Duskruin Arena/saved posts: Difference between revisions
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==July 2015== |
==July 2015== |
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{{#section:Duskruin/saved posts July 2015|savedpost}} |
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<section begin=savedpost2015-07 />{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1379 1379] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/11/2021 |
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| subject = Duskruin Updates Discussion |
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}} |
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''>>Re: Dispelling'' |
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Both spells will be dispelled at the beginning of every 3 second interval that the arena mechanics use. I plan on testing it some, but I might be able to leave 506 alone. The problem really boiled down to 515. |
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''>>I am looking forward to relearning a new arena, but you mentioned 12 opponents and at least 3 minute timer for one opponent with speed bonuses sounding reversed like the first release.'' |
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The timer is a total timer, and that was the case last time. So you have 6+ minutes to defeat all 25 opponents. You can spend the entire time on one opponent if you're not very good at killing. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1394 1394] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/13/2021 |
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| subject = Teaser: New Arena Mechanic |
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}} |
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You appraise the situation and notice the kobold servant may press you into a spike, you could try to lean out of the way! |
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You set yourself up to lean out of the kobold servant's way! |
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A horned kobold servant raises his fists to the sky. |
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A horned kobold servant rubs his hands together!<br> |
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A horned kobold servant suddenly looks more powerful. |
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A horned kobold servant spins around repeatedly and then whines, "Oh nooooes! Where'd that rolton go?!" |
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A horned kobold servant attempts to press you into a spike, but you lean out of the way!<br> |
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... 20 points of damage!<br> |
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Attack punctures the eye and connects with something re.ally vital!<br> |
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The kobold servant crumples to the floor motionless.<br> |
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The deep blue glow leaves a horned kobold servant.<br> |
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The light blue glow leaves a horned kobold servant.<br> |
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The powerful look leaves a horned kobold servant.<br> |
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G><br> |
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An announcer boasts, "Combatant Wyrom vanquished the kobold servant!" A gornar-shackled ogre lumbers in and drags the servant out of the arena, ridding him of any lodged projectiles or equipment!<br> |
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G><br> |
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An announcer shouts, "Send in another one!" An iron portcullis is raised and a craggy fog beetle enters the arena! |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1400 1400] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/21/2015 |
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| subject = Platinum Beta Testing |
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}} |
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506 and 1035 are still intact. But the stress test needed to know if they are okay won't be present in Platinum. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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''>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean'' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1402 1402] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/21/2015 |
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| subject = Platinum Beta Testing |
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}} |
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''>>Oh, good to know, Wyrom. You threw a pretty fat nerf at bolting wizards when you removed rapid fire. Aside from the immolate (which requires heavy fire lore to be effective!), wizards don't have spells that bypass huge health pools if they can't crit kill with a standard AS bolt attack. Some of those champions in the previous arena required hundreds of mana. It simply wouldn't be feasible without a better way to conserve mana on the easier opponents. Rapid shock filled the gap nicely. Now? Well, hopefully if we can't hit them we can use this new mechanic to gain a crit kill at least.'' |
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No, the champions aren't crittable, but 20 of the 25 creatures are. The issue with Rapid Fire isn't to nerf a profession, it's a performance issue that was arising when people were pounding the arena. Only people who were scoring over 240 bloodscrip were causing the issue. |
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But I'm not a terribly big fan of woe is me arguments when there are tools not being utilized. I'd not consider myself a veteran wizard player, so very limited tactics. No third-party software, no macros, no scripts, I set out as a level 92 wizard only 1x in HP to test how hard it would be as a wizard. I didn't use SIGNS of SYMBOLS. I did prepare and make about 10 imbeds and made sure I had an arsenal of wands fully recharged. I rarely had an issue with mana concerns. First few times I was missing the speed bonus being maximized, but after about 3 more times I was able to get into swing of things and hit the cap on the speed timer (yes there is a cap this time so it's not AS pressing to finish each creature in 3 seconds). |
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Given that, if I were to add 515 back in, it would come with a disclaimer that by using that spell, any disconnects or freezing issues that you experience in-game would result in no refunds of any bloodscrip or dueling slips. My only concern are other players who get booted due to it. From my understanding though it's not actually a game performance issue coming from our end. It's something to do with Lich in the room checking conditions. But I don't know what. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1415 1415] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/21/2015 |
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| subject = Platinum Beta Testing |
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}} |
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In my testing, I mostly used spells at everything but champions. Once a champion came out, I tossed down a few disablers and switched to wands only. A champion typically wiped out an entire gold or metal wand (I used stock stuff at full charges). I could leech early arena foes, so I was pretty much at max mana until around round 15. Toward the end I was nearly tapped entirely on mana, but that's without using signs or symbols. If I was using sign of wracking, I'd be set for sure. |
