Ashes to Ashes - 2022-03-19 - The Debate (log)

Charlatos 19-20, 5122

by Alosaka of the Silver Gryphons

Summary

Following the successful defense of the town from a marauding Krolvin fleet the night before, several of the town's defenders gather in Town Square Central to discuss recent events. The discussion quickly turns to the suspected target of the Krolvin invasion -- an alchemical formula rumored to be capable of destroying the Krolvin race entirely. After some elucidation of the background by Marshal Stormyrain, a debate ensues, primarily between Alosaka, who argues that the formula should be destroyed, and Xylador Fer'Araun Faendryl, who argued that no matter how terrible the formula might be, it would be foolish to toss away such a potent weapon.

The debate focused on the tension between upholding one's values (Alosaka) and the goal of survival, for oneself or one's family (Xylador).

The crux of the debate can be summarized in this exchange:

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Let me ask a different question. Imagine the most debased, despicable state you can imagine... whatever it might be for you --- weakness, cowardice, slavery, I don't know. Your choice."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka asks, "Would you rather submit to that, or perish?"

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador asks, "Perish, if not for another way. What is your point?"

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "For me, and I suspect for many others, to fall into the sort of evil we are describing -- using this weapon to eradicate an entire people, without regard for their actions -- is that degree of debasement."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Better to die ourselves than submit to it."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "That is understandable... But you do not simply live for yourself here.."

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I live, and make decisions, based on the best for all those who I protect."

Log

Discussing the Invasion

[The perspective here is from Marshal Stormyrain]

Alosaka asks, "Did anything come out of the invasion last night except for a bunch of dead krol?"

Cryheart says, "Not that I know of."

Blades says, "Seems the krol got what they wanted."

Blades shrugs.

Xylador nods once.

Cryheart asks, "Oh?"

Speaking to Xylador, you ask, "Have you not spoken to the Dread Lord?"

You raise an eyebrow, your bloodjewel half-ring only enhancing your skeptical look.

Xylador looks thoughtfully at you.

Blades says, "Quite an abrupt departure. They weren't finished."

Alosaka furrows his brow.

You casually glance at Blades.

Xylador says, "I heard a few murmers, I also know that Sir Cryheart was on the ground here. So the intel may differ."

Alosaka asks, "They were able to destroy the formula?"

Xylador shakes his head, totally at a loss.

Alosaka furrows his brow.

Speaking to Alosaka, Perigourd says, "I do not know that it was found."

Speaking to Alosaka, Perigourd says, "If it was, it's news to me."

Alosaka nods at Perigourd.

Serendepity says, "Where them krolvins now, now I can get them."

Cryheart says, "Long gone for now, we hope."

Speaking slowly to Cryheart, you say, "I do not think that will be the case for long."

Alosaka blinks.

Cryheart nods to you.

Alosaka says, "Well."

Xylador says, "I doubt a force of that strength and size will be turned so easily."

Xylador says, "I believe they momentarily deemed their goal unobtainable in the short term. They likely fell back to regather and re-equip."

You ponder the meaning of Xylador's existence.

Alosaka says, "I still say we should offer to destroy the formula for them."

Speaking to Eledryn, Alosaka asks, "Did you see any of the fireworks last night?"

Speaking to Alosaka, Eledryn confesses, "I was not around for yesterday's fireworks."

Alosaka nods at Eledryn.

Speaking to Eledryn, Alosaka exclaims, "It was exciting!"

Alosaka says, "Ships arriving via portals! Ballista bolts arriving by portals! Demons arriving by portals! A lot of portals, really."

Speaking to Alosaka, Eledryn asks, "When you send the ballista bolt through the portal it just... keeps going?"

Alosaka nods at Eledryn.

Speaking to Eledryn, Alosaka says, "Until it hits someone, usually."

Speaking to Alosaka, Eledryn says, "Hopefully it was hitting Krolvin and not ours."

Alosaka says, "Eh... our gunners didn't quite have the whole portal thing mastered."

You unsuccessfully try to stifle your grin.

Alosaka says, "The Krol were the portal masters."

