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:Really not sure why it took so long to remove this section. [[User:VANKRASN39|VANKRASN39]] ([[User talk:VANKRASN39|talk]]) 06:38, 24 June 2015 (CDT)
:Really not sure why it took so long to remove this section. [[User:VANKRASN39|VANKRASN39]] ([[User talk:VANKRASN39|talk]]) 06:38, 24 June 2015 (CDT)
The padding/weighting numbers are finally accurate. [[User:GS4-WYROM|GS4-WYROM]] ([[User talk:GS4-WYROM|talk]]) 13:34, 10 February 2016 (CST)
The padding/weighting numbers are finally accurate. [[User:GS4-WYROM|GS4-WYROM]] ([[User talk:GS4-WYROM|talk]]) 13:34, 10 February 2016 (CST)

This page says CON/5 but [https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/532373273816858636/692608410356809738 Naijin said CON/6] in March 2020. Shall we change it, or was the value updated since then? [[User:GOAT|GOAT]], 20 Mar 2022


==Removed Player Research==
==Removed Player Research==
Line 15: Line 17:


:::Saving an update draft here-- [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 17:20, 19 September 2017 (CDT)
:::Saving an update draft here-- [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 17:20, 19 September 2017 (CDT)
::::Updated main article. [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 20:49, 23 September 2017 (CDT)


:::Question: For armor accessories, if the base armor and the accessory have exactly the same padding value (say, 10 critical padding) but one of them also has some other enhancement property, is the padding halved? Does it matter which item the other property is on? [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 15:22, 21 September 2017 (CDT)
__NOTOC__
<div style="background:#f0f0f0">

{| style="float:right;"
| {{Padding weighting table|type=Padding}}
|}
'''Padding''' is a rare defensive property, typically found on [[armor]], that provides greater-than-normal protection from critical hits (known as "'''critical padding'''") or health point loss (known as "'''damage padding'''"). The level of padding is represented as a number (usually from 0 to 50), known as '''padding points'''. This number is typically not directly visible in-game, but skilled [[warrior]]s can [[ASSESS]] an item to get an estimate. The relationship between padding points and assessed estimates is shown on the table to the right. For example, an item that assesses as "heavily padded against critical blows" has 9-10 points of critical padding.

Certain spells and abilities can also provide temporary padding while they are in effect.

This property is typically not found on off-the-shelf armors from town shops, but may be available in varying levels from special merchants. Merchants may also offer a special service to add padding to an existing piece of armor. Merchant services do not add padding points directly. Instead, they will add a fixed number of '''service points''', which corresponds to actual padding points on a diminishing returns curve.

==Critical Padding==

'''Critical padding''' reduces the critical severity of a successful attack by subtracting a phantom amount (up to the number of padding points, subject to possible [[#Randomization|randomization]] if the padding is greater than 6 points) from the raw HP damage before resolving the critical rank. Critical padding cannot reduce a critical that would have been rank 1 or higher to a rank 0. Characters have natural critical padding derived from [[CON]] bonus, but the exact formula is not known.

For [[attack roll]]s (Attack Strength vs. Defensive Strength), to calculate the maximum critical rank generated by a given endroll it is necessary to know the [[Damage Factor]] of the weapon vs the armor, the [[critical divisor]] of the armor, and the number of padding points the armor has. If the attacker's weapon has [[critical weighting]], its weighting points are added to the phantom damage. The general formula for determining an critical rank is:

{{equation box|{{math|1='''Max Critical Rank = Truncate[((Endroll - 100) * Damage Factor - Randomize(Padding Points) + Weapon Weighting) / Critical Divisor]'''}}}}

where {{math|1='''Randomize(Padding Points) = Padding Points'''}} exactly if {{math|'''Padding Points &le; 6'''}}, otherwise it is a random number in the range {{math|'''[6, Padding Points]'''}} with an unknown distribution.

(Note: Critical weighting is ''not'' randomized and always adds a fixed amount of weighting points.)

After computing the max critical rank, the actual critical rank of the attack result may be reduced by [[critical randomization]] (separately from the randomization of padding level).

Critical damage taken from other sources than attack rolls (such as from flares or maneuvers) is also reduced in many cases, but the exact formulas and conditions where it is applicable are not known.