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Switching gears to a 15mil post cap rogue (a copy of my character), if I removed my stamina regen enhancives, I actually struggled. I disable a ton in the arena, so I couldn't keep my stamina up and popped my muscles at least 3 times (I carry some imbeds to fix that). I have a hard time hitting the 243 number from the previous run of the arena. I didn't test this time as a rogue. I think just capped archers probably have the hardest time in the arena. |
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Anywho, the arena isn't suppose to be a walk in the park. Even with all the alpha testing and beta testing, it never prepared me for how hardcore people in Prime would be. And like I said, this (hopefully) last update to the arena mechanics will be good. It's not easier than last time, but you can slow down a little and enjoy yourself. I don't think many people in Platinum have really figured out how to hit the 250 cap in bloodscrip. There is a whole new thing involved to get the final 40 points. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1422 1422] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/21/2015 |
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| subject = Platinum Beta Testing |
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}} |
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''>>I have to say this is a false argument or I question whether you really tested those champions. Wracking wasn't really a possibility at all, even with max stats, skills, enhancives, and max offensive spells (over 600 sustainable AS) because of the champion's high AS and the fact that if you wracked, bolt AS plummets. More than a handful of those champions weren't able to be immolated at all, so a bad luck of the draw on the champion and you could be stuck twiddling your thumbs trying to stay turtled for several minutes until your spirit regenerated.'' |
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You can certainly question my testing. I've documented over 500 hours of coding and testing into Duskruin. Question all you'd like. The champions from Duskruin are akin to the end boss at the Necropolis. In fact, the code is about 90% the same. I ran into trouble a few times, I died a whole lot during my testing as several professions. But to say it's not possible and still shoot down the feasibility to use wands is kind of odd to me. I was able to save myself hundreds of mana using wands. |
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''>>I would ask you to test a capped wizard and see how things generate. Even with all of the aforementioned spells and skills, at 3x HP, 2x mana control, and carrying an unlimited supply of charged blue crystals, rapid fire was necessary to grind through 25 champions with my items and mana, and I won't even mention how many enhancives I've had for years burned out.'' |
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You only have 5 champions, the other 20 can be crit killed. This has been the case ever since there were 25. In the original set up, all 5 were crit-proof. |
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''>>I don't consider a fully charged wand per every champion to be sustainable. There are bandaids and then there are crutches and this is even beyond that. That's like suggesting I should have carried a stock of 6000+ charged wands just to get through the normal grind of the arena.'' |
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Why? I used about 5 a whole match. It's an extension of my mana pool. The bigger issue was you couldn't sacrifice seconds to score high. That's been altered so the time bonus isn't so crucial. |
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''>>Given that I experienced MAYBE 3-4 disconnects over 1200+ runs, to say that people are taking advantage of the lag and getting reissued slips sounds beyond ridiculous. I'd honestly rather have lag than deal with no rapid fire. No, I don't use Lich, and no, I don't just sit on the enter key to spam rapid fire or script it so it does any more damage to other people's lag time than normal hunting does with a few casts per creature.'' |
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No one is taking advantage of the lag. But people who aren't casting the spell were also experiencing issues. And Rapid Fire might not be the only cause. Platinum doesn't generate enough interest to really help me stress test it. I'm the one that needs to make the tough decisions to help fix the issue. We might get to Prime and find out it's also Haste. I hope it's not. |
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''>>Yes, adding a game within the arena game may be fun, but to say we should "slow down a little and enjoy ourselves" is also a bit hypocritical given the sheer amount of grinding that any decent item takes to acquire. Most people don't have MORE time to put into the arena, however fun it may be. Maybe you're saying everyone should buy even less stuff, but then just say that instead of saying we should be happy to just take longer to get it, because that's not achievable for many.'' |
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The event was never intended to be a grind-fest. In fact, the higher end items were added after player interest. Most things can be purchased after a few simple matches. Obviously "decent" items are going to vary, but buying a single item compared to a dozen is a lot different, as well as a player decision. We're glad that many of you enjoy this set up. But it's definitely not hypocritical of me to say my main interest is that you're entertained. That comes first in my book. The event started as a social experience, with people being able to watch you in the arena. My goal is to make sure it stays there for a lot of you. Some of you are going to enjoy the hunt for the best items. We're offering that too. |
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''>>I just don't understand the idea that the goal here is getting through the grind. I get it from the player's perspective, because that's the task that was presented, but is grinding supposed to be fun now? Can't we go back to pay quests that are more entertainment and less grind? I guess we're suckers for it since we all apparently are willing to pay for it, but I'd much prefer something more entertaining in an arena environment and less grindy.'' |
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Pretty sure I've answered this already, but it's not intended to be a grind. It's a cheaper social event that allows you to buy in to the level you care for. We've had a lot of events over the years. And we'll continue to make things that please different people. Not every event is for every player. |
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''>>So are they beta testing the new limited release items? Any hints on what we can expect that is new(or changed) in the shops?'' |
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No, they aren't beta testing shops. They didn't get the shop updates. Those come Friday for all instances. |
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''>>Or any talk about the new limited high end item(s)?'' |
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I'll be posting about that tomorrow and how it will all work. |