The Pathogen

Xylador says, "I have a question, borne completely of ignorance.."

Xylador glances between Cryheart and yourself.

You raise an eyebrow, your bloodjewel half-ring only enhancing your skeptical look.

Xylador asks, "Do we know the origin or goal of the Krolvin invaders..?"

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Somewhat, it seems."

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "They are seeking something they call Blue Suffering."

Speaking to you, Xylador asks, "Are we aware at all of what that is?"

Xylador arches a skeptical eyebrow as he takes in his surroundings.

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "Falzcrow gave us the name of the Warlord, but I don't remember if he mentioned where they hail from? I would imagine not Glaoveln since Blue Suffering originated there."

Xylador looks thoughtfully at you.

Speaking to Xylador, you continue, "We know some--we know it is a pathogen created by Praxopius."

Xylador inclines his ear, listening intently.

Alosaka turns an inquisitive ear toward you.

Speaking to you, Xylador asks, "Do we know anything of the effects of the pathogen?"

You say, "And that it was dispatched, the formula at least, to be delivered here..two years past the event where we first encountered it."

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "Oh yes, we've seen it."

You say, "We used it."

Alosaka blinks.

Speaking to you, Alosaka asks, "We... we did?"

You say, "It..for lack of a better word..kills and then disintegrates krolvin."

You fold your hands behind your back, waiting patiently.

Speaking to you, Xylador asks, "Specifically Krolvin?"

Speaking to Alosaka, you say, "Yes we used it at Glaoveln."

Speaking agitatedly to you, Alosaka asks, "When did we use it? Who used it?"

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "Specifically krolvin of a certain bloodline, I believe."

Blades ponders.

Speaking to you, Xylador says, "I would be more concerned then, that it can be manipulated to target other things.."

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "Yes, that is the over arching concern we all share."

Speaking to you, Alosaka says, "I confess I am also concerned with the fact that we used it."

Speaking to you, Xylador asks, "Would it not make sense to destroy it, or at very least tell them that has happened?"

Xylador casually glances at Alosaka.

Speaking to Alosaka, you say, "We used it, all of us, against the krolvin at Glaoveln when we attacked with Praxopius years ago."

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "They may not believe us."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "It is hard to discern the requirements of a battle that we were not a part of. Hind sight and things like that."

You ask, "..krolvin are not known for...their ability to--compromise?"

Gregnal stares at you.

Speaking to you, Xylador says, "Then the outcome would be the same had we not said it... I'm not sure the risk in the gamble."

Missoni says, "I would argue that it cannot be destroyed at this point. Too many know of it. Best to find a cure."

Speaking to you, Eledryn says, "I too would not be much for compromises if something that could destroy my entire race was on the line."

A pained expression crosses Alosaka's face.

Alosaka nods at Eledryn.

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "They are utlizing mentalists to ascertain the location of the formula."

Speaking to Missoni, Xylador says, "There is no guarantee that a cure for this variation would also cure whatever mutation they create from the pathogen."

You nod understandingly at Eledryn.

Alosaka says, "That formula is like a bell that has been rung. It cannot be unrung."

Speaking to you, Xylador says, "Who are, after last nights events, are clearly not infallible."

Speaking to Eledryn, Missoni asks, "And would you kidnap and kill people who know nothing of it in your search for it?"

You ponder the meaning of Xylador's existence.

Missoni flatly says, "Because that is what they did."

Speaking to Xylador, you say, "I am not sure about that. I do not know what happened with Xorus, I have not spoken to him."

Speaking to Missoni, Alosaka says, "Desperate people will do desperate things."

Xylador nods slowly to you.

Xylador says, "I am."

Blades asks, "If it meant the survival of my bloodline?"

Blades glances at Missoni.

Blades says, "I'd do worse."

You nod understandingly.

Xylador folds his hands behind his back.

Speaking to Blades, Missoni says, "That assumes you want the formula for altruistic purposes, and not simply to develop it for use as your own weapon."

Xylador says, "I would just submit that again, the bluff has little recourse beyond possible success."

The Debate

Speaking to Missoni, Alosaka says, "All the more reason to destroy or neutralize it ourselves."

