Forging/saved posts
Questions and Answers
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: HJ-CIRAKIN
Date: 7/19/2005 11:54:47 AM
Subject: Re: You smile as you realize that this is the very best that you can create.
Mikos was quite explicit in stating that although you needed some kind of magic metal hammer to forge a magic metal weapon, there was no advantage to using one metal over another, and said outright that there was no reason to use anything better than mithril.
This is true. A magic hammer is a magic hammer. A perfect Vultite hammer is certainly impressive though. I settled for a mithril one.
I understand it takes less time to complete forging with a vultite hammer?
The roundtime in forging is solely dependent upon the metal being forged. The hammer has no effect on the forging roundtime.
the only bonus you get is a small one for a high logic
This is related to a chance to learn. Not a chance to get a best piece. Hammer quality (and whether you are attuned to it), Profession, Race, Metal being forged, injuries, encumbrance, and random luck ... all play a role in getting a piece (including best).
I have also converted to a paladin, can we get a listing on the bonuses they recieve or don't in the forge please?
- Forging - small bonus
- Crafting - small handicap
Can someone look into the forge in Teras and the grinder/hammer head glyphs to insure they're working correctly please?
I'll try to get in sometime in the next week and ensure they are all working as intended. Thanks, Cirakin
Encumbrance??????????
My fault. I was wrong .. that is not true.
I remembered injuries playing a part and incorrectly associated encumberance with the forging success. The code does not check for encumbrance anywhere.
Oops? Cirakin
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: WYRMS
Date: 7/19/2005 11:54:47 AM
Subject: Re: You smile as you realize that this is the very best that you can create.
- Human: NA
- Halfling: NA
- Giantman: NA
- Dwarf: Crafting - bonus/Forging - small bonus
- Elf: Crafting - bonus/Forging - small bonus
- Half Elf: NA
- Half Krolvin: not known (no one has said anything)
- Sylvan: Crafting - handicap/Forging - small handicap
- Dark Elf: Crafting - bonus/Forging - small bonus
- Bard: Crafting - significant handicap
- Cleric: Crafting - significant handicap
- Empath: Crafting - significant handicap
- Paladin: Crafting - small handicap/Forging - small bonus
- Ranger: NA
- Rogue: NA
- Sorcerer: Crafting - significant handicap
- Warrior: Crafting - small handicap/Forging - small bonus
- Wizard: Crafting - significant handicap
Bonuses from Forging
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: SPINDEL
Date: 7/22/2005 10:15:43 PM
Subject: Re: Forged Weapon Qualities
Can someone tell me if I'm right, or correct me please?
- Perfect 6% bonus
- Superior 4% bonus
- Hefty 4% bonus
- Nifty 4% bonus
- Well-crafted 4% bonus
- Exquisite 2% bonus
- Well-made 2% bonus
- Elegant 2% bonus
- Fine 2% bonus
- Nice 0 bonus and everything below
- Plain
- Simple
- Crude
- Lop-sided
- Flimsy
Me.
AIM: LRDSPENDEL MAIL: SPENDEL@GMAIL.COM
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: ROCKTOAD
Date: 7/23/2005 7:34:15 AM
Subject: Re: Forged Weapon Qualities
well-made is only an elegant forge (2% bonus)
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: ROCKTOAD
Date: 7/25/2005 10:07:17 AM
Subject: the effect of superior/perfect forged weapons on combat
I've been trying to figure out, what exactly does a superior or perfect weapon do when you hit something with it? from reading up on the boards, i've discoved the general concensus is that superior weapons gain +4% to DF and AvD, and perfect weapons (the uber-rare ones) gain +6% to DF and AvD.
but what exactly does that mean.. in other words, how would it compare to other combat mods like Critical or Damage weighting.
I've been working out some formulas to try and figure out exactly how good the combat mods that superior and perfect weapons receive.
lets take for example, a normal vultite falchion vs. a perfect forged vultite falchion vs. a silver-hilted vultite falchion (the decent crit weighted type)
how would each weapon perform? would the perf. forged falchion be better than the decent crit falchion?
so we head out to krolvin warriors that are wearing some brigandine armor. We know that falchions have a DF(damage factor) of .25
we know the perfect falchion has a DF of .265 .250*1.06=.265
so I figured out with the forged falchion you'd get 1 AS equilavent every 16.6666 points over 100 that you hit, compared to the normal vultite falchion .250/(.265-.250)=16.6666
soooo which weapon would hurt most ? how hard would you have to hit the krol before the enhanced Damage factor overtakes the bonus you get from the crit weighted falchion?
and, if you had to compare superior and perfect forge ratings to Critical Weighting, at which level would they be at? light, fair, somewhat, decent? maybe even Heavy critical weighting??
is any one else confused because when I work out some math even perfect forged weapons are worse than light crit weighted weapons examples: you swing the perfect forge vultite falchion at a krolvin wrarior +d100 === +200 Hit so you get +6 AS compared to the normal vultite falchion and do 26.5 raw dmg (only 26 dmg really because it is trunctated by the IFE) you swing the normal vultite falchion at a krolvin wrarior +d100 === +200 Hit 25 raw dmg you swing the silver-hilt vultite falchion at a krolvin wrarior +d100 === +200 Hit you do 25 raw dmg PLUS 4 points of dmg for critical weighting
is my math wrong here (if you can understand any of it, heh) or do better forge ratings really do absulolutely nothing ?