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''>>I don't know what to say. You seem to have ignored a key part of my question toward you. The fact that you seem to have relied entirely upon bolt spells to do your killing in the arena indicates to me that you never encountered any champions that were unhittable by bolts. How is it possible that you did not encounter this but I did when I have just about the highest bolt AS a wizard can possibly have?'' |
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I never tested this as a wizard (much) prior to the updates. But the updates have made champions a little more manageable. Also, there is a new feature that does help offset some issues (but they can be time consuming). I've mentioned this a few times. All the creatures are a little more manageable in the arena. No, I haven't given you all the details, but some of it will be seen in just a few days. I don't think the majority of Platinum players have discovered all of the tricks though. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM'''<noinclude> |
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{{#section:Duskruin/saved posts July 2015|savedpost2}} |
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</noinclude>{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1579 1579] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/25/2015 |
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| subject = Updates |
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}} |
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First of all, big thank you to everyone who helped test some things tonight. It was extremely helpful. |
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So here are some updates.<br> |
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+Due to solving some arena lag issues, you were regaining 1 second per "round" in the arena, which made the arena about 100 seconds quicker (the ACTUAL time it should have been). So the intro messaging has been updated to state you have about 8 minutes, not 10. The exact is about 8 minutes and 15 seconds +/- 15 seconds.<br> |
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+Grasp from the Grave has been disabled from the arena. Anything that is a creature by nature cannot be in the arena.<br> |
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+Rapid Fire has returned, but for wizards only. |
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To help clear up some misconceptions, the dodging traps bonus (which is needed to score 250) doesn't require you to wait for it to happen. You just need to do it. |
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Good luck in the arena! |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM''' |
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{{saved-post |
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| category = Paid Events: Adventures, Quests, and SimuCoins |
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| topic = Duskruin Arena |
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| messagenum = [http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Paid%20Events:%20Adventures,%20Quests,%20and%20SimuCoins/Duskruin%20Arena/view/1653 1653] |
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| author = GS4-WYROM |
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| date = 7/28/2015 |
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| subject = Please do not allow 720 in the arena |
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}} |
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Okay, open voids, webs, darkness, and light will all properly be cleaned out when entering an arena. Please post any ill behaviors, since this was a quick fix while I was doing a few other things. |
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---- |
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~'''Wyrom, APM'''<section end=savedpost2015-07 /> |
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[[Category: Duskruin saved posts]] |
[[Category: Duskruin saved posts]] |
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Revision as of 21:38, 20 January 2022
March 2015
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 11
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 2/27/2015
Subject: Options to buy more
The arena is PvE. So you fight through a progression of creatures and deal with random hazards!
I had hoped to get info tonight, but I'll try for tomorrow.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 20
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 2/28/2015
Subject: Duskruin Arena - A Primer
Creatures scale to level, yes. Creatures are "tough" though, and have hit points depending on scale grouping.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 125
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/7/2015
Subject: Duskruin Arena Testing
>>Btw, Wyrom, will there be the possibility of teams fighting team foes or is this purely solo???
Just solo. Maybe down the road. But not for the initial release.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 141
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/8/2015
Subject: spell restrictions?
>>The creatures in the arena are typically much higher level than you (10+) so that limits the effectiveness of some spells.
Capped people will see the highest leveled creatures. It scales downward for lowbies (but everything is technically either like level or a bit higher).
>>Do demons and animates follow in?
No. No companions of any sort can go inside.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 212
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/20/2015
Subject: Quick suggestion.
>>Thus far I LOVE the arena but would it be possibly to add a visible timer in when we're fighting? I'd like to get a general sense of how long I've been in there if I need to eat herbs and stuff.
There is a 30 second warning that is now in bold. I'm a little leery on adding anything more due to how the arena works.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 274
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/21/2015
Subject: Question - crits in the arena
The crits/bleeding out feature is intended. That's why it says they may feign death. You can still crit them, but it takes a massive amount of damage. It's one of the few ways I could ensure the battles be challenging.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 297
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/22/2015
Subject: Arrows
>>Anyway, just bringing it to your attention. I've just now finally gotten to tinker around in here, so I don't have much else to add at this point. Overall, this is very fun and exciting. I'm enjoying it all, thank you.
Sadly it's intentional for the creature to be pulled away.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 349
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/24/2015
Subject: Duskruin Feedback
Since the area is shut down for the night, I wanted to take a moment to address some feedback I've been hearing in various areas.
>>Re: Difficulty
I understand that difficulty isn't the same between all professions and levels. It's one of the hardest parts of balancing something like this and the Necropolis from EG. This was one of my biggest motivators to make bloodscrip a physical item so you weren't locked into using a single type of character.
The reason you can lop off the creatures head over and over is just a lack of control over the damage system and how I've turned off crits. Yes, I know you can still crit things, there are certain quirks to the system. But this is an attempt to level the playing field.
