Leafiara (prime)/Mechanical Musings/Combat Maneuver Choices: Difference between revisions

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{{player-guide
|title = Combat Maneuver Choices
|topic = Combat Maneuvers, Training
|author = Leafiara
|author-displayed = Leafiara
|date = 2021-07-11
|updated = 2023-08-07
}}



<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard mw-customtoggle-cleric mw-customtoggle-empath mw-customtoggle-monk mw-customtoggle-paladin mw-customtoggle-ranger mw-customtoggle-rogue mw-customtoggle-warrior" style="color:#0000FF">'''(click here to open all collapsed sections on this page)'''</div>
<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard mw-customtoggle-cleric mw-customtoggle-empath mw-customtoggle-monk mw-customtoggle-paladin mw-customtoggle-ranger mw-customtoggle-rogue mw-customtoggle-warrior" style="color:#0000FF">'''(click here to open all collapsed sections on this page)'''</div>


=Preamble=
=Preamble=


After testing [[Player_System_Manager_-_Phase_3|Phase 3 of the Player System Manager]] for five weeks, I figured that I'd experienced enough to settle on plans for which [[Combat Maneuvers|combat maneuvers]] I'd learn on each of my characters when the changes went live. Below is my thought process for each one in case others find it helpful!
This page mostly assesses [[Combat Maneuvers|combat maneuvers]] from the perspective of post-cap characters, but even while leveling, there are often insights to be found from reading others' thought processes. Below is my process in case others find it helpful!


=Bard=
=Bard=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Focus focus 5/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Dirtkick dirtkick 4/5
Cheapshots cheapshots 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Feint feint 5/5 Warrior Guild
Combat Focus focus 3/5 Passive
Groin Kick gkick 4/5
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Precision precision 1/2
Dirtkick dirtkick 3/5 Setup
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Eyepoke eyepoke 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Sweep sweep 5/5 Rogue Guild
Feint feint 4/5 Setup Warrior Guild
True Strike truestrike 5/5
Footstomp footstomp 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Vault Kick vaultkick 1/5
Groin Kick gkick 3/5 Setup
Hamstring hamstring 5/5 Setup
Kneebash kneebash 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Nosetweak nosetweak 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Sweep sweep 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Swiftkick swiftkick 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Templeshot templeshot 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Throatchop throatchop 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
True Strike truestrike 4/5 Attack
Available Combat Maneuver Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1



<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
<div class="mw-customtoggle-bard" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
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==Context==
==Context==


My bard uses a lance, has fully trained 2x spells, and wears either robes or torso chain mail depending on whether what she's hunting would leave her better suited with more DS or better CvA.
My bard uses a lance in most settings, but dual short swords in the Hinterwilds, and she might train for katars in the future. She has fully trained 2x spells and wears robes.


==Explanation==
==Explanation==


Bards are pretty scant on maneuver options, so many of her picks are there for lack of anything better to do. Many of the setup maneuvers are mostly or entirely for defensive purposes since bards have better magical setups or, at higher levels, can forego setting up and jump straight to offense.
Bards are pretty scant on maneuver options that aren't outclassed in some way by their magical options, so many of her picks are there for lack of anything better to do. That said, the ones that are good are exceptional.


* '''Cheapshots''': Offensively a bard doesn't need any of these, though Swiftkick could be argued as better than Feint in some situations, but improved defense against nearly the entire suite of bandit maneuvers for thirty points is very compelling.
* '''Combat Focus''': Almost a gimme since bards' one weakness is TD. I'd recommend this to every bard unless they hunt bandits 100% of the time.
* '''Combat Focus''': Almost a gimme since bards' major weakness is TD. I'd recommend this to every bard unless they hunt bandits 100% of the time.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Dirtkick''': Somewhat filler, but out of bards' available maneuver options, this seemed to be one of the most likely to be valuable at least in very niche situations, including future Ascension-based hunting grounds.
* '''Dirtkick''': Somewhat filler, but out of bards' available maneuver options, this seemed to be one of the most likely to be valuable at least in very niche situations. Pirates do occasionally use this, so ranks for defense are decent.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver for many professions. Melee bards are no exception!
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver for many professions. Bards are no exception! Better than Swiftkick at inflicting RT.
* '''Groin Kick''': Another somewhat filler maneuver. I think Dirtkick is easily the better of the two for offense, but training this one does help defend against bandits.
* '''Groin Kick''': Another somewhat filler maneuver. I think Dirtkick is easily the better of the two for offense, but training this one helps defend against bandits in addition to pirates.
* '''Hamstring''': Arguably the best offensive combat maneuver for bards, this tears through just about anything. I found that four ranks are enough to hit consistently even against level 115 Hinterwilds foes, but going all the way makes Major Bleed that much better.
* '''Precision''': Can provide extra versatility for situations where one damage type is more useful than others. I don't feel strongly enough about it to train both ranks, but there aren't many better ways to spend four points than the first rank.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Sweep''': Probably my favorite setup maneuver available to bards. Applying Vulnerable is among the best status effects you could hope for!
* '''Sweep''': The other arguable best offensive combat maneuver. Applying Vulnerable is among the best status effects you could hope for and Staggered probably ''is'' the single best status effect.
* '''True Strike''': My thought here is that the EBP reduction can really help with hitting overleveled creatures in Ascension grounds or turtling creatures anywhere, but the Hinterwilds have pretty well proven that Hamstring and Sweep are the best melee-based openers in those situations. Assault techniques are almost always a better followup than True Strike, but it's a reasonable option when they're on cooldown.
* '''True Strike''': Another forward-thinking choice, like Dirtkick. I don't think it's especially useful in the current game as it competes with weapon techniques for stamina usage, but it could be strong for hitting overleveled enemies in Ascension grounds.
* '''Vault Kick''': Fluff because I had two spare points.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==


I originally had one rank of Precision on her list since it can provide extra versatility for situations where one damage type is more useful than others and it's hard to find much more value for four points. That said, lances and arguably even short swords and katars don't care that much about damage type, so I've left it off for now. If I want it back in the future, the points will probably come from Groin Kick.
I thought about Cheapshots for defensive purposes, as it's helpful against bandits. I still might drop some amount of Dirtkick, Groin Kick, or True Strike for Cheapshots, but it would only be for defense. Dropping any of those and picking up Hamstring for defense is another option. (I say "for defense" even though I intend for my bard to eventually learn to use two edged weapons, because even in that scenario I think bards almost always have better things to do offensively than Hamstring.)


Spin Attack is another option, but I feel it's generally unnecessary for bards since the main selling point is its low RT and they're already getting that through Song of Tonis. Expressed another way, I think 1-second True Strike is better than 1-second Spin Attack.
Taking Spin Attack is an option, but I feel that True Strike outweighs it, never mind the other available maneuvers and weapon techniques. Vault Kick is the sort of maneuver I want to like thematically, but I tried and it never delivered for me.


</div>
</div>
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=Cleric=
=Cleric=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirtkick dirtkick 2/5
Feint feint 5/5 Warrior Guild
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Groin Kick gkick 4/5
Dirtkick dirtkick 2/5 Setup
Precision precision 2/2
Feint feint 5/5 Setup Warrior Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Groin Kick gkick 5/5 Setup
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive


<div class="mw-customtoggle-cleric" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
<div class="mw-customtoggle-cleric" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
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* '''Dirtkick''': One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but clerics have better things to do. I took it just for fun when helping lower level characters on their bounties.
* '''Dirtkick''': One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but clerics have better things to do. I took it just for fun when helping lower level characters on their bounties.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every cleric, this is it.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every cleric, this is it.
* '''Groin Kick''': Amusingly enough, this and Feint are a cleric's best ways to inflict RT on the enemy. Being hilarious is a bonus! ...as is getting extra defense against bandits.
* '''Groin Kick''': Amusingly enough, this and Feint are a cleric's best ways to inflict RT on the enemy. Being hilarious is a bonus! ...as is getting extra defense against bandits. Now if only it worked with UAC shoes...
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS gains here are more necessary for running a war cleric than any other build, including even war sorcerers since the latter have access to a larger number of non-native AS boosters.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS gains here are more necessary for running a war cleric than any other build, including even war sorcerers since the latter have access to a larger number of non-native AS boosters.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==


If pures eventually have the ability to learn weapon techniques through Ascension, I'll either drop a rank of Dirtkick to take a rank of Precision or drop a rank of Groin Kick to take both ranks of Precision. The added versatility isn't to be overlooked.
If pures eventually have the ability to learn weapon techniques through Ascension, I'll probably either drop a rank of Dirtkick to take a rank of Precision or drop a rank of Groin Kick to take both ranks of Precision. The added versatility isn't to be overlooked.


Cunning Defense might be worthwhile for a cleric who has no Combat Maneuvers nor Dodging nor 2x Perception, but becomes unnecessary overkill with diminishing returns at some point. By the end, the full five ranks are only giving +1 defense against maneuver rolls.
I can see Cunning Defense as worthwhile for a cleric who has no Combat Maneuvers nor Dodging nor 2x Perception, but it becomes unnecessary overkill with diminishing returns after a while. By the end, the full five ranks are only giving around +2 defense against maneuver rolls.