Compare Weighting to Perfect Weapons
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: HOFMANNM1
Date: 7/26/2005 3:49:39 PM
Subject: Re: the effect of superior/perfect forged weapons on combat
Let us ignore for the moment that forged weapons can have cool things like eblading and enchantment added, because the huge amount of work it takes to make a perfect weapon (at least) balances those out.
- Weighting does not "kick in" until the hit achieves 1 crit rank (this is why claidhmores don't pulp things in 101 endrolls).
- Increasing the crit rank past 9 is pointless, the max for crit randomization is always taken as 9.
- Crit weighting does not add directly to damage done. Crit weighting adds to phantom damage for purposes of crit rank calculation only.
- Crit weighting is not added directly. 4 points of crit weighting is only 2 points of phantom damage. Furthermore, crit weighting does not always add the max, it is randomized between max and 1 (or 0, I forget). However, let us assume for the sake of charity that weighting is always added at the maximum. It will make my conclusion all the more immutable.
We know that the weighted weapon will not always be superior to the nonweighted weapon. The forged weapon will end up doing more raw damage and the same crit damage, meaning more total damage (of course, if this doesn't occur until rank 9s, it would be fair to say that the crit weighted weapon is more desireable). The low hits are theoretically the same, but because we're only talking a 6% increase and DFs are generally small numbers, it's probably not enough to talk about. Let's take our example:
- .250 DF, 4 points of crit weighting (somewhat weighting)
- .265 DF, 0 points of weighting
When we hit, we get an endroll, which we subtract 100 from to find what we multiply our DF by. Let's call that x. On any given x we have:
- Forged weapon:
- raw damage = .265 * x
- max crit rank = raw damage / crit divisor = (.265 * x) / 7
- Weighted weapon:
- raw damage = .250 * x
- max crit rank = (.250 * x + 2) / 7
So, let's find where they're equal. Crit divisors cancel out immediately.
- .265 * x = .250 * x + 2
- .015 * x = 2
x = 400 / 3 = 133.3 repeating. So we know that they have equal crit ranks (assuming equal randomization [which you pretty much have to]) at that point. We also know that the 2 is going to be worth the same while the extra DF will keep adding more, so it stands to reason that the weighted weapon is superior below the break-even point, and the forged weapon is superior above.
So let's look at when x = 133. We know for each weapon that amounts to 35 damage for the purposes of crit calculation, or 5 crit ranks. We also know that 2 of those damage will be phantom for the weighted weapon, so it does 2 less damage when all is said and done. So we know that the final break even point is slightly lower. To know exactly, I'd have to have the crit tables for slash and crush handy (I don't).
The low endroll headstart the forged weapon gets only amounts to anything at 1 or 2 isolated points before the crit weighting starts to kick in, so let's ignore it and say any endroll below 233 inclusive is better for the weighted weapon. I rarely get endrolls lower than that, your mileage may vary.
Which brings us to your math. First, describing the forged bonus in terms of AS is flawed. It only makes sense in terms of raw damage. You do 1 more raw damage for every 1000/15 or 200/3 or 66.6 repeating endroll over 100. (As an aside, I am reasonably certain that (endroll * DF) is rounded, not truncated. If you have proof otherwise, I'll be glad to see it.) I am uncertain where you got 16.6 from. Enhanced DF cannot be compared to Crit Weighting in the sense of "this is always better". Even if you have enough crit weighting to ensure that the weighted weapon will reach rank 9 before the Enhanced DF, the enhanced DF will be better the moment it hits rank 9. Neither a perfectly forged weapon nor a somewhat crit weighted weapon are going to be noticeably better than their unweighted, unforged counterparts. That (in my opinion) is the chief bummer of forging.
-Anathemus' player
Addendum:
The perfectly forged weapon will always see an improvement in DF. For this not to be the case, the weapon would have to have a .008 DF. Superior and elegant are the same, the weapon would need a .012 DF and .024 DF, respectively (I think). It's AvD where things can and do stay the same.
-Anathemus' player
Experience and Artisan Guild Limits
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: GS4-OZIAS
Date: 8/18/2005 5:41:57 PM
Subject: Re: 4 down 1 to go
From my perspective, considering how useless the artisan's guild is, I don't see the caps as really providing any benefit at all to the game.
Well, I guess that's the thing. Either the skills become useful, or they're just fluffy pastimes. With the unique features added to master-crafted weapons, and the special features being added to master-crafted footwear and clothing, we're hoping to make these skills extremely sought-after parts of a player economy.
If we can't achieve that over time, I suppose we'll need to go back and remove the limits. The limits aren't really there to hold you back from the EXP the system will award. It likely won't compete with hunting on a reward/time basis.
~Ozias
Topic: Forging
Message #: (Unknown)
Author: GS4-OZIAS
Date: 8/19/2005 12:14:53 AM
Subject: Re: 4 down 1 to go
When the limit is in place, and you go to "master" more skills, one of your current skills will decline correct?
The mechanism is being hashed out, but basically what we're discussing is the ability to master two and then make some limited advancement in a third, to see if it's your cup of tea. An addition to ARTISAN would then allow you to select one of the other skills you're mastered in (or in your case, one of the other skills you have partial ranks in) for degradation.
~Ozias
Additional Notes
From Play.net's Forging Guide: "A character's level of success at the grinder is dependant on their health, crafting skill, strength, agility and discipline bonuses, the material difficulty, their profession and race, and a random element."
Apparantly the material difficulty no longer plays a part, as well as strength, agility, and discipline. Logic helps when learning how to forge or craft, but upon reaching mastery it no longer plays any part.