>>Re: Progression of creatures
I struggled with how to handle the matches for this event. It's probably the biggest reason for the delay in release. The original code was a one-on-one match against a VERY hard champion. You had up to 5 minutes to defeat it. You earned "crowd favor" points for doing feats in the arena. Don't think to yourself, "Oh that sounds so cool!" It was a guess the verb game through a rotating stock of verbs every 3 seconds, and spamming every single one of them caused you to lose points. There were subtle cues on which to use, via SENSE. It's something I hope to get back in after I can work out the horrible kinks. This would allow there to be SOMETHING else to do while you are in the arena. But doing this will also mean the time bonus will be changed dramatically and the bloodscrip earned will need to be re-calculated. I'm pretty proud of that formula I made. I read someone mentioned it "isn't good business" but actually it's the delicate weight of time and money. You can earn more by spending more time in the arena. Since both are a commodity, those that have more time than money can still maximize their profits.
>>Re: Different matches
If you look at the artwork, you'll see it's called Duskruin Arena: Bloodgames. That's because I do hope to revisit other types of matches. We came up with 3 forms of the event. One match scenario where you fight many creatures was definitely something I'd hope to do, and challenge players against each other for high scores. Not PvP, just a scoreboard. I talked about that in Platinum a little. I wanted it functional for this portion of the event, but no dice there.
Having multiple creatures and multiple characters in the arena at a time is just something I don't think I can work in without completely redoing all the mechanics. And I don't see that happening this time. Sorry on that!
But I missed 3 deadlines for Duskruin, and continually second guessing the mechanics were something I had to stop. And I always knew we'd have another form of the event, so I saved the idea for that.
'>>Closing notes
So I kind of explained a lot of the inside details on everything. If and when we change the arena mechanics, it would be on a reboot, not in the middle of the run. The competition form of the event (scoreboard) won't really be much different than what you're seeing now, just another set of arenas you can enter for a different challenge. We'd likely keep both forms (the one you're seeing now and a new secondary challenge) out for you to enjoy, you just pick which you'd like.
I don't foresee the second form of this event happening anytime soon. But giving mini challenges during the arena matches is something I hope to address in April.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 352
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/24/2015
Subject: Duskruin Feedback
>>Not sure what I would change, but in my opinion the traps need to be toned way down.
Yeah, and the mini challenges will be a way to do that. But as it stands now, it's intended to go off the wall crazy toward the end because it's the risk of trying to maximize bloodscrip. I hope Roblar doesn't mind me talking about it, but his top score in Prime of 224 was an insane battle. He waited to the 30 second limit and got disabled pretty badly. I was thinking he was done for due to being RT locked. And literally, with less than 3 seconds before he lost, he berserks and wins. To score a perfect 225, you'd have to do that EVERY time at the end of each round, which I don't think is very feasible. And for that reason I think 224 will likely go untouched with the current setup.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 447
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Duskruin Feedback
I just rolled an update into the live instances that will help speed up the intro. If you've got the Duskruin Arena Hero, Heroine, or Champion title displaying, it will skip the introduction and jump right into combat within about 3 - 6 seconds! No more waiting out the whole minute intro after winning a match.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 479
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 3/31/2015
Subject: Critical Feedback Needed
After watching over hundred matches the last couple of days, and hearing a lot of the concerns for the arena comparing to the sewers... I'm thinking of moving away entirely from the current setup for the arena matches. While the math works, it's still too slow, and the herb munching was never an intended feat.
My goal is to change the arena to be a kill count match. You keep going until the time limit is up, you die, or you surrender. The time would be drastically reduced to 5 minute matches. I'll also look into ways to offer mini challenges during the matches to aid people who want to avoid hazards.
What I want to know from all of you is, would you welcome this change?
~Wyrom, APM
May 2015
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 614
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 4/27/2015
Subject: Arena and Ratacombs Updates
I'm excited to say I've spent the remaining amount of my sanity on some Duskruin Arena updates! HOORAY!
Just kidding, I never had sanity.
The arena matches are much more action packed now. No more herb munching and waiting an obnoxiously long time to maximize your bloodscrip. Matches will be roughly 6 to 7 minutes long where you face 25 creatures one-on-one. Every 5 matches you'll face a champion similar to the champions in the previous version of the arena. There are over 20 new creatures in the arena to face. Most creatures can perish to a critical blow, outside the champions. You earn bloodscrip for each creature you kill. You also earn a bonus if you defeat all 25 creatures in the time limit. Dying no longer incurs a bloodscrip penalty, but surrendering still does.
I've also introduced new hazards. I removed the darts, arrows, spiked ball-and-chain, and boulders. Hazards can now be avoided in a small mini-game during arena matches. I will leave it to you to figure it out. It's not terribly hard, and the term "mini-game" probably is an exaggeration of what it is. But it adds flavor. Hazards are a little more deadly though.
You can now earn a time bonus too that works in a more favorable way. The quicker you make it through, the higher the bonus. You can earn a max of 225 bloodscrip plus the time bonus.
The Ratacombs have also had a minor update. It seems more wildlife has escaped into the sewers, as well as some other sort of rats. So you may find something different this time around. There are also some minor obstacles in the sewers when you SEARCH to add some flavor.
