MSTRIKE (verb)/saved posts
Roundtime
Topic: General Discussion about H&C
Message #: 3675
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 5/26/2008 11:39:01 PM
Subject: MSTRIKE Update
The following updates have been made to the MSTRIKE verb:
The maximum amount of RT incurred via mstriking has been significantly lessened, particularly for large numbers of swings. In exchange, the duration of the mstrike recovery period has been generally increased. However, it is now possible to use mstrike during the recovery period, at the cost of 40 stamina points (for an open mstrike) or 60 stamina points (for a focused mstrike). Mstrike is no longer useable in the "Muscles Popped" stamina state. The mstrike recovery period is now viewable in SPELL ACTIVE or the Wrayth Active Spells window.
In addition, the training thresholds for additional strikes have been adjusted. The new Multi-Opponent Combat thresholds are:
Open Mstrike
5-14 Ranks : 2 swings
15-34 Ranks: 3 swings
35-59 Ranks: 4 swings
60-99 Ranks: 5 swings
100-154 Ranks: 6 swings
155+ Ranks: 7 swings
Focused Mstrike
30-54 Ranks: 2 swings
55-89 Ranks: 3 swings
90-134 Ranks: 4 swings
135-190 Ranks: 5 swings
190+ Ranks: 6 swings
Coase
Stamina Cost
Topic: General Discussion about H&C
Message #: 3790
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 6/10/2008 5:14:59 PM
Subject: Mstrike Update
The stamina cost for mstriking during the recovery period has been changed to be based upon weapon speed:
Open mstrikes will now cost 20 + (3 * Weapon Speed) stamina points, while focused mstrikes will now cost 30 + (4 * Weapon Speed) stamina points. For two weapon combat, the effective weapon speed is Primary Weapon Speed + (Offhand Weapon Speed - 2, min 0).
Coase
Fatigue
Topic: General Discussion about H&C
Message #: 3863
Author: GS4-WARDEN
Date: 6/14/2008 9:31:56 AM
Subject: MSTRIKE Update II
The following changes have been implemented:
- The fatigue duration for focused swings has been slightly reduced for all weapon types.
- The fatigue duration for TWC has been slightly reduced for both open and focused strikes.
Warden
Recovery Confirmation
Topic: General Discussion about H&C
Message #: 4054
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 8/1/2008 4:13:31 PM
Subject: Mstrike Confirmation Option Added!
A confirmation option has been added to the MSTRIKE verb to reduce the chance of spending stamina unintentionally. When this option is selected, using MSTRIKE to attack while still in recovery mode will require a confirmation on the user's part. The default is for MSTRIKE to require no confirmations. To require confirmations on your MSTRIKE stamina expenditures, simply use the MSTRIKE SET RECOVERY command.
Coase
Unarmed Combat
Topic: Unarmed Combat
Message #: 857
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: 08/27/2015 10:53 PM EDT
Subject: HSN: Unarmed Multistrike
Unarmed combatants may now initiate unarmed multi-strike attacks, provided that they have sufficient training in the Multi Opponent Combat skill. Training thresholds are identical to melee multi-strike requirements for both unfocused (multi-target) and focused (same-target) versions. Such strikes are initiated with the MSTRIKE verb, specifying the type of unarmed attack desired, as in "MSTRIKE GRAPPLE" or "MSTRIKE KICK [target]". Use MSTRIKE HELP for more information and additional usage options.
However, the specified attack is not necessarily used on each individual strike. Instead, the following rules are used for each strike in sequence; the first one on which the conditions are met determines the type of attack.
- If a tier-up strike is pending against the target, use that type of attack.
- If the attacker currently has decent ("tier one") positioning against the target, use JAB. If this is the first jab against this particular target during this MSTRIKE invocation, it does not count for the purposes of total allowed strikes.
- If the attacker has good ("tier two") positioning against a target, use the attack type that was specified at the start.
- If the attacker has excellent ("tier three") positioning against a target, use the attack type that was specified at the start, unless the specified attack type was JAB, in which case choose a random attack from PUNCH, GRAPPLE, and KICK instead.
Related to this release, the ASSESS verb has been updated to list your unarmed position against all foes in the area, via ASSESS UNARMED.
Topic: Unarmed Combat
Message #: 889
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: 08/28/2015 02:02 AM EDT
Subject: Re: HSN: Unarmed Multistrike
>Also, I got 7 jabs while in defensive stance in the clip below on a player, with a weapon I get 6 max. Intended?
Yes. This is a manifestation of the secondary clause of targeting rule (2): "If this is the first [decent positioning] jab against that particular target during this MSTRIKE invocation, it does not count for the purposes of total allowed strikes." Since you had decent positioning and no tier-up attack pending against XXX, the first jab was "free". (And in an open mstrike, you get a free first jab against each target in turn, if at decent positioning and no tier-up attack pending).