===Sample Calculations===

The following sample calculations use standard (unweighted) weapons with 200 endrolls and utilize 10 points of critical padding:
*'''Handaxe vs. Brigandine :''' '' ( (200 - 100) * 0.270 - 0 + 0 ) / 7 = 3.86 ≈'' '''Rank 3 critical'''
*'''Handaxe vs. HCP Brigandine :''' '' ( (200 - 100) * 0.270 - 10 + 0 ) / 7 = 2.43 ≈'' '''Rank 2 critical'''
*'''Handaxe vs. Hauberk :''' '' ( (200 - 100) * 0.240 - 0 + 0 ) / 9 = 2.67 ≈'' '''Rank 2 critical'''

===Critical Rank Table===
The table below shows how the critical ranks from a [[handaxe]] and [[maul]] with various endrolls scale across the different armor groups. The calculations including padded armor assumed 10 points of padding. Where noted (*) the padding is sufficient to reduce the critical rank to 0 if it wasn't otherwise restricted to a minimum of rank 1.

{| {{prettytable|float:left;}}
|- align=center style="background:#cccccc"
! rowspan=3 |Endroll || colspan=10 |Handaxe
|- align=center style="background:#cccccc"
! colspan=2 |Cloth || colspan=2 |Leather || colspan=2 |Scale || colspan=2 |Chain || colspan=2 |Plate
|- align=center style="background:#dddddd"
!Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |105 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |110 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |120 ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |130 ||2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |140 ||3 ||1 ||2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |150 ||4 ||2 ||2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |160 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||1 ||2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |170 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||1 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |180 ||6 ||4 ||4 ||2 ||3 ||1 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |190 ||7 ||5 ||4 ||2 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1*
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |200 ||8 ||6 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |210 ||9 ||7 ||5 ||3 ||4 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||2 ||1
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |220 ||10 ||8 ||6 ||4 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |230 ||10 ||8 ||6 ||4 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center
| style="background:#dddddd;" |240 ||11 ||9 ||7 ||5 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |250 ||12 ||10 ||7 ||5 ||5 ||4 ||4 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |260 ||13 ||11 ||8 ||6 ||6 ||4 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |270 ||14 ||12 ||8 ||6 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |280 ||15 ||13 ||9 ||7 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
| style="background:#dddddd;" |290 ||15 ||13 ||9 ||7 ||7 ||5 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||2
|}

{| {{prettytable|float:left;}}
|- align=center style="background:#cccccc"
! colspan=10 |Maul
|- align=center style="background:#cccccc"
! colspan=2 |Cloth || colspan=2 |Leather || colspan=2 |Scale || colspan=2 |Chain || colspan=2 |Plate
|- align=center style="background:#dddddd"
!Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP ||Norm. ||HCP
|- align=center
|0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
|1 ||1* ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
|2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0 ||0 ||0
|- align=center
|3 ||1 ||2 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1* ||0 ||0
|- align=center
|4 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1* ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|5 ||3 ||3 ||1 ||3 ||1 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|6 ||4 ||4 ||2 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1*
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|7 ||5 ||5 ||3 ||4 ||2 ||2 ||1 ||1 ||1
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|8 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|9 ||7 ||6 ||4 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||2 ||2 ||1
|- align=center
|11 ||9 ||7 ||5 ||6 ||4 ||4 ||3 ||2 ||1
|- align=center
|12 ||10 ||7 ||6 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||3 ||2
|- align=center
|13 ||11 ||8 ||6 ||7 ||5 ||5 ||3 ||3 ||2
|- align=center
|14 ||12 ||9 ||7 ||7 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||2
|- align=center
|15 ||13 ||10 ||8 ||8 ||7 ||5 ||4 ||3 ||2
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|16 ||14 ||10 ||9 ||9 ||7 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|17 ||15 ||11 ||9 ||9 ||8 ||6 ||5 ||4 ||3
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|18 ||16 ||12 ||10 ||10 ||9 ||7 ||6 ||4 ||3
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|19 ||17 ||12 ||11 ||11 ||9 ||7 ||6 ||4 ||4
|- align=center style="background:#e8e8e8"
|20 ||18 ||13 ||11 ||11 ||10 ||8 ||6 ||5 ||4
|}

<br style="clear:both;">

==Damage Padding==

'''Damage padding''' directly reduces the blood loss ([[HP]]) inflicted, but will not reduce the critical rank of the original attack. For example, if a particular attack would deal 25 raw damage, then against someone wearing heavily damage padded armor (with 10 points of padding) the attack would instead deal 15 raw points of damage, but the critical rank would still resolve using the original 25 points.

