Talk:Spell Collection Guide (scroll infusion)

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Another famous guide has been added to the wonderful knowledge base which is Krakiipedia! (with the express permission of the original author, of course) I would like to take opinions on how folks feel about the 'saved post' format I've used. I also did not link up all the spells because I thought it was overkill, but its not much work and I'm happy to do it if deemed appropriate. ULTHRIPE 01:27, 23 January 2006 (PST)

Is the guide here just to document his guide, or did you want to make it a real page? As a real page, we should probably move it to Scroll Infusion (guide) or Scroll Infusion (spell collection), but then it would be subject to the ups and downs of the Wiki process, and I don't know if Evarin is interested in that. Either way, linking the spell numbers would probably be a good idea (note that you can just link the number, that'll be a redirect to the spell).
Originally, I had just intended to document his guide here. I dont see any reason it cant or shouldn't be wikified, and Evarin has agreed to whatever that entails already. I guess I was wondering if people thought this format was agreeable or if the entirety of the information should be re-organized/re-written. Thank you for the title suggestions, I had a tough time naming it because its NOT a 714 guide in the 'how to use the spell' sense. I've also considered converting it into a table as well. Anyways, I think I'm just trying to get an idea of how other users think this page should take shape. ULTHRIPE 14:55, 23 January 2006 (PST)

As some of you may have noticed, I (Evarin) have gained access to this entry. I have been working with it as best I can, though my knowledge of Wikipedia formatting is rudimentary at best. Does anyone have a basic formatting guide of which they could post a link? Expect continued updates and reformatting. - Evarin and his Mis'ri

Most of us call it MediaWiki formatting, as MediaWiki is the name of the software we're using, but that's neither here nor there. Wikipedia actually has a helpful "Quick Guide to Editing" that you may find handy, though it is very basic. For information on other topics, such as tables, you'll have to look at specific locations. I've learned a bit about editing on WikiMedia.org and MediaWiki.org, though that was more detailing information involving the CSS pages that I can do nothing with due to my lack of admin access, in addition to installing plugins for MediaWiki, though there is a much larger list of helpful articles here. Oh, and to properly sign your name at the end of an article, use four tildes (Like this: ~~~~). Personally, if you really want to get real time help with Krakiipedia, specifically, I suggest you join the #gemstone channel on irc.resequenced.net. Yes, that is an IRC chatroom, which can also be accessed at http://www.resequenced.net/gs4/irc/. I would say that Krakiipedia is a rather common topic of conversation, there, so you won't be out of place asking. This chatroom isn't a secret, I swear. It's on the Main Page. -Andy talk 20:35, 20 September 2006 (EDT)

Thank you for the information. I am just about finished with this page, unless anyone has additional improvements they would like to suggest. I am noticing many of the Cleric spells do not have their own page, nor does any of the Paladin spells. I fixed a few that were dead links due to misnomers. The only thing I would like to do now is figure out a good format for the ...format of the spell information key. I tried to put it in a table, though I couldn't figure the whole table system out.

Spell number - //// "Spell name" //// (non)Stackable/Refreshable status: //// Base duration + spell rank bonus //// (Spell effect) //// Availability

That is the line. If anyone wants to E-mail me with a Pre-coded version of that line that would 1. Put it in a table, 2. Put it beneath the Contents box, but before the first section heading, 3. Make it look pretty. SARDINUS

A Lesson on Tables

Tables are easy. You just start it with a curly bracket and a bar, which'll look like this: {|. You put the same thing at the end of the table, just reversed - bar, then curly braces, to close the table. Now, for the code, to start a line, put a bar and a dash, like so: |-. Then, hit enter, then use another bar. Voila, you've started a line. Type something. Anything. Now, to get another column in your row, you can do two things. Hit enter and type another bar, and that's a column. Or, don't hit enter, and type two, yes, two bars: ||.

So, essentually, to get that one line you used as an example, you can use this code:

{|
|-
| Spell number || "Spell name" || (non)Stackable/Refreshable status
| Base duration + spell rank bonus || (Spell effect) || Availability 
|}

Which looks like this:

Spell number "Spell name" (non)Stackable/Refreshable status Base duration + spell rank bonus (Spell effect) Availability

Now, lets pretty that up a bit. There's a template, called "Prettytable" which you add just after the curly braces and bar. To use a template, simply surround the template's name by two curly braces on each side, like this: {{Prettytable}}. Now, to make a row a header row, change the inital bar to an exclimation point. Also, since there are going to be multiple tables, it might be wise to set a width for your columns, which I will simply show below rather than explain. Now our code looks like this:

