Leafiara (prime)/Mechanical Musings/Ascension Considerations
Recording my musings on how to most effectively train ATPs as the thoughts come to me.
Taking Logic First to Make Everything Else Faster
Don't do it.
Assuming you have a multiple of 5 Logic bonus at cap, you'd have to put 750,000 exp into ATPs before you'd see any benefit while on a node. At that point, if exp pulses happened at one per minute (I think it might be less often than this, but for easy math...), you'd need to play for 750,001 minutes before this started making things faster for you.
Even someone who threw their initial 10 milestone ATPs at Logic and then added the other 5 over time would still need to play 250,001 minutes for it to pay off, which is equal to playing 24/7 for about 0.4756 years.
And if you only play 8 hours a week, forget about it; at that point it'll be 520.8354 weeks, or in other words over ten years, before it pays off. (Extrapolate this out however you want. Play 20 hours a week? It'll be 208.3342 weeks to pay off, or over four years.)
Even if that doesn't put you off right away, it's all not factoring in the opportunity cost of not having put those points elsewhere. For the same amount of ATPs you could have an additional 10 AS, 5 CS for most professions, +5% chance for another damage cycle on Spike Thorn, etc.
Quick Wins and Thresholds
Let's say you mostly want to get to Elite and Legendary and are only sinking points into Common because you have to. There are some obvious choices of what to take, like 250k exp into weapons or Spell Aiming for a quick +5 AS, but here are some less obvious things I'd be looking at:
- Quick win: 200k exp into Dexterity and 100k exp into Agility (or vice versa) reduces mstrike RT by 1 for any of the following races if they have 100 non-ascended, non-enhanced Agility and Dexterity: aelotoi, dark elves, forest gnomes, half-elves, sylvans, erithians, and humans.
- Quick win: 250k exp into Aura gives an extra point of spirit to someone with 100 non-ascended, non-enhanced Aura.
- Quick win: 150k exp into Multi-Opponent Combat gives an extra unfocused mstrike target for a ranger archer or crossbow rogue with 101 conventional Multi-Opponent Combat.
- Threshold: 550k exp into Summoning lore allows a cleric or empath to have 100% Spirit Slayer during Duskruin with a fixskill to 202 conventional Summoning. If you're ordinarily at a Summoning threshold like 60 or 30 for locates, it also means you can shave off respectively 8 or 2 conventional ranks to go to another spiritual lore.
- Threshold: In general, review your lores again to see what you're close to but couldn't reach within the 2x or 1x limitation. Note that ascension skills add bonus and not ranks, so if your lore is under 40 conventional ranks, you'd either need additional ascension ranks or would have to balance the numbers out a bit.
- Quick win: 50k or 100k exp into Survival reduces the roll needed to forage an herb for someone with, respectively, 101 or 202 conventional Survival.
- Quick win: Some characters might be within range of another Trading threshold to make more silvers. You get 1% for every 12 combined bonus from Trading and Influence, so at most you'll be 950k exp away (750k into Trading and 200k into Influence), but you could be as low as 50k away.
Efficient Ranks of Dexterity vs. Spell Aiming (or Picking Locks)
Exp Cumulative Skill Ranks Benefit Rate 250k 250k Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 50k per AS 200k 450k Dexterity 4 +2 AS 100k per AS 500k 950k Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 100k per AS 150k 1.1m Dexterity 2 +1 AS 150k per AS 750k 1.85m Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 150k per AS 400k 2.25m Dexterity 4 +2 AS 200k per AS 1m 3.25m Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 200k per AS 1.25m 4.5m Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 250k per AS 600k 5.1m Dexterity 4 +2 AS 300k per AS 1.5m 6.6m Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 300k per AS 350k 6.95m Dexterity 2 +1 AS 350k per AS 1.75m 8.7m Spell Aiming 5 +5 AS 350k per AS 800k 9.5m Dexterity 4 +2 AS 400k per AS
And so on. (The same math also applies to improving Picking Locks or Dexterity.)
When rates are equal, I'd give Dexterity precedence because it also improves SMRv2 defense or mstrike RT. SA does offer runestaff DS or spellburst protection, though.
Efficiently Improving Melee AS: Weapons, Strength, and Combat Maneuvers
Basically the same math as above except now there are two things on the Dexterity scale...
Exp Cumulative Skill Ranks Benefit Rate 250k 250k Weapon 5 +5 AS 50k per AS 200k 450k Strength 4 +2 AS 100k per AS 200k 650k Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 100k per AS 500k 1.15m Weapon 5 +5 AS 100k per AS 150k 1.3m Strength 2 +1 AS 150k per AS 150k 1.45m Combat Maneuvers 2 +1 AS 150k per AS 750k 2.2m Weapon 5 +5 AS 150k per AS 400k 2.6m Strength 4 +2 AS 200k per AS 400k 3m Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 200k per AS 1m 4m Weapon 5 +5 AS 200k per AS 1.25m 5.25m Weapon 5 +5 AS 250k per AS
And so on.