</div>
</div>
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=Empath=
=Empath=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cunning Defense cdefense 5/5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3/5
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Feint feint 5/5 Warrior Guild
Cunning Defense cdefense 5/5 Passive
Groin Kick gkick 1/5
Dirtkick dirtkick 3/5 Setup
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Feint feint 5/5 Setup Warrior Guild
Groin Kick gkick 1/5 Setup
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Available Combat Maneuver Points: 2
Trip trip 1/5 Setup


<div class="mw-customtoggle-empath" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
<div class="mw-customtoggle-empath" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
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* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Cunning Defense''': I don't think this is the optimal mechanical choice since the math works out that it's giving a whopping -1 to enemies' maneuver rolls. That said, since empaths have 3x Physical Fitness, I figured I'd go all in on accentuating one of their strengths by pushing maneuver defense to the utmost.
* '''Cunning Defense''': I don't think this is the optimal mechanical choice since the math works out that it's giving a whopping -2 or so to enemies' maneuver rolls, at least in the post-cap range. That said, since empaths have 3x Physical Fitness, I figured I'd go all in on accentuating one of their strengths by pushing maneuver defense to the utmost.
* '''Dirtkick''': One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but empaths have better things to do. Still fun, though.
* '''Dirtkick''': One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but empaths have better things to do. Still fun, though.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every empath, this is it.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every empath, this is it.
* '''Groin Kick''': Another pick just for fun and because spare points were there. Like clerics, empaths can't inflict RT on enemies without this or Feint; unlike clerics, however, empaths would never have a need to do that since almost nothing is immune to Sympathy.
* '''Groin Kick''': Another pick just for fun and because spare points were there. Like clerics, empaths can't inflict RT on enemies without this or Feint; unlike clerics, however, empaths would never have a need to do that since almost nothing is immune to Sympathy.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Trip''': Two points remained and had to go somewhere.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==
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=Monk=
=Monk=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Burst of Swiftness burst 5/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Focus focus 5/5
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1
Burst of Swiftness burst 5/5 Buff
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Combat Focus focus 2/5 Passive
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 5/5
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1 Passive
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 5/5 Attack
Rolling Krynch Stance krynch 3/3
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3 Passive
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Ki Focus kifocus 3/3 Buff
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5 Passive
Rolling Krynch Stanc krynch 3/3 Martial Stance
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
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==Context==
==Context==


My monk is primarily a brawler with a conventional build, but is learning to use dual katars for the sake of having more AoE weapon techniques available.
My monk is primarily a brawler with a conventional build, but can also use dual katars for the sake of having more AoE weapon techniques available against creatures with particularly low DS.


==Explanation==
==Explanation==
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The short of it is that Spin Kick with max Kick Specialization is by far the strongest single-target reaction technique and can often pick off enemies one by one more quickly than anything else you could be doing.
The short of it is that Spin Kick with max Kick Specialization is by far the strongest single-target reaction technique and can often pick off enemies one by one more quickly than anything else you could be doing.


* '''Burst of Swiftness''': My monk is an elf, so having Perfect Self and maxed Burst of Swiftness in conjunction with ten Ascension ranks each of Agility and Dexterity puts her just over the highest Agidex threshold and really makes assault techniques or even mstrikes shine. Burst of Swiftness also has various other benefits like adding additional weighting, increasing Major Bleed damage from Slashing Strikes, slightly increasing evasion rate, and slightly increasing UAF.
* '''Burst of Swiftness''': Strengthens the Major Bleed damage from Slashing Strikes. Also has other benefits like slightly increasing evasion rate or slightly reducing RT and slightly increasing UAF when using kick-heavy Fury or kick-heavy mstrikes, but I think those are very secondary to the Slashing Strikes benefit.
* '''Combat Focus''': Virtually a gimme for a monk, whose main weakness is TD.
* '''Combat Focus''': Virtually a gimme for a monk, whose main weakness is TD.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Before the creation of Spin Kick, I considered this very solid for monks, but not a must-have since they're great at avoiding attacks even while prone. Now I consider it a must-have on a Spin Kick build since they need to be standing to use it.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Before PSM3, I considered this very solid for monks, but not a must-have since they're great at avoiding attacks even while prone. Now I consider it a must-have on a Spin Kick build since they need to be standing to use it.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
* '''Coup de Grace''': I'm not willing to forego Vertigo to have Martial Mastery, which means monk AS isn't great. Coup serves a dual purpose of raising AS and finishing off enemies that fell short of being killed, which should happen fairly often when attacking with katars or AoE. For the other squares, I think two or three ranks are fine, but because of monks' diminished AS, I want a full five ranks to keep this active as frequently as possible.
* '''Coup de Grace''': I'm not willing to forego Vertigo to have Martial Mastery, which means monk AS isn't great. Coup serves a dual purpose of raising AS and finishing off enemies that fell short of being killed, which isn't too uncommon when attacking with katars or AoE. For the other squares, I think two or three ranks are fine, but because of monks' comparatively lower AS, I like a full five ranks to keep this active as frequently as possible.
* '''Evade Specialization''': Half of the linchpin of the Spin Kick build since you get an additional 10% chance to dodge and react.
* '''Evade Specialization''': Half of the linchpin of the Spin Kick build since you get an additional 10% chance to dodge and react.
* '''Ki Focus''': With enough lore investment (for Mind Over Body), Physical Fitness, and potentially Stamina Regeneration from Ascension, you can use this near constantly.
* '''Kick Specialization'''': The other half of the linchpin. What's even better than obliterating enemies in five seconds, which monks do with focused mstrikes, is obliterating them in two seconds, which monks do with five ranks of Kick Specialization.
* '''Kick Specialization'''': The other half of the linchpin of Spin Kick builds. There aren't many better feelings in the game than being stuck in RT lock from Elemental Wave or similar effects, but then standing up with Combat Mobility and kicking everything to death before the RT ends.
* '''Rolling Krynch Stance''': What used to be a staple is more niche ''if'' the monk has an alternative weapon style trained. Since mstrikes lock out weapon techniques, it's a matter of picking one or the other and I almost always side with weapon techniques. That said, unarmed combat is drastically more viable than AS-based attacks against heavily turtled enemies with Wall of Force up, so it has its place.
* '''Rolling Krynch Stance''': A staple of unarmed combat, especially if you don't mind fighting multiple creatures at once.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS is really helpful for monks who use weapons but don't have Martial Mastery, since they otherwise fall way short of other squares (and paladins).
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS is really helpful for monks who use weapons but don't have Martial Mastery, since they otherwise fall way short of other squares (and paladins).


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==


I had Hamstring at one point. While I do believe it just might be the best combat maneuver in the game, I also believe it needs to go all in with five ranks to outshine alternatives like Twin Hammerfists to the degree it should. If I ever want it back, Coup de Grace is probably what will go, but Coup is pretty exceptional in its own right in the hands of a monk. They actually fill sort of similar roles, but in reverse: either lead off with Hamstring to get a ton of bleed damage going before letting UAC finish the job or lead off with UAC to get in the initial damage before letting Coup finish the job.
Surge of Strength is a very reasonable idea, especially on a weapon-wielding monk, but I felt that Side by Side and Coup de Grace were enough, where the former is passive and the latter has a lower stamina cost than Surge. If I end up discovering that Rolling Krynch isn't necessary, I'll most likely take a few ranks of Surge.


Ultimately, monks are the only profession where I lean toward Coup (given a choice between the two) because of UAC being so capable of inflicting disablers while simultaneously dealing hard hits. It also helps that Coup works on undead while Hamstring doesn't.
There's a case to be made for Duck and Weave for its synergy with Evade Specialization, but I think Rolling Krynch wins out. There's also a case to be made for Slippery Mind for better defense against warding attacks, but I'd prefer stronger offense.


I also had Surge of Strength at one point since it can shore up AS, but I eventually decided that monks without Martial Mastery should only use weapons against creatures that naturally have low DS in the first place.
That said, there's a question of why my monk has Combat Focus instead of training any of her disabling options--Headbutt, Sweep, Cheapshots--in an attempt to stop enemies from casting at all. I don't think it's reasonable to assume you can hit first 100% of the time, but even if you could, I'd say you can accomplish the goal of stopping them with weapon techniques alone.

There's a case to be made for Slippery Mind to have better defense against warding attacks, but as more and more overleveled Ascension creatures get released, Rolling Krynch's flat chance to preserve higher tiers of unarmed combat only gets progressively more valuable. Of course, the same could be said for Slippery Mind, but not every creature uses magic.

There's a case to be made for Duck and Weave for its synergy with Evade Specialization, but it's very dependent on the area. It works best in places where the enemies are hard hitting yet squishy.