>One thing I note is that Assess Unarmed needs to be spelled out in its entirety or you just get the help message...can that be condensed to maybe work on just Assess Unarm... or maybe just make a new verb Position...or battlesense...or something like that to give the information...since Assess already has uses?
This is another one of those parsing issues, and requiring the full spelling minimizes the chance of overlap. Anyway, ASSESS seemed like a decent verb to put it into at the time, but I'm open to other suggestions. (I hate making new verbs for minor functionality, but that's a personal quirk rather than any technical limitation, so I'm not opposed to an entirely new verb if someone proposes one that I like and don't think will be needed down the line for something else. I'm afraid that "position" strikes me as something that would potentially be useful in other systems, and I'm not a fan of "battlesense", though).
>Also, ASSESS UNARMED only works on NPC/critters.
Yup. I figure you're probably not engaging enough other players in combat simultaneously that you need help remembering what your combat status against them is.
Topic: Unarmed Combat
Message #: 915
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: 08/31/2015 02:27 AM EDT
Subject: Re: HSN: Unarmed Multistrike
>RT too long (it looks to be same as 5s melee weapon whatever the UAC attacks are?)
RT calculations are similar for melee and unarmed mstrikes. I'll go into more detail below.
>Does mstrike UAC just waste krynch openings?
Krynch allows you to carry over your positioning to a new opponent; it doesn't create new openings. And it works normally with a multi-strike.
>There's a small bug with spirit servant owners accidentally targeting them, but I think that's already been brought to your attention... (posting it here so other people know what's up).
That should have been fixed about four hours after the announcement. If it is still happening, let me know.
>Also, does Kai's Smite through Voln work with this now? Open and focused?
I thought about it, but decided not to include smite. It doesn't fit quite as neatly into the ruleset from the original announcement, since it is a status-dealing attack rather than a damage-dealing one. It isn't clear whether it would be preferable to use a tier-up attack or continue to smite when encountering a vulnerable foe on an open multistrike, and of course a focused multistrike smite makes very little sense at all.
>What is questionable is the activation of the flurry that got a jab in on the banshee...before the second jab on the sentinel. Is Flurry of blows intended to work in conjunction with Mstrike, meaning someone with 3 ranks in flurry could potentially hit 3 targets with open mstrike 6 times each (on a very rare success)...note, I am not complaining...just want to make sure its not a flawed mechanic.
Hmm. Forgot about that. I'll give it some thought.
>Second question/issue if you mstrike jab a single target (with no ranks in focused mstrike) you get two attacks. Given the RT its actually about the same as doing the attacks separate, but it does give you the chance to tier up in one attack. Since the RT is the same I wouldn't care if this feature was left in place for unarmed attacks, but want to make sure its not seen as mechanics abuse.
Working as intended, although you're technically doing an mstrike on the room where only a single target is present. Unintentional "free" jabs count for about a quarter the RT of a "normal" jab, so in most cases, it'll be folded in and truncated from the total RT.
>It would be interesting if you could, in the future, weave unarmed with melee weapon combat a bit, considering that many ended up using unarmed as a support style instead of a primary hunting method.
That doesn't make much sense in the context of the unarmed combat system. Unarmed attacks build upon each other, but don't give any benefit to a melee attack. There isn't much reason for one character to mix the two against the same foe.
>i) I get long enough RT on a triple focussed strike, e.g. 9s for a triple punch, that I don't want it, although I do want it with a weapon (where I get 3 swings for the RT of 2 rather than 3 swings for the RT of 3).
RT calculation in mstrike is a little strange sometimes, but that strangeness applies to both melee and unarmed variants. Nine seconds for a triple punch is correct; similarly, six seconds for three swings of a short sword and ten seconds for three swings of a broadsword are also both correct. With more MOC training, it also takes nine seconds for a jab plus six punches, eight seconds for six short sword swings, and also ten seconds for six broadsword swings. As I mentioned in another thread, I wouldn't mind revisiting the entire mstrike RT calculation at some point to make it somewhat more sensible, but that wasn't part of this update.
>Can there be a separate flag for setting the maximum number of UAC mstrikes?
You want MSTRIKE SET FOCUS [x]. It applies equally to melee and unarmed mstrikes, but as I said, the RT calculations are the same for each.
>ii) I'm not sure what happens with an opening open mstrike is intended or not, and if it is intended how many strikes it supposed to count as.
As others have noted, the first jab against any given target is "free" when you have only decent positioning against them, and no tier-up attack pending.
>but 6 strikes for the MOC of 3 with tier ups on every one?
Heck, you can get 14 total strikes against seven foes in the room with appropriate MOC ranks. But the tier-ups aren't strictly guaranteed; jab doesn't have a 100% success rate.