We'll be relaunching this Friday and staying open for a week.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: [1]
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 4/28/2015
Subject: Arena and Ratacombs Updates
>>Do the traps still get progressively more challenging later in the match? Or are they the same level of mini-game 'skill' throughout?
You get a 30 second leeway where they are VERY slow. After that, it's random throughout to when they can fire. You can prevent them 2 different ways. Through the mini-game or by simply disabling the creature. I don't want to give too much about the mini-game away just yet.
>>Any teasers on the new limited item, or any new items?
Yes new items. I'll tease after we set the shops back up.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 638
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 4/30/2015
Subject: Deeds
One thing I changed this time is the need for deeds. You lost deeds in the arena, but you incurred no penalty if you had none. If you have no deeds, your death will be treated like a normal death, and you'll drop all your spells. Stock up, or Lorminstra awaits!
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 647
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/1/2015
Subject: Projectiles (Ammo and Thrown Weapons)
I updated the arena mechanics to discard lodged arrows and thrown weapons before the creatures are pulled from the arena. They will be dropped to the ground where you stand. Make sure to grab them before you're moved or you die!
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 684
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/1/2015
Subject: Traps
>>If there's a mini-game or some methodology to avoiding the traps, there needs to be a hint or some sort of indicator that I can avoid it. I've tried Duskruin twice tonight and each time I'm mowing through opponents only to be randomly insta-gibbed by being pushed onto a pike. No messaging indicating I'm near a pike or being pushed toward a pike or pike-adjacent. Just "Wham, you're dead, go home."
It says it in the intro. But you have to think about it. If you need to see the intro again, TITLE CLEAR [title] so you can see it. Or set your prename titles.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 736
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/3/2015
Subject: More Updates
Okay, based on feedback I made some updates. Also, due to the quantity vs quality argument, I've made changes to loot in the Ratacombs.
Arena
- Creatures that are bound should stop causing the hazards.
- RT locked creatures will still be able to fire off the hazards.
- Extra death messaging with no deeds is resolved (you weren't dying more, it was just being silly).
- Matches are roughly 8 minutes, not 6. This hasn't changed, but the intro messaging reflects this.
- If a GameHost or GameMaster enters your arena, it will pause the match briefly (not the creature), but they need to leave, and you need to ASSIST or REPORT when you're done.
Ratacombs
- >The sewage sweeper doesn't strike much at all anymore. It should be a rare occurrence. And it doesn't ever take you to the starting spot. This NEVER uses up a search attempt. Just because I said rare doesn't mean it can't strike twice in a trip. It can happen, but not that often. This is a 1% chance now.
- I've decreased the number of loot you can find in a single trip into the Ratacombs and stabilized the loot to not be so random. Loot drops at a rate of 10% of all searches. As an FYI, this is now better than anything you experienced on opening night last time. Loot is still random though, like a slot machine (this is the nature of GS). There will still be times you don't win great things, but you have better chances at a jackpot find now.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 781
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/4/2015
Subject: More Updates
Added some safeguards for characters level 10 and below so creatures don't have an overwhelming number of health. Some creatures do have higher attack strengths though.
Fixed a typo in the intro.
Gave the ability for creatures to spawn with more mana.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 818
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/5/2015
Subject: Hazards in the Arena
I've added one more sanity check where creatures won't fire off a hazard as soon as they enter the arena.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 913
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/9/2015
Subject: Max Bloodscrip Achievable in the Arena
It appears that right now, the max you can gain is 243. You could, technically, get to 245 with some extreme luck. When testing this, we can get to 250 when we are in GM mode, which is the figurative cap. However, getting 225+ bloodscrip regularly is not intended.
On the next reboot, the bloodscrips you can earn will be a little more tightly defined into a normal distribution, where earning closer to the max should be a σ of 3.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1002
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/11/2015
Subject: What is going on here?
Traps intentionally take you out of hiding. That's working as intended. The hazards have been toned down way lower than I would have liked. So while I can understand the frustration if you can't figure out the mini-game puzzle, it's really easy to avoid now.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1182
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 5/20/2015
Subject: Don't bother with Arena for a low level caster (10 or so) - Scaling it terrible
Lots of assumptions and anecdotal information being thrown around here. So guess it's time to squash that. Characters under level 25 actually had a lot easier of a time in the arena. Champions spawned by characters 25 and under had 1/3rd the amount of blood as a capped character. Characters level 10 or under always got an extra bonus of making every creature that spawned in the arena with 100 less blood (that's on top of that 1/3rd for champions).
Creature level is always determined by progression in the arena, but the first 5 rounds creatures are between -3 to 1 level higher than the player. It slowly scales up until the last 5 rounds, where it's between 5 and 10 levels.
Earning 200 bloodscrip means a player managed to kill all 25 creatures. Anyone scoring 192, managed to kill 24. Each creature was worth 8 bloodscrip. This is changing in the next variation of the arena to add more emphasis on a few different factors of the challenge. The time bonus is going to be greatly reduced, but you'll have chances to earn other bonuses. The cap will still remain 250, but this time it will be achievable. The reason the arena's figurative 250 isn't able to happen is because you're losing on average 35 seconds for creature clean ups and the new creature entering.