There's a question of why my monk has Combat Focus instead of training any of her disabling options--Headbutt, Sweep, Cheapshots--in an attempt to stop enemies from casting at all. I don't think it's reasonable to assume you can hit first 100% of the time, but even if you could, I'd say you can accomplish the goal with Twin Hammerfists and don't need to spend valuable CM points on it.


A Martial Mastery monk who primarily battles with edged, blunt, or two-handed weapons is the use case for taking Parry Specialization over Evade Specialization, since their reaction techniques trigger from parries, but at that point you also need to take two ranks of Stance Perfection to prioritize parrying over evading. I don't like the point sink.
A Martial Mastery monk who primarily battles with edged, blunt, or two-handed weapons is the use case for taking Parry Specialization over Evade Specialization, since their reaction techniques trigger from parries, but at that point you also need to take two ranks of Stance Perfection to prioritize parrying over evading. I don't like the point sink.
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=Paladin=
=Paladin=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Focus focus 5/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Combat Toughness toughness 1/3
Combat Focus focus 5/5 Passive
Feint feint 5/5 Warrior Guild
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Precision precision 2/2
Combat Toughness toughness 1/3 Passive
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Feint feint 5/5 Setup Warrior Guild
Spin Attack sattack 5/5 Warrior Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Surge of Strength surge 5/5
Spin Attack sattack 4/5 Attack Warrior Guild
Weapon Specialization wspec 5/5
Surge of Strength surge 5/5 Buff
True Strike truestrike 4/5 Attack
Weapon Specializatio wspec 5/5 Passive
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1


<div class="mw-customtoggle-paladin" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
<div class="mw-customtoggle-paladin" style="overflow:auto;color:#0000FF">Click here for explanations!</div>
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==Context==
==Context==


My paladin uses two war hammers as her primary weapons and is now training to use two broadswords as backup to keep a rotation of weapon techniques going, along with having fully trained 2x spells. She also wears metal breastplate instead of full plate.
My paladin uses two war hammers as her primary weapons, has fully trained 2x spells, and wears metal breastplate instead of full plate.


==Explanation==
==Explanation==


One "problem" with paladins is that they can reach overwhelming enough AS and CS advantages over enemy DS and TD that they don't need setups. Despite having many combat maneuver options, a number of them are redundant in light of either weapon techniques, their spells, or both, so I gravitated toward passive abilities.
One "problem" with paladins is that they can reach overwhelming enough AS and CS advantages over enemy DS and TD that they don't need setups outside of really high end areas. Despite having many combat maneuver options, a number of them are redundant in light of either weapon techniques, their spells, or both, so I gravitated toward passive abilities.


* '''Combat Focus''': Pushing paladins' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
* '''Combat Focus''': Pushing paladins' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side. Very slightly less useless for a two weapon paladin than it is for every other profession, since their DS isn't exceptional, but I'd rather just keep up Wall of Force.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side. Very slightly less useless for a two weapon paladin than it is for other professions and builds since their DS isn't exceptional.
* '''Combat Toughness''': The first rank is a very solid +15 health for its cost and can help against getting slowly poked to death.
* '''Combat Toughness''': The first rank is a very solid +15 health for its cost and can help against getting slowly poked to death.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver for most professions... but eventually it's not necessary to paladins offensively, as Aura of the Arkati does its job better. Still extraordinarily valuable defensively to avoid RT lock, though.
* '''Feint''': Staple setup maneuver for most professions... but eventually it's not necessary to paladins offensively, as Aura of the Arkati does its job better. Still extraordinarily valuable defensively to avoid RT lock, though.
* '''Precision''': Very useful when using war hammers--or morning stars, for that matter. I prefer war hammers since I'd much rather trade 0.025 DF for -1 RT on assault techniques than the other way around. (That's true in general, but especially true on a paladin due to high AS, Arm of the Arkati, and more flares from Holy Weapon and/or Fervor encouraging more swings per minute.)
* '''Precision''': Very useful when using war hammers--or morning stars, for that matter. I prefer war hammers since I'd much rather trade 0.025 DF for -1 RT on assault techniques than the other way around. (That's true in general, but especially true on a paladin due to high AS, Arm of the Arkati, and more flares from Holy Weapon and/or Fervor encouraging more swings per minute.)
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. Overkill AS.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. Overkill AS.
* '''Spin Attack''': Dinaden and others alerted me to the incredible value here. Basically, anything that adds another 3-seconds-or-less option to the paladin toolkit is extraordinarily welcome. I'll say more about this in notes.
* '''Spin Attack''': Dinaden and others alerted me to the incredible value here. Basically, anything that adds another 2-seconds-or-less option to the paladin toolkit is welcome. I'll say more about this in notes.
* '''Surge of Strength''': Even more overkill AS that also serves the purpose of buffing Concussive Blows.
* '''Surge of Strength''': Even more overkill AS that also serves the purpose of buffing Concussive Blows.
* '''True Strike''': Mostly a forward-thinking choice that looks to continue hitting overleveled creatures in Ascension grounds or even the later rounds of Duskruin Arena. Even looking at it in the context of normal creatures, though, rank 4 True Strike is on average +25 to your endrolls.
* '''Weapon Specialization''': Still more overkill AS.
* '''Weapon Specialization''': Still more overkill AS.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==

I initially took True Strike over Spin Attack before others told me just how strong Spin Attack was. I still think True Strike is a very forward-thinking choice; I don't see it as especially useful in the current game as it competes with weapon techniques for stamina usage, but the world of hitting overleveled enemies in Ascension grounds or just while leveling is a different story. I might still find a way to fit it into her maneuvers if I end up liking Ascension ground.

I tinkered with the numbers to consider dropping some number of ranks between Combat Toughness and True Strike to take Groin Kick for defense against bandits, but just couldn't talk myself into it. Paladins have perfectly good maneuver defense, especially one like mine who's not in full plate, so I was only concerned with avoiding Feint since a wider variety of enemies use it.


Training Stance Perfection to move parrying ahead of evasion in the combat order of operations is something to consider for any build with blunt, edged, or two-handed weapons trained. That said, paladins have neither Parry Specialization nor the Combat Mastery feat, so their opportunities for Clobber, Riposte, or Reverse Strike will only be a third as common as warriors'.
Training Stance Perfection to move parrying ahead of evasion in the combat order of operations is something to consider for any build with blunt, edged, or two-handed weapons trained. That said, paladins have neither Parry Specialization nor the Combat Mastery feat, so their opportunities for Clobber, Riposte, or Reverse Strike will only be a third as common as warriors'.
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I don't see any of those reasons applying to paladins, though. Area of effect and assault weapon techniques are better uses of stamina, but have cooldowns. Divine Incarnation Smite is a better use of RT, but only has limited uses in a ten-minute window. Judgment is arguably a better use of RT, but only given a sufficient number of enemies--and, even then, still likely only in a context where the paladin's area of effect technique is on cooldown.
I don't see any of those reasons applying to paladins, though. Area of effect and assault weapon techniques are better uses of stamina, but have cooldowns. Divine Incarnation Smite is a better use of RT, but only has limited uses in a ten-minute window. Judgment is arguably a better use of RT, but only given a sufficient number of enemies--and, even then, still likely only in a context where the paladin's area of effect technique is on cooldown.


So the real question is Spin Attack against True Strike. Obviously my answer is that both have their place, which is why my paladin has 4 ranks of each. Spin Attack should generally be the better option since it's a second faster--indeed, it's the fastest attack in her repertoire--but True Strike wins against creatures that are especially difficult to hit.
The bottom line is that a paladin can rotate between Spin Attack, Divine Incarnation Smite, Judgment, and assault techniques for pretty sustainable three-RT-or-less attacks throughout a hunt.

(Each does come with a caveat, though. Spin Attack needs to be backed by an infused spell in a bonded weapon to compensate for the lack of aiming. Smite needs to be backed by heavy training in Religion lore for power and/or Spiritual Mana Control for number of uses. Judgment needs to be backed by heavy Paladin Base ranks. Assault techniques need to be backed by Multi Opponent Combat ''and'' Combat Maneuvers.)