When they're at the same rate, you can flip them around however you like. The AS benefits are equal, but Strength offers encumbrance benefits, CM offers maneuver defense, and weapon bonus (to my understanding) decreases enemy EBP.
Melee AS with a Katar
Exp Cumulative Skill Ranks Benefit Rate 200k 200k Strength 4 +2 AS 100k per AS 200k 400k Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 100k per AS 500k 900k Edged and Brawling 10 (total) +5 AS 100k per AS 150k 1.15m Strength 2 +1 AS 150k per AS 150k 1.3m Combat Maneuvers 2 +1 AS 150k per AS 400k 1.7m Strength 4 +2 AS 200k per AS 400k 2.1m Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 200k per AS 1m 3.1m Edged and Brawling 10 (total) +5 AS 200k per AS 600k 3.7m Strength 4 +2 AS 300k per AS 600k 4.3m Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 300k per AS 1.5m 5.8m Edged and Brawling 10 (total) +5 AS 300k per AS 350k 6.15m Strength 2 +1 AS 350k per AS 350k 6.5m Combat Maneuvers 2 +1 AS 350k per AS 800k 7.3m Strength 4 +2 AS 400k per AS 800k 8.1m Combat Maneuvers 4 +2 AS 400k per AS 2m 10.1m Edged and Brawling 10 (total) +5 AS 400k per AS
Melee AS with Two Weapons
...this one hurts my head and I'm honestly not even going to run the numbers, leaving it to someone who writes a .exe to run these kinds of calculations. That said, some things to note:
- 100% of the AS benefits of Combat Maneuvers in either of the above plans (for non-hybrid or hybrid weapons) apply to the offhand.
- 60% of the AS benefits of weapon ranks in the above plan apply to the offhand. For the other 40%, you'll have to train Two Weapon Combat. The corollary is that you'll have to train 2.5 times as many ranks for the equivalent AS boost--and that applies to the offhand only.
- AS benefits from Strength apply to the offhand only when the character's Strength bonus doesn't wind up exceeding their Dexterity bonus. When it does exceed, you'll have to take more Dexterity to get them to parity.
- For a halfling, who innately has a 30-point advantage of Dexterity over Strength, Strength will always benefit the offhand unless they've used a combination of enhancives and ATPs to bump Strength bonus by at least 31.
- Conversely, for a giant, who has a 20-point of advantage of Strength over Dexterity, Strength will never benefit the offhand unless they've used a combination of ATPs and enhancives to bump Dexterity bonus by at least 21.
CS For Bards, Clerics, Empaths, Paladins, Rangers, or Wizards
Exp Cumulative Skill Ranks Benefit Rate 200k 200k CS stat 4 +2 CS 100k per CS 150k 350k CS stat 2 +1 CS 150k per CS 400k 750k CS stat 4 +2 CS 200k per CS 600k 1.35m CS stat 4 +2 CS 300k per CS 350k 1.7m CS stat 2 +1 CS 350k per CS 800k 2.5m CS stat 4 +2 CS 400k per CS 1m 3.5m CS stat 4 +2 CS 500k per CS 550k 4.05m CS stat 2 +1 CS 550k per CS 1.2m 5.25m CS stat 4 +2 CS 600k per CS
CS For Sorcerers
Your first thought might be "eesh, sucks to be a sorcerer since they have to pay twice as much." That's kind of true and kind of not, depending how you look at it. First, here are the numbers.
Exp Cumulative Skill Ranks Benefit Rate 200k 200k Wisdom 4 +1 CS 200k per CS 200k 400k Aura 4 +1 CS 200k per CS 350k 750k Wisdom 4 +1 CS 350k per CS 350k 1.1m Aura 4 +1 CS 350k per CS 500k 1.6m Wisdom 4 +1 CS 500k per CS 500k 2.1m Aura 4 +1 CS 550k per CS 650k 2.75m Wisdom 4 +1 CS 650k per CS 650k 3.4m Aura 4 +1 CS 650k per CS 800k 4.2m Wisdom 4 +1 CS 800k per CS 800k 5m Aura 4 +1 CS 800k per CS
Comparing some reasonably close thresholds, you can see how it shifts around...
- At 200k exp, a sorc has gained 1 CS while another pure has gained 2.
- At 400k, it's 2 vs. 3.
- At 750k, it's 3 vs. 5.
- At 1.1m, it's 4 vs. 6.
- At 1.7m, it's 5 vs. 8.
- At 2.1m, it's 6 vs. 9.
- At 3.5m, it's 8 vs. 12.
- At 4.2m, it's 9 vs. 13.
So in one sense, if both characters are sinking equal amounts of exp purely into CS gain, then 150-160% as much CS is what the other pure is getting, not 200%.
However, if you're looking at hitting a specific CS increase, that's when it looks comparatively worse for the sorcerer:
- To get +3 CS, a sorcerer has to spend 750k while another pure has to spend 400k.
- To get +5, it's 1.6m vs. 750k.
- To get +6, it's 2.1m vs. 1.05m.
- To get +8, it's 3.4m vs. 1.7m.
- To get +10, it's 5m vs. 2.5m.
Not all thresholds shown, obviously, but you get the picture.