stopping in and discussing where we're going next would be prudent at this point?

I think one did, Tav. In fact, I deleted a couple of responses because they served no purpose after the lawn-watering debate.

You did see it, right?

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1511
Author: BLACKKOBOLD2
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:48 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

<1) The stuff that I'm working on right now isn't ready to share. <2) A lot of the things being discussed right now aren't things that can be easily commented on. Questions like "What are your plans?", "Is this going to change?", and "Don't you agree this is

While I can certainly understand the tough position you find yourself in, I'm afraid I must remain unreasonable: I'm looking for acknowledgment of the issues we're discussing here and a commitment to addressing them.

~Taverkin

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1512
Author: DOUG
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:54 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>>I don't think trying to stifle conversation is the way to go either

I respect that opinion, and hold it dearly myself.

>>So, we wait.

A statement of fact - unless your opinion is we're not waiting to hear more?

>>Some just appear to be trying to stop others from sharing theirs.

Indeed.

Doug

Category: Wizards
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 1513
Author: VANKRASN39
Date: on 02/06/2016 10:54 AM PST
Subject: Re: Rapid Fire (515) Updated!

>I'm afraid I must remain unreasonable: I'm looking for acknowledgment of the issues we're discussing here and a commitment to addressing them.


... seriously?

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