</div>
</div>
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=Ranger=
=Ranger=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Focus focus 5/5
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Dirtkick dirtkick 5/5
Combat Focus focus 5/5 Passive
Disarm Weapon disarm 1/5 Warrior Guild
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Feint feint 5/5 Warrior Guild
Dirtkick dirtkick 4/5 Setup
Groin Kick gkick 4/5
Feint feint 5/5 Setup Warrior Guild
Hamstring hamstring 3/5
Groin Kick gkick 4/5 Setup
Shield Bash sbash 3/5
Hamstring hamstring 3/5 Setup
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Shield Bash sbash 3/5 Setup
Sweep sweep 5/5 Rogue Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Sweep sweep 5/5 Setup Rogue Guild
Trip trip 3/5 Setup
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
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* '''Combat Focus''': Pushing rangers' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
* '''Combat Focus''': Pushing rangers' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own. Even more useless for archer rangers than most other professions and builds since they have exceptional DS.
* '''Combat Movement''': Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own. Even more useless for archer rangers than most other professions and builds since they have exceptional DS.
* '''Dirtkick''': The most relevant (and thematic) maneuver for an archer ranger since it deters enemies from evading or blocking their arrows.
* '''Dirtkick''': The most thematic maneuver for an archer ranger since it deters enemies from evading or blocking their arrows. Do I ever use it? Nope.
* '''Disarm Weapon''': Purely here for defensive purposes.
* '''Feint''': Purely here for defensive purposes against many enemies.
* '''Feint''': Purely here for defensive purposes.
* '''Groin Kick''': Purely here for defensive purposes against bandits and pirates.
* '''Groin Kick''': Purely here for defensive purposes.
* '''Hamstring''': Purely here for defensive purposes against bandits and pirates.
* '''Hamstring''': Purely here for defensive purposes. My ranger doesn't even train for edged weapons.
* '''Shield Bash''': Purely here for defensive purposes against various enemies.
* '''Shield Bash''': Purely here for defensive purposes. My ranger doesn't even train for shields.
* '''Side by Side''': Purely here for defensive purposes--and not even the ranger's own, since more DS isn't that needed, but more so aid to group members. The AS boost doesn't even apply to ranged.
* '''Side by Side''': Purely here for defensive purposes--and not even the ranger's own, since more DS isn't that needed, but more so aid to group members. The AS boost doesn't even apply to ranged.
* '''Sweep''': ''Almost'' purely here for defensive purposes. Tangleweed is generally better offensively, but adding Vulnerable is helpful.
* '''Sweep''': The one good thing here! Tangleweed is generally better, but Sweep does have its niche since it's faster, adds RT, adds Vulnerable, isn't subject to hindrance, and uses stamina, which has less competition than mana.
* '''Trip''': Purely here for defensive purposes in the Hinterwilds.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==


Cunning Defense is probably good at lower levels, but extraneous at higher levels as rangers grow into exceptional maneuver defense. Dislodge exists and is meant for ranged, but I don't think rangers need it at all when they have spells. Retreat almost makes sense, but doesn't since it just breaks on your next offensive maneuver anyway. True Strike would be an option if it could aim, but it can't.
Cunning Defense is probably good at lower levels, but extraneous at higher levels as rangers grow into exceptional maneuver defense. Dislodge exists and is meant for ranged, but I don't think rangers need it at all when they have spells. Retreat almost makes sense, but doesn't since it just breaks on your next offensive maneuver anyway. True Strike would be an option if it could aim, but it can't. Disarm Weapon will be an option if more capped hunting with disarming is added at some point.


</div>
</div>


=Rogue=
=Rogue=

'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''


==Option 1: Open Combat With Dual Katars==
==Option 1: Open Combat With Dual Katars==


Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheapshots cheapshots 6/6 Rogue Guild
Cheapshots cheapshots 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Combat Focus focus 3/5
Combat Focus focus 3/5 Passive
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1 Passive
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3/5
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 4/5 Attack
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3
Divert divert 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Eyepoke eyepoke 6/6 Rogue Guild
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3 Passive
Footstomp footstomp 6/6 Rogue Guild
Eyepoke eyepoke 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Hamstring hamstring 3/5
Footstomp footstomp 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5
Hamstring hamstring 2/5 Setup
Kneebash kneebash 6/6 Rogue Guild
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5 Passive
Mug mug 5/5
Kneebash kneebash 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Nosetweak nosetweak 6/6 Rogue Guild
Mug mug 1/5 Attack
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Nosetweak nosetweak 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Stun Maneuvers stunman 6/6 Rogue Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Subdue subdue 6/6 Rogue Guild
Stun Maneuvers stunman 6/6 Buff Rogue Guild
Surge of Strength surge 5/5
Subdue subdue 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Sweep sweep 6/6 Rogue Guild
Sweep sweep 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Swiftkick swiftkick 6/6 Rogue Guild
Swiftkick swiftkick 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Templeshot templeshot 6/6 Rogue Guild
Templeshot templeshot 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Throatchop throatchop 6/6 Rogue Guild
Throatchop throatchop 6/6 Setup Rogue Guild
Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3
Weapon Specializatio wspec 4/5 Passive
Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3 Martial Stance
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
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==Context==
==Context==


My rogue wears robes and uses dual katars while having two hand crossbows as a backup option. She uses ranged exclusively for Volley and will probably train Ambush ranks in the future to use it as a primary attack form too. ''She doesn't use stealth and Subdue is only there because it comes through the guild.''
My rogue wears robes and uses dual katars while having ranged as a backup option used exclusively for Volley. ''She doesn't use stealth and Subdue is only there because it comes through the guild.''


==Explanation==
==Explanation==
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For the sake of this not being excessively lengthy, I won't talk about any of the rogue guild maneuvers except to say that Kneebash, Sweep, Swiftkick, and Throatchop are all very useful.
For the sake of this not being excessively lengthy, I won't talk about any of the rogue guild maneuvers except to say that Kneebash, Sweep, Swiftkick, and Throatchop are all very useful.


* '''Combat Focus''': This is my only character whose Combat Focus I intend to have a rank other than 0 or 5. I still like some TD protection, but it's not as crucial for a build that uses edged weapons and Evade Specialization. Both can trigger Evasiveness, which works around enemy spells. On top of that, rogues have Throatchop and various ways to inflict Staggered.
* '''Combat Focus''': I like some TD protection, but it's not as crucial for a build that uses edged weapons and Evade Specialization. Both can trigger Evasiveness, which works around enemy spells. On top of that, rogues have Throatchop and various ways to inflict Staggered.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Crucial to survival for an open combat rogue.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Crucial to survival for an open combat rogue.
* '''Coup de Grace''': Weapon Specialization doesn't work on hybrid weapons like katars, so getting extra AS in some other fashion is valuable. Three ranks are enough to meet the conditions, as a rogue with edged and ranged trained gets a lot of damage over time going with Slashing Strikes and Volley pulling enemies into the right health range; the latter even adds stun for you most of the time.
* '''Coup de Grace''': Weapon Specialization doesn't work on hybrid weapons like katars, so getting extra AS in some other fashion is valuable. Four ranks are usually enough to meet the conditions, as a rogue with edged and ranged trained gets a lot of damage over time going with Slashing Strikes and Volley pulling enemies into the right health range; the latter even adds stun for you most of the time.
* '''Hamstring''': Works well with two weapons.
* '''Hamstring''': With two weapons, it's one of the strongest combat maneuvers in the game, if not at the very top!
* '''Evade Specialization''': Always half the cornerstone of Spin Kick builds.
* '''Evade Specialization''': Always half the cornerstone of Spin Kick builds.
* '''Kick Specialization''': Always the other half.
* '''Kick Specialization''': Always the other half.
* '''Mug''': I want extra treasure and none of the other remaining options for maneuver points felt important enough to outweigh that! I'll say more on that in my other considerations.
* '''Mug''': I want extra treasure! That said, Mug is the type of maneuver that only cares whether your endroll is 101 or higher, so I didn't feel a need for more than one rank.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Surge of Strength''': AS booster to make up for the relatively low power of edged weapons.
* '''Weapon Specialization''': Another AS booster.
* '''Whirling Dervish''': I can't imagine going for anything other than this on a two weapon combat rogue.
* '''Whirling Dervish''': I can't imagine going for anything other than this on a two weapon combat rogue.


==Other Considerations==
==Other Considerations==


Duck and Weave would make so much sense on a light armor Evade Specialization rogue who has ''one'' weapon that I theorycrafted the whole thing out and will present that soon enough too, but on a two weapon rogue I just don't see foregoing Whirling Dervish for more offensive power.
Slippery Mind would make enough sense on an Evade Specialization rogue in robes who has ''one'' weapon that I theorycrafted the whole thing out and will maybe post that on this page at some point, but on a two weapon rogue I just don't see foregoing Whirling Dervish for more offensive power. In any case, it's arguably a better use of points than the last two ranks of Combat Focus would have been--not that I trained those either, of course!


Feint is offensively redundant with a rogue's other tools, but always a consideration for defense against an RT-inducing maneuver if nothing else.
In a vacuum, Slippery Mind is arguably a better use of points than the last two ranks of Combat Focus would have been (not that I trained those), but once again I can't justify it when Whirling Dervish exists.

I'll look into Spell Thieve if I find that I like going to spell sever hunting grounds on a rogue, but at that point the whole build would probably need to be reconsidered.

Feint is always at least a consideration, but seems redundant with Swiftkick also present.