I think those that felt underwhelmed because they couldn't complete the arena or struggled with defeating all 25 will feel a little more confident in the next edition.
~Wyrom, APM
July 2015
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1374
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Duskruin Updates Discussion
I'd like to discuss the plans for Duskruin on the next run. Outside anything new added to the grounds, this is the last overhaul planned for the bloodscrip earnings structure.
Arena Updates
There will be a 250 cap on earnings. That cap will be achievable. Earning bloodscrip won't be about massacring everything as quick as possible. Time will still be an important element to being a top earner, but there will be more things at play when earning bloodscrip. Dodging the traps will play a minor role. Dying and surrendering will no longer have any penalties to your bloodscrip earnings, but will still result in no chance of a randomly created item in your prize package. Prize packages are also getting a small revamp to offer a little more variety. Losing will now earn a good showmanship bonus to bloodscrip, meaning people who can't always win will still have a chance to earn more depending on how long they last on their final opponent. For example, if you can't defeat the your 12th opponent and you had 3 minutes to defeat them, you'll earn for making it to the 12 opponent, for dodging any traps, and a bonus for lasting 3 minutes (dying/surrendering won't get you that bonus). The spells haste and rapid fire will be dispelled during the combat sequence of the arena matches. While they both offer an advantage, the reason is due to the crashes many of you experienced in the arena.
Ratacombs Updates
Bloodscrips earned while searching the Ratacombs will have a higher range of their value. It will still not compare to the arena, but it will be closer to the hopeful median. The random directions in the Ratacombs will be lessened with some more static areas to walk through.
Shop Updates
I will be going through the shops to try to make some items more appealing for purchase. The limited release items will be discussed as we get closer to the first run under these ravamped conditions.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1379
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/11/2021
Subject: Duskruin Updates Discussion
>>Re: Dispelling
Both spells will be dispelled at the beginning of every 3 second interval that the arena mechanics use. I plan on testing it some, but I might be able to leave 506 alone. The problem really boiled down to 515.
>>I am looking forward to relearning a new arena, but you mentioned 12 opponents and at least 3 minute timer for one opponent with speed bonuses sounding reversed like the first release.
The timer is a total timer, and that was the case last time. So you have 6+ minutes to defeat all 25 opponents. You can spend the entire time on one opponent if you're not very good at killing.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1394
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/13/2021
Subject: Teaser: New Arena Mechanic
You appraise the situation and notice the kobold servant may press you into a spike, you could try to lean out of the way!
You set yourself up to lean out of the kobold servant's way!
A horned kobold servant raises his fists to the sky.
A horned kobold servant rubs his hands together!
A horned kobold servant suddenly looks more powerful.
A horned kobold servant spins around repeatedly and then whines, "Oh nooooes! Where'd that rolton go?!"
A horned kobold servant attempts to press you into a spike, but you lean out of the way!
... 20 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something re.ally vital!
The kobold servant crumples to the floor motionless.
The deep blue glow leaves a horned kobold servant.
The light blue glow leaves a horned kobold servant.
The powerful look leaves a horned kobold servant.
G>
An announcer boasts, "Combatant Wyrom vanquished the kobold servant!" A gornar-shackled ogre lumbers in and drags the servant out of the arena, ridding him of any lodged projectiles or equipment!
G>
An announcer shouts, "Send in another one!" An iron portcullis is raised and a craggy fog beetle enters the arena!
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1400
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/21/2015
Subject: Platinum Beta Testing
506 and 1035 are still intact. But the stress test needed to know if they are okay won't be present in Platinum.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1402
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/21/2015
Subject: Platinum Beta Testing
>>Oh, good to know, Wyrom. You threw a pretty fat nerf at bolting wizards when you removed rapid fire. Aside from the immolate (which requires heavy fire lore to be effective!), wizards don't have spells that bypass huge health pools if they can't crit kill with a standard AS bolt attack. Some of those champions in the previous arena required hundreds of mana. It simply wouldn't be feasible without a better way to conserve mana on the easier opponents. Rapid shock filled the gap nicely. Now? Well, hopefully if we can't hit them we can use this new mechanic to gain a crit kill at least.
No, the champions aren't crittable, but 20 of the 25 creatures are. The issue with Rapid Fire isn't to nerf a profession, it's a performance issue that was arising when people were pounding the arena. Only people who were scoring over 240 bloodscrip were causing the issue.
But I'm not a terribly big fan of woe is me arguments when there are tools not being utilized. I'd not consider myself a veteran wizard player, so very limited tactics. No third-party software, no macros, no scripts, I set out as a level 92 wizard only 1x in HP to test how hard it would be as a wizard. I didn't use SIGNS of SYMBOLS. I did prepare and make about 10 imbeds and made sure I had an arsenal of wands fully recharged. I rarely had an issue with mana concerns. First few times I was missing the speed bonus being maximized, but after about 3 more times I was able to get into swing of things and hit the cap on the speed timer (yes there is a cap this time so it's not AS pressing to finish each creature in 3 seconds).