Topic: Unarmed Combat
Message #: 925
Author: GS4-FINROS
Date: 09/01/2015 01:43 AM EDT
Subject: Re: HSN: Unarmed Multistrike
>Its not the same as weaponry. My 5s weapon give one strike in 5s. but 2 in 7. My 4s kick gives one kick in 4s but two take 8.
Oh, I see how you mean it. I suppose that there's not really a good way to explain it, since the mstrike RT code is, frankly, a tangled mess. Even after I rewrote it from scratch (albeit preserving the old logic). Strictly speaking, the RT calculation goes through the same steps for both melee and unarmed strikes, but the "base weapon speed" for this calculation is not actually the swing speed. The RT formula given on the player wiki isn't actually the way it is implemented in the code, even though it arrives at the same result for melee weapons. In this particular case, it does look like unarmed strikes are a bit slower, even though they can be faster with more total strikes. If I ever rewrite mstrike RT handling in general, a few oddities like this will probably be smoothed out.
>I haven't done a huge amount of testing, and in situations that should give a high chance normally (stunned, prone and stanced with me having 0-8 levels on them), but I've yet to see it fail.
Right. More precisely, the base chance for a tier-up is not 100%, but level and status modifiers can easily bring it up to that.
>How does krych work with UAC mstrike? Suppose I have just finished off a critter with an excellent punch and two fresh ones gen? What does mstrike punch do?
It is treated exactly the same as if you carried out the strike sequence one attack at a time instead of via mstrike (and the combat messaging reflects that). Here is an example, starting with a krynch carryover from "excellent positioning" against a foe which was dead before this attack started. Note that the free jabs happen based on how I started the attack, not based on what krynch took me to. I got lucky with krynch carryovers against all five combatants in this example, so I ended up at good or excellent positioning against all of them, with ten attacks total because I started at decent positioning versus all of them.
>mstrike punch You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies. With instinctive motions, you weave to and fro striking with deliberate and unrelenting fury! You attempt to jab a triton combatant! You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant! You have good positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 96 + d100: 42 = 147 ... and hit for 8 points of damage! Light punch to stomach makes the triton combatant gasp. Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup punch attack! You attempt to punch a triton combatant! You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 92 + d100: 48 = 149 ... and hit for 39 points of damage! Fully extended punch crushes the bones in the triton combatant's right arm. You attempt to jab a triton combatant! You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant! You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 100 + d100: 12 = 122 ... and hit for 1 point of damage! Lackluster jab to the mid-back. You attempt to punch a triton combatant! You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 98 + d100: 35 = 143 ... and hit for 34 points of damage! Furious punch to the right arm cracks bones! You attempt to jab a triton combatant! You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant! You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 95 + d100: 79 = 183 ... and hit for 21 points of damage! Fast strike jars the spine. You attempt to punch a triton combatant! You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 92 + d100: 47 = 148 ... and hit for 39 points of damage! Rotating backhand cleanly snaps tibia! The triton combatant is knocked to the ground! The triton combatant starts to favor its wounded leg! You attempt to jab a triton combatant! You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant! You have good positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 100 + d100: 96 = 206 ... and hit for 19 points of damage! Hard blow to abdomen does bad things to the triton combatant's digestive system! You attempt to punch a triton combatant! You have good positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 99 + d100: 42 = 151 ... and hit for 27 points of damage! Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side! The triton combatant is knocked to the ground! You attempt to jab a triton combatant! You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant! You have good positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 94 + d100: 10 = 113 ... and hit for 1 point of damage! Lackluster jab to the mid-back. You attempt to punch a triton combatant! You have good positioning against a triton combatant. UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 93 + d100: 61 = 163 ... and hit for 29 points of damage! Wide swing connects with right shin, sweeping it hard to the side! The triton combatant is knocked to the ground! Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you off-balance and out of position. Roundtime: 9 sec.
I think that should have answered all your followup questions as well.
Thurfel's Ward (503) Lore Benefit
Topic: Major Elemental Circle
Message #: 536
Author: GS4-KONACON
Date: 09/05/2015 02:19 PM EDT
Subject: Re: HSN: ELR - Thurfel's Ward (503) Updated!
>Also, what does "a single attack" mean? There's a chance on every swing at us for every creature; 10 creatures swing = 10 chances? Or, there's one chance when attacked by multiple creatures, applied against the first critter to swing at us? Once chance on the first swing of a critter's M-strike? Please define more clearly.
Every time an attack happens against you that uses AS/DS you have a chance to gain 20 DS for that attack. There is no cooldown or anything of that sort. If something M-Strikes you, each individual attack of that M-Strike will have its own separate chance and will only gain the 20 DS for that one part of the M-Strike.
~ Konacon