</div>
</div>
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=Warrior=
=Warrior=


'''Last updated August 7, 2023'''
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Berserk berserk 6/6 Warrior Guild
Skill Mnemonic Ranks Type Category Subcategory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Combat Focus focus 5/5
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1
Berserk berserk 6/6 Attack Warrior Guild
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5
Combat Focus focus 3/5 Passive
Disarm Weapon disarm 6/6 Warrior Guild
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1 Passive
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3
Combat Movement cmovement 2/5 Passive
Feint feint 6/6 Warrior Guild
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3/5 Attack
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5
Disarm Weapon disarm 6/6 Setup Warrior Guild
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5
Evade Specialization evadespec 3/3 Passive
Spin Attack sattack 6/6 Warrior Guild
Feint feint 6/6 Setup Warrior Guild
Stance Perfection stance 2/2 Warrior Guild
Kick Specialization kickspec 5/5 Passive
Surge of Strength surge 5/5
Side by Side sidebyside 5/5 Passive
Tackle tackle 6/6 Warrior Guild
Spin Attack sattack 6/6 Attack Warrior Guild
True Strike truestrike 2/5
Stance Perfection stance 2/2 Passive Warrior Guild
Weapon Specialization wspec 5/5
Surge of Strength surge 5/5 Buff
Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3
Tackle tackle 6/6 Setup Warrior Guild
Weapon Specializatio wspec 5/5 Passive
Whirling Dervish dervish 3/3 Martial Stance
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
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* '''Berserk''': Now relegated to use in Duskruin Arena only.
* '''Berserk''': Now relegated to use in Duskruin Arena only.
* '''Combat Focus''': A necessary step to bringing TD back in line for a warrior in robes. (I do plan to learn Elemental Barrier and Lesser Shroud for her, but at that point we're talking years down the line.)
* '''Combat Focus''': A necessary step to bringing TD back in line for a warrior in robes, even after the point of learning Elemental Barrier and Lesser Shroud, Five ranks are too much opportunity cost, so I decided to make up the rest and then some with +TD robes--which are much more readily available in playershops than people might think! You do have to give up the flare slot, though.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Even in plate I'd argue this is a very strong contender for anyone's maneuver points, but in any armor below chain I'd go further and call it a must-have.
* '''Combat Mobility''': Even in plate I'd argue this is a very strong contender for anyone's maneuver points, but in any armor below chain I'd go further and call it a must-have.
* '''Combat Movement''': Basic prerequisite for Side by Side.
* '''Coup de Grace''': AS booster. I think three ranks are fine on a lance wielder since the weapon hits so hard it's likely to put enemies within range.
* '''Disarm Weapon''': Here because it comes free from the guild, but I doubt I'd train it otherwise.
* '''Disarm Weapon''': Here because it comes free from the guild, but I doubt I'd train it otherwise.
* '''Evade Specialization''': The key to my warrior's entire build since it fuels Radial Sweep and Spin Kick depending on what's in her hands.
* '''Evade Specialization''': The key to my warrior's entire build since it fuels Radial Sweep and Spin Kick depending on what's in her hands.
* '''Feint''': Free from the guild, but I'm undecided on whether I'd train it otherwise. Warriors have numerous other disabling options.
* '''Feint''': Free from the guild, but I'm undecided on whether I'd train it otherwise. I'm overall not a fan of war cries moving to stamina, but Gerrelle's Growl being among them is definitely one of the upsides. It costs less stamina than Feint, but doesn't inflict RT. Normally that's a notable downside when comparing the two, but in a lot of cases I might prefer the enemy to attack since that means more opportunities at Radial Sweep and Spin Kick.
* '''Kick Specialization''': Some hunting grounds are more manageable with unarmed combat than a lance, and in those places Spin Kick shines.
* '''Kick Specialization''': Some hunting grounds or individual enemies are more manageable with unarmed combat than a lance, so Spin Kick shines in those situations.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Side by Side''': Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
* '''Spin Attack''': Free from the guild. Despite giving a brief boost to Dodging, I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise.
* '''Spin Attack''': Free from the guild. Despite giving a brief boost to Dodging, I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise.
* '''Stance Perfection''': Free from the guild, but I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise. That's me specifically, though, only because the order of evasion, blocking, and parrying is already exactly as I want it by default.
* '''Stance Perfection''': Free from the guild, but I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise. That's me specifically, though, only because the order of evasion, blocking, and parrying is already exactly as I want it by default.
* '''Surge of Strength''': Too classic an AS booster for me to forego, even though brawling and ranged don't need it. I do think that Surge is the kind of maneuver that demands either five ranks or none, as the recovery period is too long even at four ranks.
* '''Surge of Strength''': Too classic an AS booster for me to forego, even though brawling and ranged don't need it. I do think that Surge is the kind of maneuver that demands either five ranks or none, as the recovery period is too long even at four ranks.
* '''Tackle''': Free from the guild and essentially the warrior version of Sweep.
* '''Tackle''': Free from the guild. I'd still consider training it otherwise, for defense against patchwork flesh monstrosities if nothing else, but it's not especially amazing offensively coming from an elf.
* '''True Strike''': A forward-thinking choice. I don't think it's especially useful in the current game as it competes with weapon techniques for stamina usage, but it could be strong for hitting overleveled enemies in Ascension grounds.
* '''Weapon Specialization''': Give me all the AS.
* '''Weapon Specialization''': Give me all the AS.
* '''Whirling Dervish''': I used to prefer Executioner's Stance of the two, but heavy use of assaults is much less killer on stamina than heavy use of mstrikes. A multi-weapon build also plays better with Dervish.
* '''Whirling Dervish''': I used to prefer Executioner's Stance of the two, but heavy use of assaults is much less killer on stamina than heavy use of mstrikes used to be. A multi-weapon build also plays better with Dervish.


==Additional Considerations==
==Additional Considerations==
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Practically everything.
Practically everything.


Coup de Grace was in the running and was the last cut I made. There's a non-zero chance it'll find its way back into my choices since it gives more AS than Seanette's Shout. Trip and Vault Kick were also in the running. If I end up taking any of these, it'll probably happen because amazing custom maneuver messaging was released for one of them and I'll want it at the expense of some combination of one or two ranks of Combat Focus, one or two ranks of Side by Side, one or two ranks of True Strike, and any number of ranks of Whirling Dervish.
True Strike and Trip were the last two cuts made. If I end up taking either, it'll probably happen because amazing custom maneuver messaging was released for one of them and I'll want it at the expense of some combination of a rank of Combat Focus, a rank of Coup de Grace, one or two ranks of Side by Side, and one or two ranks of Weapon Specialization.


Lances and unarmed combat (and even ranged, to a lesser extent) prefer Evade Specialization to get their reactions going, and along with that goes Kick Specialization.
Lances and unarmed combat (and even ranged, to a lesser extent) prefer Evade Specialization to get their reactions going, and along with that goes Kick Specialization.
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Griffin's Voice was my preferred martial stance before the changes so I could consistently keep up Horland's Holler, but that's no longer necessary. Some other warriors feel the opposite and now want Griffin's Voice after overlooking it before. I think that comes down to a playstyle difference; I'd almost never use Carn's Cry, for example, since I want the enemy attacking me so I can evade and react. By the same logic, I ''am'' interested in Horland's Holler, but even with max Griffin's Voice, the stamina cost is a bit too much to justify using it more than once in a while.
Griffin's Voice was my preferred martial stance before the changes so I could consistently keep up Horland's Holler, but that's no longer necessary. Some other warriors feel the opposite and now want Griffin's Voice after overlooking it before. I think that comes down to a playstyle difference; I'd almost never use Carn's Cry, for example, since I want the enemy attacking me so I can evade and react. By the same logic, I ''am'' interested in Horland's Holler, but even with max Griffin's Voice, the stamina cost is a bit too much to justify using it more than once in a while.


Bearhug's Strength bonus is great, but the maneuver on its own is better for larger races, and in any case it's not how I picture my character battling. Bull Rush is better for larger races and, despite being one of the best maneuvers in the game, is a bit redundant for lightly armored polearm warriors, who already have Radial Sweep for area of effect knockdowns. Combat Toughness is likewise a great consideration for plate warriors, but less useful to robe warriors.
Bearhug's Strength bonus is great for the group, but the individual warrior doesn't need it if she already has Surge, and in any case it's not how I picture my character battling. Bull Rush is one of the best maneuvers in the game, but lightly armored polearm warriors already have Radial Sweep and (eventually) Elemental Wave for area of effect knockdowns. Combat Toughness is likewise a great consideration for plate warriors who have legitimate worries about getting plinked to death, but less useful to robe warriors whose deaths are more likely to crits.


Headbutt would be useful, but isn't how I picture my character battling. Haymaker would be even more useful and ''is'' how I picture my character battling, but I still thought I had better options like Trip and Vault Kick.
Headbutt would be useful, but isn't how I picture my character battling. Haymaker would be even more useful and ''is'' how I picture my character battling, but I still thought I had better options.


</div>
</div>

[[Category:Guides]]

Latest revision as of 17:58, 26 November 2024

This is a guide, tutorial, or gameplay strategy written by one or more players to better assist others with their gameplay enjoyment. The information presented here may be subject to the personal opinion of the contributor(s), and may additionally require periodic updates to keep current as the game environment changes.