Given that, if I were to add 515 back in, it would come with a disclaimer that by using that spell, any disconnects or freezing issues that you experience in-game would result in no refunds of any bloodscrip or dueling slips. My only concern are other players who get booted due to it. From my understanding though it's not actually a game performance issue coming from our end. It's something to do with Lich in the room checking conditions. But I don't know what.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1415
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/21/2015
Subject: Platinum Beta Testing
In my testing, I mostly used spells at everything but champions. Once a champion came out, I tossed down a few disablers and switched to wands only. A champion typically wiped out an entire gold or metal wand (I used stock stuff at full charges). I could leech early arena foes, so I was pretty much at max mana until around round 15. Toward the end I was nearly tapped entirely on mana, but that's without using signs or symbols. If I was using sign of wracking, I'd be set for sure.
Switching gears to a 15mil post cap rogue (a copy of my character), if I removed my stamina regen enhancives, I actually struggled. I disable a ton in the arena, so I couldn't keep my stamina up and popped my muscles at least 3 times (I carry some imbeds to fix that). I have a hard time hitting the 243 number from the previous run of the arena. I didn't test this time as a rogue. I think just capped archers probably have the hardest time in the arena.
Anywho, the arena isn't suppose to be a walk in the park. Even with all the alpha testing and beta testing, it never prepared me for how hardcore people in Prime would be. And like I said, this (hopefully) last update to the arena mechanics will be good. It's not easier than last time, but you can slow down a little and enjoy yourself. I don't think many people in Platinum have really figured out how to hit the 250 cap in bloodscrip. There is a whole new thing involved to get the final 40 points.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1422
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/21/2015
Subject: Platinum Beta Testing
>>I have to say this is a false argument or I question whether you really tested those champions. Wracking wasn't really a possibility at all, even with max stats, skills, enhancives, and max offensive spells (over 600 sustainable AS) because of the champion's high AS and the fact that if you wracked, bolt AS plummets. More than a handful of those champions weren't able to be immolated at all, so a bad luck of the draw on the champion and you could be stuck twiddling your thumbs trying to stay turtled for several minutes until your spirit regenerated.
You can certainly question my testing. I've documented over 500 hours of coding and testing into Duskruin. Question all you'd like. The champions from Duskruin are akin to the end boss at the Necropolis. In fact, the code is about 90% the same. I ran into trouble a few times, I died a whole lot during my testing as several professions. But to say it's not possible and still shoot down the feasibility to use wands is kind of odd to me. I was able to save myself hundreds of mana using wands.
>>I would ask you to test a capped wizard and see how things generate. Even with all of the aforementioned spells and skills, at 3x HP, 2x mana control, and carrying an unlimited supply of charged blue crystals, rapid fire was necessary to grind through 25 champions with my items and mana, and I won't even mention how many enhancives I've had for years burned out.
You only have 5 champions, the other 20 can be crit killed. This has been the case ever since there were 25. In the original set up, all 5 were crit-proof.
>>I don't consider a fully charged wand per every champion to be sustainable. There are bandaids and then there are crutches and this is even beyond that. That's like suggesting I should have carried a stock of 6000+ charged wands just to get through the normal grind of the arena.
Why? I used about 5 a whole match. It's an extension of my mana pool. The bigger issue was you couldn't sacrifice seconds to score high. That's been altered so the time bonus isn't so crucial.
>>Given that I experienced MAYBE 3-4 disconnects over 1200+ runs, to say that people are taking advantage of the lag and getting reissued slips sounds beyond ridiculous. I'd honestly rather have lag than deal with no rapid fire. No, I don't use Lich, and no, I don't just sit on the enter key to spam rapid fire or script it so it does any more damage to other people's lag time than normal hunting does with a few casts per creature.
No one is taking advantage of the lag. But people who aren't casting the spell were also experiencing issues. And Rapid Fire might not be the only cause. Platinum doesn't generate enough interest to really help me stress test it. I'm the one that needs to make the tough decisions to help fix the issue. We might get to Prime and find out it's also Haste. I hope it's not.
>>Yes, adding a game within the arena game may be fun, but to say we should "slow down a little and enjoy ourselves" is also a bit hypocritical given the sheer amount of grinding that any decent item takes to acquire. Most people don't have MORE time to put into the arena, however fun it may be. Maybe you're saying everyone should buy even less stuff, but then just say that instead of saying we should be happy to just take longer to get it, because that's not achievable for many.
The event was never intended to be a grind-fest. In fact, the higher end items were added after player interest. Most things can be purchased after a few simple matches. Obviously "decent" items are going to vary, but buying a single item compared to a dozen is a lot different, as well as a player decision. We're glad that many of you enjoy this set up. But it's definitely not hypocritical of me to say my main interest is that you're entertained. That comes first in my book. The event started as a social experience, with people being able to watch you in the arena. My goal is to make sure it stays there for a lot of you. Some of you are going to enjoy the hunt for the best items. We're offering that too.