Missoni says, "I do not assume that people who enslave others are going to use it for altrustic purposes."

Blades says, "Both could imply survival, just depends on...your perspective."

Blades chuckles.

Missoni says, "A cure neutralizes it. Destroying it does not."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "You do not throw away your greatest weapon during a battle."

A pained expression crosses Alosaka's face.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "A weapon that terrible, maybe you should."

Missoni says, "Destroying it ensures that the next person who discovers it can use it to run rampant."

Speaking to Xylador, Eledryn says, "It does seem to me, though, that this battle would not have happened if that weapon did not exist."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "That is a childish viewpoint."

Speaking to Missoni, Alosaka says, "Nothing says we cannot do both."

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "And that is a butcher's."

Missoni says, "I am fine with finding a cure and then destroying the poison."

Missoni shrugs.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador asks, "If those I care about are in danger, I am not above a massacre. Can you say the same?"

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Yes."

Missoni says, "I have no wish to see it used."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "That is no different."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "Them or us. I choose those I care about."

Xylador shrugs.

Xylador says, "There is nothing profound to the notion."

Alosaka says, "You assume a false dichotomy. Destroying this formula will not necessarily save anyone, nor will our having it necessarily protect anyone."

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "So then I present this..."

Eledryn sits down next to an oak tree.

You ponder.

You ask, "Does anyone remember if the poison that Rysus drank was a version of the pathogen?"

Speaking to you, Missoni says, "I do not know of that."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador asks, "If you are in a position to choose who in your family dies, and who becomes slaves... Who do you choose?"

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Cryheart looks over at you and shakes his head.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I agree that it does not guarantee our survival, but it slims our enemies."

You say, "The outcome was similar...death followed by--him disintigrating."

Linmur says, "Death before Slavery every time."

You squint.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "That is an immoral choice to participate in. I would refuse."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "Again you hide."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "If, in order to defeat monsters, we must become monsters ourselves, then the number of monsters in the world remains the same or increases."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "Not if I kill more than one."

Xylador curls his lip at Alosaka, his face contorting in a disdainful smirk.

Speaking to Alosaka, Perigourd says, "Quite likely it would only ensure the rise of other more determined monsters in its wake."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "More assumptions."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I have already killed more than one."

Xylador looks lost in thought.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka asks, "Without this much-heralded formula, no less?"

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Perhaps you are quite capable enough without it, then."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I am not posturing, I am making a point. I am telling you, these Krolvin will kill or enslave everyone in this city if given the opportunity. If we have a means to aid us, throwing it away for morality is foolish and irresponsible."

Alosaka says, "We have always stopped the Krol before, using the tools available to us. We've never had to resort to the slaughter of an entire people for it."

Gregnal glances at Alosaka.

Blades folds his arms over his chest.

Xylador shrugs at Alosaka.

Perigourd says, "It wouldn't just kill pure blooded Krolvin either."

Xylador says, "I believe it is specifically designed to do just that."

Speaking to Xylador, Perigourd says, "Any with Krolvin blood, including half-krolvin."

Speaking to you, Drazaa notes, "A rather quieter night this evening."

Speaking to Xylador, Perigourd says, "Plenty of whom are decent folk."

Xylador says, "Of a specific bloodline."

Speaking slowly to Drazaa, you say, "Stand here for five minutes, you will change your mind."

Drazaa laughs softly, trying to hide his amusement.

Blades says, "I'm enjoyin myself."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Let me ask a different question. Imagine the most debased, despicable state you can imagine... whatever it might be for you --- weakness, cowardice, slavery, I don't know. Your choice."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka asks, "Would you rather submit to that, or perish?"

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador asks, "Perish, if not for another way. What is your point?"

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "For me, and I suspect for many others, to fall into the sort of evil we are describing -- using this weapon to eradicate an entire people, without regard for their actions -- is that degree of debasement."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Better to die ourselves than submit to it."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "That is understandable... But you do not simply live for yourself here.."

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I live, and make decisions, based on the best for all those who I protect."

Eledryn leans against an oak tree.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "The difference between us," he gestures between the two of them, "is what we consider to be so horrifically debased that death is preferable."