Title: Combat Maneuver Choices

Author: Leafiara

Date Published: 2021-07-11

Updated: 2023-08-07


(click here to open all collapsed sections on this page)

Preamble

This page mostly assesses combat maneuvers from the perspective of post-cap characters, but even while leveling, there are often insights to be found from reading others' thought processes. Below is my process in case others find it helpful!

Bard

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cheapshots           cheapshots      5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Combat Focus         focus           3/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Dirtkick             dirtkick        3/5   Setup                                          
 Eyepoke              eyepoke         5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Feint                feint           4/5   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Footstomp            footstomp       5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Groin Kick           gkick           3/5   Setup                                          
 Hamstring            hamstring       5/5   Setup                                          
 Kneebash             kneebash        5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Nosetweak            nosetweak       5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Sweep                sweep           5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Swiftkick            swiftkick       5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Templeshot           templeshot      5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Throatchop           throatchop      5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 True Strike          truestrike      4/5   Attack                                                                          

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1


Click here for explanations!

Context

My bard uses a lance in most settings, but dual short swords in the Hinterwilds, and she might train for katars in the future. She has fully trained 2x spells and wears robes.

Explanation

Bards are pretty scant on maneuver options that aren't outclassed in some way by their magical options, so many of her picks are there for lack of anything better to do. That said, the ones that are good are exceptional.

  • Cheapshots: Offensively a bard doesn't need any of these, though Swiftkick could be argued as better than Feint in some situations, but improved defense against nearly the entire suite of bandit maneuvers for thirty points is very compelling.
  • Combat Focus: Almost a gimme since bards' major weakness is TD. I'd recommend this to every bard unless they hunt bandits 100% of the time.
  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
  • Dirtkick: Somewhat filler, but out of bards' available maneuver options, this seemed to be one of the most likely to be valuable at least in very niche situations. Pirates do occasionally use this, so ranks for defense are decent.
  • Feint: Staple setup maneuver for many professions. Bards are no exception! Better than Swiftkick at inflicting RT.
  • Groin Kick: Another somewhat filler maneuver. I think Dirtkick is easily the better of the two for offense, but training this one helps defend against bandits in addition to pirates.
  • Hamstring: Arguably the best offensive combat maneuver for bards, this tears through just about anything. I found that four ranks are enough to hit consistently even against level 115 Hinterwilds foes, but going all the way makes Major Bleed that much better.
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
  • Sweep: The other arguable best offensive combat maneuver. Applying Vulnerable is among the best status effects you could hope for and Staggered probably is the single best status effect.
  • True Strike: My thought here is that the EBP reduction can really help with hitting overleveled creatures in Ascension grounds or turtling creatures anywhere, but the Hinterwilds have pretty well proven that Hamstring and Sweep are the best melee-based openers in those situations. Assault techniques are almost always a better followup than True Strike, but it's a reasonable option when they're on cooldown.

Additional Considerations

I originally had one rank of Precision on her list since it can provide extra versatility for situations where one damage type is more useful than others and it's hard to find much more value for four points. That said, lances and arguably even short swords and katars don't care that much about damage type, so I've left it off for now. If I want it back in the future, the points will probably come from Groin Kick.

Taking Spin Attack is an option, but I feel that True Strike outweighs it, never mind the other available maneuvers and weapon techniques. Vault Kick is the sort of maneuver I want to like thematically, but I tried and it never delivered for me.

Cleric

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Dirtkick             dirtkick        2/5   Setup                                          
 Feint                feint           5/5   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Groin Kick           gkick           5/5   Setup                                          
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                    
Click here for explanations!

Context

My cleric uses a falchion and katar alongside her spells. That said, I'd train almost exactly the same things on a cleric--or indeed any pure--regardless of their build, with minor tweaks made mostly to accommodate RP.

Explanation

Clerics' maneuver options are very few, but even then, some stand out as more helpful than others largely for defensive reasons.

  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
  • Dirtkick: One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but clerics have better things to do. I took it just for fun when helping lower level characters on their bounties.
  • Feint: Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every cleric, this is it.
  • Groin Kick: Amusingly enough, this and Feint are a cleric's best ways to inflict RT on the enemy. Being hilarious is a bonus! ...as is getting extra defense against bandits. Now if only it worked with UAC shoes...
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS gains here are more necessary for running a war cleric than any other build, including even war sorcerers since the latter have access to a larger number of non-native AS boosters.

Additional Considerations

If pures eventually have the ability to learn weapon techniques through Ascension, I'll probably either drop a rank of Dirtkick to take a rank of Precision or drop a rank of Groin Kick to take both ranks of Precision. The added versatility isn't to be overlooked.

I can see Cunning Defense as worthwhile for a cleric who has no Combat Maneuvers nor Dodging nor 2x Perception, but it becomes unnecessary overkill with diminishing returns after a while. By the end, the full five ranks are only giving around +2 defense against maneuver rolls.

Empath

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Cunning Defense      cdefense        5/5   Passive                                        
 Dirtkick             dirtkick        3/5   Setup                                          
 Feint                feint           5/5   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Groin Kick           gkick           1/5   Setup                                          
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Trip                 trip            1/5   Setup                                          
Click here for explanations!

Context

My empath uses a maul alongside her spells. That said, I'd train almost exactly the same things on an empath--or indeed any pure--regardless of their build, with minor tweaks made mostly to accommodate RP.

Explanation

Empaths' maneuver options are very few, but even then, some stand out as more helpful than others largely for defensive reasons.

  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
  • Cunning Defense: I don't think this is the optimal mechanical choice since the math works out that it's giving a whopping -2 or so to enemies' maneuver rolls, at least in the post-cap range. That said, since empaths have 3x Physical Fitness, I figured I'd go all in on accentuating one of their strengths by pushing maneuver defense to the utmost.
  • Dirtkick: One of the few maneuvers that works just as effectively in more defensive stances, but empaths have better things to do. Still fun, though.
  • Feint: Staple setup maneuver that's extremely useful both offensively and defensively. If there's one maneuver to train on every empath, this is it.
  • Groin Kick: Another pick just for fun and because spare points were there. Like clerics, empaths can't inflict RT on enemies without this or Feint; unlike clerics, however, empaths would never have a need to do that since almost nothing is immune to Sympathy.
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
  • Trip: Two points remained and had to go somewhere.

Additional Considerations

There's a case for swapping the number of ranks for Dirtkick and Groin Kick. The latter does give better defense against bandits. That said, empaths' maneuver defense is already very strong and I can at least imagine a scenario where an empath would want to stall out an enemy with Dirtkick while healing down, in which case they'd need a maneuver that works in more defensive stances.

I considered Disarm Weapon, but don't think it's especially helpful since Spirit Servant can retrieve gear and empaths have solid maneuver defense. I was excited for Retreat when its design was revealed, but higher level enemies--the one thing I'd want to retreat from--can close the distance and attack through it anyway.

Monk

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Burst of Swiftness   burst           5/5   Buff                                           
 Combat Focus         focus           2/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Mobility      mobility        1/1   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Coup de Grace        coupdegrace     5/5   Attack                                         
 Evade Specialization evadespec       3/3   Passive                                        
 Ki Focus             kifocus         3/3   Buff                                           
 Kick Specialization  kickspec        5/5   Passive                                        
 Rolling Krynch Stanc krynch          3/3   Martial Stance                                 
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Click here for explanations!

Context

My monk is primarily a brawler with a conventional build, but can also use dual katars for the sake of having more AoE weapon techniques available against creatures with particularly low DS.

Explanation

Monks have an excellent set of combat maneuvers available and can be extremely versatile with them. I usually prefer versatility over min-maxing, but in this case I think it's better to min-max--or, in other words, to go deep into an idea rather than go wide. This can work with any of the unarmed combat specializations, but I'll explain mine and then make the case for the others.

The short of it is that Spin Kick with max Kick Specialization is by far the strongest single-target reaction technique and can often pick off enemies one by one more quickly than anything else you could be doing.

  • Burst of Swiftness: My monk is an elf, so having Perfect Self and maxed Burst of Swiftness in conjunction with ten Ascension ranks each of Agility and Dexterity puts her just over the highest Agidex threshold and really makes assault techniques or even mstrikes shine. Burst of Swiftness also has various other benefits like adding additional weighting, increasing Major Bleed damage from Slashing Strikes, slightly increasing evasion rate, and slightly increasing UAF.
  • Combat Focus: Virtually a gimme for a monk, whose main weakness is TD.
  • Combat Mobility: Before PSM3, I considered this very solid for monks, but not a must-have since they're great at avoiding attacks even while prone. Now I consider it a must-have on a Spin Kick build since they need to be standing to use it.
  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own.
  • Coup de Grace: I'm not willing to forego Vertigo to have Martial Mastery, which means monk AS isn't great. Coup serves a dual purpose of raising AS and finishing off enemies that fell short of being killed, which isn't too uncommon when attacking with katars or AoE. For the other squares, I think two or three ranks are fine, but because of monks' comparatively lower AS, I like a full five ranks to keep this active as frequently as possible.
  • Evade Specialization: Half of the linchpin of the Spin Kick build since you get an additional 10% chance to dodge and react.
  • Ki Focus: With enough lore investment (for Mind Over Body), Physical Fitness, and potentially Stamina Regeneration from Ascension, you can use this near constantly.
  • Kick Specialization': The other half of the linchpin of Spin Kick builds. There aren't many better feelings in the game than being stuck in RT lock from Elemental Wave or similar effects, but then standing up with Combat Mobility and kicking everything to death before the RT ends.
  • Rolling Krynch Stance: A staple of unarmed combat, especially if you don't mind fighting multiple creatures at once.
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. The AS is really helpful for monks who use weapons but don't have Martial Mastery, since they otherwise fall way short of other squares (and paladins).