>>I just don't understand the idea that the goal here is getting through the grind. I get it from the player's perspective, because that's the task that was presented, but is grinding supposed to be fun now? Can't we go back to pay quests that are more entertainment and less grind? I guess we're suckers for it since we all apparently are willing to pay for it, but I'd much prefer something more entertaining in an arena environment and less grindy.
Pretty sure I've answered this already, but it's not intended to be a grind. It's a cheaper social event that allows you to buy in to the level you care for. We've had a lot of events over the years. And we'll continue to make things that please different people. Not every event is for every player.
>>So are they beta testing the new limited release items? Any hints on what we can expect that is new(or changed) in the shops?
No, they aren't beta testing shops. They didn't get the shop updates. Those come Friday for all instances.
>>Or any talk about the new limited high end item(s)?
I'll be posting about that tomorrow and how it will all work.
>>I don't know what to say. You seem to have ignored a key part of my question toward you. The fact that you seem to have relied entirely upon bolt spells to do your killing in the arena indicates to me that you never encountered any champions that were unhittable by bolts. How is it possible that you did not encounter this but I did when I have just about the highest bolt AS a wizard can possibly have?
I never tested this as a wizard (much) prior to the updates. But the updates have made champions a little more manageable. Also, there is a new feature that does help offset some issues (but they can be time consuming). I've mentioned this a few times. All the creatures are a little more manageable in the arena. No, I haven't given you all the details, but some of it will be seen in just a few days. I don't think the majority of Platinum players have discovered all of the tricks though.
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1440
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/22/2015
Subject: Platinum Beta Testing
I don't know why I haven't earned some of your trust (general you). We might not agree on some topics, but I think I've been a very fair with my rulings and forthcoming with information, not just with this event, but with the game as a whole. My goal here is to make the game a better place, and that usually starts with making sure it's fun. Speaking strictly about Duskruin, I wanted to address concerns with people who struggled. Unfortunately, I had to address the lag issue as well which was a blow to wizards. I actually have an idea I'm going to try to rush in to automate the disconnection issues so you don't need to chase down a GM for a replacement item. Hoping to have it ready for Friday (but it might not happen). That said, if we discover the lag/disconnect persists with the Rapid Fire being barred, I'll add it back.
Since this is going to be a hot topic, I guess I'll just lay everything out so you can make the decision if Duskruin is right for you.
Arena
+The arena is slower by about a second per "round" that is being cycled throughout your placement. This means you have about ten minutes to get through the arena instead of eight minutes.
++This does mean that creature clean up will be a second slower as well.
+There are a couple new creatures in the arena. Hobgoblins have moved to becoming champions where kiramon moved to being regular foes.
+Creatures have less bolt and ranged DS equivalent to a negative modifier of your level / 2. This means at cap, you'll see a reduction of 50 DS.
+Creature health has had a reduction across the board. Characters under level 10 still get the biggest bonus to health reduction.
+Hazards go off about twice as fast now, and there is no immunity for the first 30 seconds. Creatures will not use hazards until they are established as your enemy.
+Dodging a hazard will now injure the creature, giving players who might not be able to overcome an opponent a chance.
+Scoring is based on winning, killing, speed, and dodging hazards. If you don't win, your speed bonus changes to what I've named the showman bonus, which awards you bloodscrip based on how long you lasted. All four categories have a hard cap of how high you can score. I'll leave it up to you to figure out the range you score for each. The only way to score 250 is by winning. The temporary titles and item prize have been adjusted to be distributed at specific bloodscrip won. Exp and silver awards are equivalent (in some manner) to the bloodscrip you've earned. Prior to this, silver was randomized.
Ratacombs
+There are 25 less rooms in the Ratacombs and the maze layout shifts less often.
+Bloodscrip amounts are now displayed when you search, eliminating the need to LOOK to see what you got.
+Survival ranks will help you stay on your feet when entering and exiting the sewers.
+A small handful of new descriptors have been added to the rats (if you want another one, Cruxophim)
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1579
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/25/2015
Subject: Updates
First of all, big thank you to everyone who helped test some things tonight. It was extremely helpful.
So here are some updates.
+Due to solving some arena lag issues, you were regaining 1 second per "round" in the arena, which made the arena about 100 seconds quicker (the ACTUAL time it should have been). So the intro messaging has been updated to state you have about 8 minutes, not 10. The exact is about 8 minutes and 15 seconds +/- 15 seconds.
+Grasp from the Grave has been disabled from the arena. Anything that is a creature by nature cannot be in the arena.
+Rapid Fire has returned, but for wizards only.
To help clear up some misconceptions, the dodging traps bonus (which is needed to score 250) doesn't require you to wait for it to happen. You just need to do it.
Good luck in the arena!
~Wyrom, APM
Topic: Duskruin Arena
Message #: 1653
Author: GS4-WYROM
Date: 7/28/2015
Subject: Please do not allow 720 in the arena
Okay, open voids, webs, darkness, and light will all properly be cleaned out when entering an arena. Please post any ill behaviors, since this was a quick fix while I was doing a few other things.
~Wyrom, APM