Perigourd says, "You might consider that those you claim to protect may feel differently as to being used as a reason to commit genocide."

Xylador says, "They will be alive to hate me. That is enough."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Perhaps I have just been lucky, but those I care about are still alive, and I have not had to turn my back on everything that makes me a good person."

Xylador says, "You act as though I seek to sneak upon their ships at night and dose the children in their sleep."

Xylador says, "My actions would be a last resort, when all else seems to fail."

Alosaka says, "I've heard very casual discussion of the use of this weapon. Not what I would consider 'a last resort'."

Speaking to Alosaka, Puptilian says, "Not all Krolvin are evil."

Alosaka nods at Puptilian.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "We have not discussed the use of the weapon. Only whether or not we should."

Xylador shakes his head, totally at a loss.

The coppery barn owl moves closer to Cryheart.

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "That said, your assumptions speak volumes."

[Perspective here switches to Perigourd]

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Alosaka raises an eyebrow in Xylador's direction.

Xylador plainly says, "You assumed I was suggesting a forward assault utilizing the pathogen."

[Short break as Perigourd moved]

Alosaka says, "I do not know of any broadsword that can be weilded like a scapel."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "And as of now, destroying it out of ignorance, morality, and cowardess would be foolish."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Destroy it, yes, but not for any of those reasons. Destroy it because I fear it."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "But not the fear you may suspect. I fear what using it would do to us."

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "I included fear.. That is what cowardess means.."

Alosaka raises an eyebrow.

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Alosaka.

Gregnal stares at Alosaka.

Alosaka asks, "You are of the opinion that fear and cowardice are the same?"

Speaking to Alosaka, Xylador says, "Yes."

Alosaka says, "Hm."

Xylador blinks.

Alosaka glances at you.

You cock your head at Alosaka.

Alosaka asks, "Lord Perigourd, are fear and cowardice the same?"

Speaking to Alosaka, you say, "No."

Xylador asks, "Could we all simply speak aloud?"

Xylador casually glances around the area.

Speaking heartily to Xylador, Khoal says, "If one a coward.. they do not face danger... but one could fear danger and still face it."

Speaking to Alosaka, Puptilian says, "I am sure someone will get the formula, create it, use it on the Krolvin and somehow we will get blamed for it."

Khoal grunts at Xylador and nods.

Xylador shakes his head, totally at a loss.

Alosaka glances around the area.

You say, "I would say cowardice is a failure to overcome ones fears in the moment and falter instead."

Xylador says, "I am going to put this simply."

Xylador says, "I do not think we should throw away something that could save us from an invasion that cannot be repelled."

Xylador says, "To do so is dangerous, and ignorant."

Vaemyr says, "If the formula or poison still exists, it's going to be used at some point, and it'll probably be bad, the only real solution I see is to try to develop some type of cure."

Bernadette nods at Vaemyr.

Speaking to Vaemyr, Missoni says, "Why, that was my precise argument."

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "I respect your opinion."

Vaemyr says, "If you have a cure, you have a much better bargoning chip, and can prevent it from then being used against you even if the poison does get taken."

Speaking softly to Vaemyr, Bernadette says, "I grees."

Xylador says, "Again, there is no guarantee that a cure we create for this will be effective against a variant created by others."

Alosaka tilts his head up.

Vaemyr says, "Xylador that is true, but I would suspect a working cure could be modified in about the same effort as the poison being modified into a variant."

Alosaka sighs.

Alosaka leans on his lance.

Alosaka stands up.

Speaking to Vaemyr, Xylador says, "The only issue is that is significantly harder to cure than to create the variant."

Xylador nods once.

Speaking to Xylador, Alosaka says, "Regardless, I am glad we had this discussion. It helped me refine my thoughts."

Xylador nods slowly at Alosaka.

Khoal grunts, a quizzical look on his face.

Alosaka nods at Cryheart.

Alosaka nods at Missoni.

Xylador looks thoughtfully at Khoal.

Missoni smiles.

Missoni nods at Alosaka.

Alosaka says, "Friends, good evening. Be safe."