Additional Considerations

I had Hamstring at one point. While I do believe it just might be the best combat maneuver in the game, I also believe it needs to go all in with five ranks to outshine alternatives like Twin Hammerfists to the degree it should. If I ever want it back, Coup de Grace is probably what will go, but Coup is pretty exceptional in its own right in the hands of a monk. They actually fill sort of similar roles, but in reverse: either lead off with Hamstring to get a ton of bleed damage going before letting UAC finish the job or lead off with UAC to get in the initial damage before letting Coup finish the job.

Ultimately, monks are the only profession where I lean toward Coup (given a choice between the two) because of UAC being so capable of inflicting disablers while simultaneously dealing hard hits. It also helps that Coup works on undead while Hamstring doesn't.

I also had Surge of Strength at one point since it can shore up AS, but I eventually decided that monks without Martial Mastery should only use weapons against creatures that naturally have low DS in the first place.

There's a case to be made for Slippery Mind to have better defense against warding attacks, but as more and more overleveled Ascension creatures get released, Rolling Krynch's flat chance to preserve higher tiers of unarmed combat only gets progressively more valuable. Of course, the same could be said for Slippery Mind, but not every creature uses magic.

There's a case to be made for Duck and Weave for its synergy with Evade Specialization, but it's very dependent on the area. It works best in places where the enemies are hard hitting yet squishy.

There's a question of why my monk has Combat Focus instead of training any of her disabling options--Headbutt, Sweep, Cheapshots--in an attempt to stop enemies from casting at all. I don't think it's reasonable to assume you can hit first 100% of the time, but even if you could, I'd say you can accomplish the goal with Twin Hammerfists and don't need to spend valuable CM points on it.

A Martial Mastery monk who primarily battles with edged, blunt, or two-handed weapons is the use case for taking Parry Specialization over Evade Specialization, since their reaction techniques trigger from parries, but at that point you also need to take two ranks of Stance Perfection to prioritize parrying over evading. I don't like the point sink.

Paladin

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Combat Focus         focus           5/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Toughness     toughness       1/3   Passive                                        
 Feint                feint           5/5   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Spin Attack          sattack         4/5   Attack         Warrior Guild                   
 Surge of Strength    surge           5/5   Buff                                           
 True Strike          truestrike      4/5   Attack                                         
 Weapon Specializatio wspec           5/5   Passive                                        

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1                     
Click here for explanations!

Context

My paladin uses two war hammers as her primary weapons, has fully trained 2x spells, and wears metal breastplate instead of full plate.

Explanation

One "problem" with paladins is that they can reach overwhelming enough AS and CS advantages over enemy DS and TD that they don't need setups outside of really high end areas. Despite having many combat maneuver options, a number of them are redundant in light of either weapon techniques, their spells, or both, so I gravitated toward passive abilities.

  • Combat Focus: Pushing paladins' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side. Very slightly less useless for a two weapon paladin than it is for other professions and builds since their DS isn't exceptional.
  • Combat Toughness: The first rank is a very solid +15 health for its cost and can help against getting slowly poked to death.
  • Feint: Staple setup maneuver for most professions... but eventually it's not necessary to paladins offensively, as Aura of the Arkati does its job better. Still extraordinarily valuable defensively to avoid RT lock, though.
  • Precision: Very useful when using war hammers--or morning stars, for that matter. I prefer war hammers since I'd much rather trade 0.025 DF for -1 RT on assault techniques than the other way around. (That's true in general, but especially true on a paladin due to high AS, Arm of the Arkati, and more flares from Holy Weapon and/or Fervor encouraging more swings per minute.)
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups. Overkill AS.
  • Spin Attack: Dinaden and others alerted me to the incredible value here. Basically, anything that adds another 2-seconds-or-less option to the paladin toolkit is welcome. I'll say more about this in notes.
  • Surge of Strength: Even more overkill AS that also serves the purpose of buffing Concussive Blows.
  • True Strike: Mostly a forward-thinking choice that looks to continue hitting overleveled creatures in Ascension grounds or even the later rounds of Duskruin Arena. Even looking at it in the context of normal creatures, though, rank 4 True Strike is on average +25 to your endrolls.
  • Weapon Specialization: Still more overkill AS.

Additional Considerations

Training Stance Perfection to move parrying ahead of evasion in the combat order of operations is something to consider for any build with blunt, edged, or two-handed weapons trained. That said, paladins have neither Parry Specialization nor the Combat Mastery feat, so their opportunities for Clobber, Riposte, or Reverse Strike will only be a third as common as warriors'.

Tainted Bond is relatively less valuable to a build with multiple weapon types trained, or indeed even two weapons of the same type since it's not benefiting the offhand.

Elaborating on Spin Attack

When paladins got Spin Attack, I overlooked it because I was used to overlooking it. Even now, I don't see it as especially valuable to warriors, rogues, monks, rangers, or bards. Warriors and rogues have better things to do with their stamina, monks and bards have better things to do with their RT, and on a ranger I'm more interested in power boosts--from effects like Camouflage, Tangleweed, or even Spirit Strike--than speed increases.

I don't see any of those reasons applying to paladins, though. Area of effect and assault weapon techniques are better uses of stamina, but have cooldowns. Divine Incarnation Smite is a better use of RT, but only has limited uses in a ten-minute window. Judgment is arguably a better use of RT, but only given a sufficient number of enemies--and, even then, still likely only in a context where the paladin's area of effect technique is on cooldown.

So the real question is Spin Attack against True Strike. Obviously my answer is that both have their place, which is why my paladin has 4 ranks of each. Spin Attack should generally be the better option since it's a second faster--indeed, it's the fastest attack in her repertoire--but True Strike wins against creatures that are especially difficult to hit.

Ranger

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Combat Focus         focus           5/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Dirtkick             dirtkick        4/5   Setup                                          
 Feint                feint           5/5   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Groin Kick           gkick           4/5   Setup                                          
 Hamstring            hamstring       3/5   Setup                                          
 Shield Bash          sbash           3/5   Setup                                          
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Sweep                sweep           5/5   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Trip                 trip            3/5   Setup                                          

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Click here for explanations!

Context

My ranger uses a longbow and has fully trained 2x spells, but most things I'd say about his combat maneuver choices apply to any build.

Explanation

Rangers have such a poor selection of maneuver options, especially relative to their wide array of magical disablers, that nearly everything here was trained for defensive purposes.

  • Combat Focus: Pushing rangers' very solid combination of TD and CvA even higher.
  • Combat Movement: Mandatory prerequisite to Side by Side, but nearly useless on its own. Even more useless for archer rangers than most other professions and builds since they have exceptional DS.
  • Dirtkick: The most thematic maneuver for an archer ranger since it deters enemies from evading or blocking their arrows. Do I ever use it? Nope.
  • Feint: Purely here for defensive purposes against many enemies.
  • Groin Kick: Purely here for defensive purposes against bandits and pirates.
  • Hamstring: Purely here for defensive purposes against bandits and pirates.
  • Shield Bash: Purely here for defensive purposes against various enemies.
  • Side by Side: Purely here for defensive purposes--and not even the ranger's own, since more DS isn't that needed, but more so aid to group members. The AS boost doesn't even apply to ranged.
  • Sweep: The one good thing here! Tangleweed is generally better, but Sweep does have its niche since it's faster, adds RT, adds Vulnerable, isn't subject to hindrance, and uses stamina, which has less competition than mana.
  • Trip: Purely here for defensive purposes in the Hinterwilds.

Additional Considerations

Cunning Defense is probably good at lower levels, but extraneous at higher levels as rangers grow into exceptional maneuver defense. Dislodge exists and is meant for ranged, but I don't think rangers need it at all when they have spells. Retreat almost makes sense, but doesn't since it just breaks on your next offensive maneuver anyway. True Strike would be an option if it could aim, but it can't. Disarm Weapon will be an option if more capped hunting with disarming is added at some point.