==Randomization==
The amount of padding points applied to a successful attack may be randomized (note that this is distinct from [[critical randomization]]). For critical or damage padded armor up to "somewhat" padded, the amount of padding applied is fixed. That is, any armor with 6 points or less (inclusive) of damage or critical padding will always provide the maximum amount of padding it can to any attack. In the case of greater levels of padding, the amount of padding points applied will be randomized but the armor will never provide less than somewhat critical or damage padding. The exact probability distribution of the possible values is unknown. This change was [[Changes to padding and damage weighting (saved posts)#Changes to Padding and Damage Weighting (1)|announced by GM Warden]] in early 2008.

==Armor Accessories==
Combining armor items with enhancements have various effects. Note that the effects only take place in the active area. i.e. Effects due to enhancement of armor remain unchanged with respect to the head, neck, torso, and arms when worn in conjunction with leg greaves that bare an enhancement.
* '''Padding + Padding (Similar) :''' Armor accessories with padding types similar to the armor they cover result in the area having padding equal to the highest rank between the two. e.g. Masterfully critical padded leg greaves worn with heavily critical padded hauberk results in masterful critical padding of the legs.
* '''Padding + Padding (Dissimilar) :''' Armor accessories with padding types different from the armor they cover causes both types of padding to be halved in effectiveness. e.g. Heavily critical padded leg greaves combined with heavily damage padded hauberk results in somewhat critical and somewhat damage padding of the legs.
* '''Padding + Spikes/Flares :''' Armor accessories with flares combines with critical or damage padded armor results in the padding being halved in that coverage area. e.g. Fire flaring leg greaves combined with heavily damage padded hauberk results in somewhat damage padding of the legs with the appropriate flaring effects.
* '''Padding + Enhancement :''' For these purposes, enhancement refers to resistance to specific damage types, an active bless, or [[TD]] enhancement. Armor accessories with such enhancements cause padding of the base armor to be halved in effectiveness. e.g. Heavily critical padded hauberk worn with blessed leg greaves results in somewhat critical padding of the legs.
* '''Padding + Stat/Skill Enhancement : ''' Armor accessories that are only skill or stat enhancives will retain the padding of the main armor. e.g. Heavily critical padded double leather with +2 strength arm greaves will retain heavily crit padding in that area.

==Merchant Services==

{| cellpadding=5 style="float:left; margin-right:1em; margin-top:0px; background:#F5FAFF; border: 1px solid #CEE0F2;"
|-
! colspan=5 | Weighting/Padding/Sighting (W/S/P) vs. Total Service Points (SP)
|-
|
{| class="wikitable alternating" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! W/S/P !! SP
|-
| 1||10
|-
| 2||20
|-
| 3||30
|-
| 4||40
|-
| 5||50
|-
| 6||70
|-
| 7||90
|-
| 8||110
|-
| 9||130
|-
| 10||150
|}
|
{| class="wikitable alternating" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! W/S/P !! SP
|-
| 11||180
|-
| 12||210
|-
| 13||240
|-
| 14||270
|-
| 15||300
|-
| 16||340
|-
| 17||380
|-
| 18||420
|-
| 19||460
|-
| 20||500
|}
|
{| class="wikitable alternating" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! W/S/P !! SP
|-
| 21||600
|-
| 22||700
|-
| 23||800
|-
| 24||900
|-
| 25||1000
|-
| 26||1100
|-
| 27||1200
|-
| 28||1300
|-
| 29||1400
|-
| 30||1500
|}
|
{| class="wikitable alternating" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! W/S/P !! SP
|-
| 31||1600
|-
| 32||1700
|-
| 33||1800
|-
| 34||1900
|-
| 35||2000
|-
| 36||2100
|-
| 37||2200
|-
| 38||2300
|-
| 39||2400
|-
| 40||2500
|}
|
{| class="wikitable alternating" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! W/S/P !! SP
|-
| 41||2700
|-
| 42||2900
|-
| 43||3100
|-
| 44||3300
|-
| 45||3500
|-
| 46||3800
|-
| 47||4100
|-
| 48||4400
|-
| 49||4700
|-
| 50||5000
|}
|}

The merchant service to add padding points will, in most cases, offer to increase the number of '''service points''' on an item. The relationship between padding points and service points (SP) is shown on the table to the left. This table is shared with [[weighting]] (for melee weapons) and [[sighting]] (for ranged weapons). Weighting/Padding/Sighting properties are collectively known as '''W/P/S'''.

For example, adding 20 service points for critical padding to a non-padded item will give it 2 critical padding points. Adding 20 points to an item that already has 130 service points (9 padding points) will take it to a total of 150 points (10 padding points).

Intermediate values of service points do not confer additional mechanical benefit until reaching the next full padding level: an item with between 130 and 149 service points will behave identically in combat, conferring 9 padding points.