Rogue

Last updated August 7, 2023

Option 1: Open Combat With Dual Katars

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Cheapshots           cheapshots      6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Combat Focus         focus           3/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Mobility      mobility        1/1   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Coup de Grace        coupdegrace     4/5   Attack                                         
 Divert               divert          6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Evade Specialization evadespec       3/3   Passive                                        
 Eyepoke              eyepoke         6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Footstomp            footstomp       6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Hamstring            hamstring       2/5   Setup                                          
 Kick Specialization  kickspec        5/5   Passive                                        
 Kneebash             kneebash        6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Mug                  mug             1/5   Attack                                         
 Nosetweak            nosetweak       6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Stun Maneuvers       stunman         6/6   Buff           Rogue Guild                     
 Subdue               subdue          6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Sweep                sweep           6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Swiftkick            swiftkick       6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Templeshot           templeshot      6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Throatchop           throatchop      6/6   Setup          Rogue Guild                     
 Weapon Specializatio wspec           4/5   Passive                                        
 Whirling Dervish     dervish         3/3   Martial Stance                                 

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Click here for explanations!

Context

My rogue wears robes and uses dual katars while having ranged as a backup option used exclusively for Volley. She doesn't use stealth and Subdue is only there because it comes through the guild.

Explanation

Open combat rogues have a wide array of combat maneuvers from the maneuver system, but also have so many options from the rogue guild alone that I found it impossible to justify training setup options and went mostly for direct boosts to offense and defense. Most of her choices are centered around light armor, evasiveness, and the flexibility of katars.

For the sake of this not being excessively lengthy, I won't talk about any of the rogue guild maneuvers except to say that Kneebash, Sweep, Swiftkick, and Throatchop are all very useful.

  • Combat Focus: I like some TD protection, but it's not as crucial for a build that uses edged weapons and Evade Specialization. Both can trigger Evasiveness, which works around enemy spells. On top of that, rogues have Throatchop and various ways to inflict Staggered.
  • Combat Mobility: Crucial to survival for an open combat rogue.
  • Coup de Grace: Weapon Specialization doesn't work on hybrid weapons like katars, so getting extra AS in some other fashion is valuable. Four ranks are usually enough to meet the conditions, as a rogue with edged and ranged trained gets a lot of damage over time going with Slashing Strikes and Volley pulling enemies into the right health range; the latter even adds stun for you most of the time.
  • Hamstring: With two weapons, it's one of the strongest combat maneuvers in the game, if not at the very top!
  • Evade Specialization: Always half the cornerstone of Spin Kick builds.
  • Kick Specialization: Always the other half.
  • Mug: I want extra treasure! That said, Mug is the type of maneuver that only cares whether your endroll is 101 or higher, so I didn't feel a need for more than one rank.
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
  • Weapon Specialization: Another AS booster.
  • Whirling Dervish: I can't imagine going for anything other than this on a two weapon combat rogue.

Other Considerations

Slippery Mind would make enough sense on an Evade Specialization rogue in robes who has one weapon that I theorycrafted the whole thing out and will maybe post that on this page at some point, but on a two weapon rogue I just don't see foregoing Whirling Dervish for more offensive power. In any case, it's arguably a better use of points than the last two ranks of Combat Focus would have been--not that I trained those either, of course!

Feint is offensively redundant with a rogue's other tools, but always a consideration for defense against an RT-inducing maneuver if nothing else.

Warrior

Last updated August 7, 2023

 Skill                Mnemonic        Ranks Type           Category        Subcategory
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Berserk              berserk         6/6   Attack         Warrior Guild                   
 Combat Focus         focus           3/5   Passive                                        
 Combat Mobility      mobility        1/1   Passive                                        
 Combat Movement      cmovement       2/5   Passive                                        
 Coup de Grace        coupdegrace     3/5   Attack                                         
 Disarm Weapon        disarm          6/6   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Evade Specialization evadespec       3/3   Passive                                        
 Feint                feint           6/6   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Kick Specialization  kickspec        5/5   Passive                                        
 Side by Side         sidebyside      5/5   Passive                                        
 Spin Attack          sattack         6/6   Attack         Warrior Guild                   
 Stance Perfection    stance          2/2   Passive        Warrior Guild                   
 Surge of Strength    surge           5/5   Buff                                           
 Tackle               tackle          6/6   Setup          Warrior Guild                   
 Weapon Specializatio wspec           5/5   Passive                                        
 Whirling Dervish     dervish         3/3   Martial Stance                                 

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 1
Click here for explanations!

Context

My warrior primarily uses a lance as her bonded weapon, unarmed combat as a viable backup, and trains ranged weapons exclusively for Volley. (She lacks the Ambush ranks to use ranged in a conventional way and I have no plans of changing that.) She wears robes for even more evasion to trigger Radial Sweep and Spin Kick more often.

Explanation

Warriors have an extraordinary variety of combat maneuvers, which results in plenty of challenging, interesting decisions. I honestly believe that players' maneuver choices for warriors will be more about playing into their intended character concepts than just looking for the mechanical best option, which might or might not even be a thing that exists now. I'll explain that more as I review my choices of what I trained and what I didn't.

My character concept before the changes had been to wield a lance, the hardest-hitting weapon base in the game, and use Berserk to negate its normal RT disadvantages. However, those disadvantages can now also be negated by area of effect weapon techniques, rendering Berserk no longer necessary and pushing me toward a multi-weapon build. From that choice, the maneuvers emerged...

  • Berserk: Now relegated to use in Duskruin Arena only.
  • Combat Focus: A necessary step to bringing TD back in line for a warrior in robes, even after the point of learning Elemental Barrier and Lesser Shroud, Five ranks are too much opportunity cost, so I decided to make up the rest and then some with +TD robes--which are much more readily available in playershops than people might think! You do have to give up the flare slot, though.
  • Combat Mobility: Even in plate I'd argue this is a very strong contender for anyone's maneuver points, but in any armor below chain I'd go further and call it a must-have.
  • Combat Movement: Basic prerequisite for Side by Side.
  • Coup de Grace: AS booster. I think three ranks are fine on a lance wielder since the weapon hits so hard it's likely to put enemies within range.
  • Disarm Weapon: Here because it comes free from the guild, but I doubt I'd train it otherwise.
  • Evade Specialization: The key to my warrior's entire build since it fuels Radial Sweep and Spin Kick depending on what's in her hands.
  • Feint: Free from the guild, but I'm undecided on whether I'd train it otherwise. Warriors have numerous other disabling options.
  • Kick Specialization: Some hunting grounds or individual enemies are more manageable with unarmed combat than a lance, so Spin Kick shines in those situations.
  • Side by Side: Staple booster for AS and DS in groups.
  • Spin Attack: Free from the guild. Despite giving a brief boost to Dodging, I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise.
  • Stance Perfection: Free from the guild, but I definitely wouldn't train it otherwise. That's me specifically, though, only because the order of evasion, blocking, and parrying is already exactly as I want it by default.
  • Surge of Strength: Too classic an AS booster for me to forego, even though brawling and ranged don't need it. I do think that Surge is the kind of maneuver that demands either five ranks or none, as the recovery period is too long even at four ranks.
  • Tackle: Free from the guild and essentially the warrior version of Sweep.
  • Weapon Specialization: Give me all the AS.
  • Whirling Dervish: I used to prefer Executioner's Stance of the two, but heavy use of assaults is much less killer on stamina than heavy use of mstrikes used to be. A multi-weapon build also plays better with Dervish.

Additional Considerations

Practically everything.

True Strike and Trip were the last two cuts made. If I end up taking either, it'll probably happen because amazing custom maneuver messaging was released for one of them and I'll want it at the expense of some combination of a rank of Combat Focus, a rank of Coup de Grace, one or two ranks of Side by Side, and one or two ranks of Weapon Specialization.

Lances and unarmed combat (and even ranged, to a lesser extent) prefer Evade Specialization to get their reactions going, and along with that goes Kick Specialization.

I like Precision a lot for one-handed weapons, but that's not my warrior. Staggering Blow, Spell Cleave, and Tainted Bond are less useful to a warrior who has multiple weapons trained. Acrobat's Leap and Leap Attack are nice, but unnecessary for a warrior who also uses ranged.

Griffin's Voice was my preferred martial stance before the changes so I could consistently keep up Horland's Holler, but that's no longer necessary. Some other warriors feel the opposite and now want Griffin's Voice after overlooking it before. I think that comes down to a playstyle difference; I'd almost never use Carn's Cry, for example, since I want the enemy attacking me so I can evade and react. By the same logic, I am interested in Horland's Holler, but even with max Griffin's Voice, the stamina cost is a bit too much to justify using it more than once in a while.

Bearhug's Strength bonus is great for the group, but the individual warrior doesn't need it if she already has Surge, and in any case it's not how I picture my character battling. Bull Rush is one of the best maneuvers in the game, but lightly armored polearm warriors already have Radial Sweep and (eventually) Elemental Wave for area of effect knockdowns. Combat Toughness is likewise a great consideration for plate warriors who have legitimate worries about getting plinked to death, but less useful to robe warriors whose deaths are more likely to crits.

Headbutt would be useful, but isn't how I picture my character battling. Haymaker would be even more useful and is how I picture my character battling, but I still thought I had better options.