It is possible for an item to have both critical and damage padding, and they can be added separately (with a price surcharge). The total number of service points is still capped at 5000.

=== 60 Day Service Window ===

When a W/P/S merchant service is offered, the price of adding service points increases as more service points are added within the same 60-day window. This service window is tracked '''per item'''.


:::Please also review the service point conversion table. I interpolated some of the values above 20. [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 20:52, 23 September 2017 (CDT)
A 60 day Service Window is started at the first W/P/S on an item. Every W/P/S service done to that item within that 60 days will increase the Service Count within that window. Items will become more expensive to work on as the Service Count increases. Prices increases happen at Service Counts of 5, 10, and 15, with significant prices increases starting at 20+. On the first service after 60 day Service Window ends, the Service Window and Service Counts are reset.


::::In the process of reviewing. I'm changing some of your terminology to make it consistent with what was used in the release posts and today's IG update ("combat effective point" and "combat effectiveness rating" vs. "padding point") and to stop using points for both ("services" vs. "service points"), because that's really confusing. Using "combat effective" instead of "padding" also allows the sections to be used on the weighting and sighting pages, and I'm going to move it to a template. [[User:VANKRASN39|VANKRASN39]] ([[User talk:VANKRASN39|talk]]) 10:58, 24 September 2017 (CDT)
Base item pricing will be determined based on the other attributes of the item, including (but not limited to) enchant, flares, resistances, scripts, etc. The price of a single service of W/P/S is consistent no matter how much of that W/P/S type is on the item, but there is a surcharge for other types of W/P/S on the same item.


:::::For consistency should it simply be "combat effectiveness" for these articles? Official posts have also called it "combat effectiveness ranks". [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 15:34, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
=== Premium Point Padding ===


::::::In the ASSESS it is: "{{boldmono|a combat effectiveness rating of 7 points of [Critical/Damage] [w/p/s] and a 50.0% chance to have a combat effectiveness rating of 8. It has 10 of 20 services towards the next full rank of combat effectiveness.}}" I shortened the points for ease of reading into "combat effective point" so that we'd have a singular unit in talking about a rating, and noted the interchangeability with "combat effectiveness rating," since we typically refer to an item's total points anyway (and we can also add ranks to that). The overarching idea was to have a consistency where when we talk '''points''', people know we're talking about the combat effectiveness of (from the baseline) 0-50 of an item, and when we talk '''services''' we're referring to 0-5000 services on an item, and to be able to use the same terms on all 4 pages. So I would definitely maintain "combat effectiveness rating" and use "points" in some manner to refer to the unit of combat effectiveness, but I'm open to changing "combat effective points" if you feel that is completely incorrect. [[User:VANKRASN39|VANKRASN39]] ([[User talk:VANKRASN39|talk]]) 17:18, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
Heavy Padding (only) is available through the [[Premium Point]] system at a cost of 1200 points + (armor enchant bonus * 100 points). For example, to add heavy critical padding to 4x (+20) suit of armor would cost 1200 + (20 * 100) = 3200 premium points. The premium point benefit is not additive; it will simply take an item to 150 service points.


:::::::It looks like the official term is '''combat effectiveness rating''' (CER) which is ''measured'' in points, so we can use CER throughout instead of CER/CEP. (Analogy: "speed" can be measured in MPH, but it would likely be abbreviated "SPD" in a formula rather than "SPDMPH".) [[User:ZHOUY1|ZHOUY1]] ([[User talk:ZHOUY1|talk]]) 18:12, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
{{clear}}


::::::::That is correct; however, good luck undoing 20 years of habit of people calling them points. It's not going to happen, people are going to call them points, the problem was calling everything points. The article starts out using CEP bc points are what people are familiar with, then transitions to CER at the merchant services, and the first paragraph of the template spells out again that they are the same thing. If you want to propose an edit, I'm open, because there are always improvements to be made and a vast majority of the time you definitely improve on what I do, but I think how it is now makes it clear what points means (bc people are going to use "points"), also uses the official terminology, uses language that can be put on all 4 pages (the template), and doesn't use points for both CER and services. [[User:VANKRASN39|VANKRASN39]] ([[User talk:VANKRASN39|talk]]) 10:00, 27 September 2017 (CDT)
</div>

Latest revision as of 10:23, 20 March 2022

The resistances offered by 620 aren't exactly 'padding'. Also, this page needs some work on its layout. - Andy talk 17:18, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

Really not sure why it took so long to remove this section. VANKRASN39 (talk) 06:38, 24 June 2015 (CDT)

The padding/weighting numbers are finally accurate. GS4-WYROM (talk) 13:34, 10 February 2016 (CST)

This page says CON/5 but Naijin said CON/6 in March 2020. Shall we change it, or was the value updated since then? GOAT, 20 Mar 2022

Removed Player Research

"GILCHRISTR's research indicates that 1 potential phantom damage is removed for each 4 bonus." This is not correct per GM Estild. VANKRASN39 (talk) 19:42, 30 May 2017 (CDT)

WPS merchant service update

Some thoughts on updating the article after the service update: I think it would be clearer to have two tables, one for the point-to-assess-description under a Mechanics section, and one for points-to-services under a Merchant Services section. The article needs to make it very obvious to someone reading about padding/weighting for the first time that the combat mechanics and service points are completely separate things. (It's also a very confusing table at the moment because there's no explanation of what service points are, whether the values are per-step or cumulative, whether it's possible to service items that have a negative rating, and many other questions that have been asked in the official thread.) ZHOUY1 (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2017 (CDT)

Seems fine to me, and pretty logical overall (esp. to have the concern for people newer to looking at the system). GS4-KAIKALA (talk) 19:01, 11 September 2017 (CDT)
Z- Please feel free to pick apart the WPS smithy page for whatever you need, or let me know what you want me to do. VANKRASN39 (talk) 00:38, 12 September 2017 (CDT)
Saving an update draft here-- ZHOUY1 (talk) 17:20, 19 September 2017 (CDT)
Updated main article. ZHOUY1 (talk) 20:49, 23 September 2017 (CDT)
Question: For armor accessories, if the base armor and the accessory have exactly the same padding value (say, 10 critical padding) but one of them also has some other enhancement property, is the padding halved? Does it matter which item the other property is on? ZHOUY1 (talk) 15:22, 21 September 2017 (CDT)
Please also review the service point conversion table. I interpolated some of the values above 20. ZHOUY1 (talk) 20:52, 23 September 2017 (CDT)
In the process of reviewing. I'm changing some of your terminology to make it consistent with what was used in the release posts and today's IG update ("combat effective point" and "combat effectiveness rating" vs. "padding point") and to stop using points for both ("services" vs. "service points"), because that's really confusing. Using "combat effective" instead of "padding" also allows the sections to be used on the weighting and sighting pages, and I'm going to move it to a template. VANKRASN39 (talk) 10:58, 24 September 2017 (CDT)
For consistency should it simply be "combat effectiveness" for these articles? Official posts have also called it "combat effectiveness ranks". ZHOUY1 (talk) 15:34, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
In the ASSESS it is: "a combat effectiveness rating of 7 points of [Critical/Damage] [w/p/s] and a 50.0% chance to have a combat effectiveness rating of 8. It has 10 of 20 services towards the next full rank of combat effectiveness." I shortened the points for ease of reading into "combat effective point" so that we'd have a singular unit in talking about a rating, and noted the interchangeability with "combat effectiveness rating," since we typically refer to an item's total points anyway (and we can also add ranks to that). The overarching idea was to have a consistency where when we talk points, people know we're talking about the combat effectiveness of (from the baseline) 0-50 of an item, and when we talk services we're referring to 0-5000 services on an item, and to be able to use the same terms on all 4 pages. So I would definitely maintain "combat effectiveness rating" and use "points" in some manner to refer to the unit of combat effectiveness, but I'm open to changing "combat effective points" if you feel that is completely incorrect. VANKRASN39 (talk) 17:18, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
It looks like the official term is combat effectiveness rating (CER) which is measured in points, so we can use CER throughout instead of CER/CEP. (Analogy: "speed" can be measured in MPH, but it would likely be abbreviated "SPD" in a formula rather than "SPDMPH".) ZHOUY1 (talk) 18:12, 26 September 2017 (CDT)
That is correct; however, good luck undoing 20 years of habit of people calling them points. It's not going to happen, people are going to call them points, the problem was calling everything points. The article starts out using CEP bc points are what people are familiar with, then transitions to CER at the merchant services, and the first paragraph of the template spells out again that they are the same thing. If you want to propose an edit, I'm open, because there are always improvements to be made and a vast majority of the time you definitely improve on what I do, but I think how it is now makes it clear what points means (bc people are going to use "points"), also uses the official terminology, uses language that can be put on all 4 pages (the template), and doesn't use points for both CER and services. VANKRASN39 (talk) 10:00, 27 September 2017 (CDT)
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