{| {{prettytable}}
|-
! width = 100px | Spell number || width = 100px | "Spell name" || width = 250px | (non)Stackable/Refreshable status
! width = 250px | Base duration + spell rank bonus || width = 100px | (Spell effect) || width = 100px | Availability 
|}

Which results in this table:

Spell number "Spell name" (non)Stackable/Refreshable status Base duration + spell rank bonus (Spell effect) Availability

Note that both lines of code start with an exclimation point. This is necessary if you want the entire row to be a header row, otherwise all the code on the second line would not be bolded or centered. Now, lets talk about that width code. Basically, two bars starts a new column. One bar afterwords tells MediaWiki that all text between the two bars and one bar is code specific to that small block. Now, since the highest width of a column sets the width for the entire column, we're golden for every row afterwords. By the way, 100px stands for 100 pixels, which means that if someone views the page with abnormally large fonts, the tables get a bit wonky. You can set them to a percentage, as well, but in all reality, abnormalities will always mess up table arrangement. If you put the "width" modifier just after the table start bracket (where the prettytable template resides) you can set the width for the entire table. Here, if you set a percentage, it will be the percentage width of the entire frame.

Now, I'm going to do a bit of rearranging and retitling, et cetra, and turn this table into what you currently have on the article. Here's the code:

{| {{Prettytable}}
|-
! Width = 100px | Spell || width = 250px | Duration || width = 100px | Effect || width = 75px | Availability
|-
| [[Spirit Shield (202)]] || Non-stackable: 1200 Seconds +60 || +10 DS || Common
|-
| [[Prayer of Protection (303)]] || Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 || +10 DS || Common
|-
| [[Thurfel's Ward (503)]] || Stackable: 1200 Seconds + 60 || +20 DS || Common
|-
| [[Elemental Deflection (507)]] ||  Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 || +20 DS || Common
|-
| [[Elemental Bias (508)]] || Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 || +20 Elem TD || Common
|-
| [[Strength (509)]] || Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 ||+15 STR || Rare
|-
| [[Natural Colors (601)]] || Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 || +10 DS  || Common
|-
| [[Resist Elements (602)]] || Stackable: 1200 Seconds +60 || +15 bolt DS, See spell || Common
|-
| [[Mass Colors (611)]] || Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 || +10 DS, Group ||Rare
|-
| [[Prismatic Guard (905)]] || Non-Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 ||+5 DS, +20 Ranged DS || Common
|-
| [[Mass Blur (911)]] || Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 || +20 [[Dodge]] Ranks, Group || Rare
|-
| [[Mantle of Faith (1601)]] || Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 || +5 DS, +5 Spirit TD || Common
|}

And now, here's the table itself:

Spell Duration Effect Availability
Spirit Shield (202) Non-stackable: 1200 Seconds +60 +10 DS Common
Prayer of Protection (303) Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 +10 DS Common
Thurfel's Ward (503) Stackable: 1200 Seconds + 60 +20 DS Common
Elemental Deflection (507) Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 +20 DS Common
Elemental Bias (508) Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 +20 Elem TD Common
Strength (509) Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 +15 STR Rare
Natural Colors (601) Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 +10 DS Common
Resist Elements (602) Stackable: 1200 Seconds +60 +15 bolt DS, See spell Common
Mass Colors (611) Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 +10 DS, Group Rare
Prismatic Guard (905) Non-Stackable: 600 Seconds +15 +5 DS, +20 Ranged DS Common
Mass Blur (911) Stackable: 900 Seconds +30 +20 Dodge Ranks, Group Rare
Mantle of Faith (1601) Stackable: 600 Seconds +30 +5 DS, +5 Spirit TD Common

Now, that wasn't too hard, was it? You could've followed the link I provided and learned this, you know. There are more links up there that provide detailed information about how to edit a WikiMedia article, and, of course, we still exist in that chatroom and are quite capable and often willing to provide help. Also, a suggestion: try to limit how much information you add to pages like this. More information is good, but size it to achieve merely a basic understanding of what the spell does. More detailed information about the spell should be in the spell's dedicated article, which is why they're all linked. For example, I significantly shortened the Resist Elements entry. Also, try not to use non-standard abbreviations. "DS" is fine, but "spir" and "elem" are much less acceptable. Also, when referring to both spell numbers and spell names, combine them into one link, like shown. There is no need to create a header for both, as the header, "Spell number" takes up quite a bit of space compared to the number itself. Finally, notice how the spells are in numerical order by both the spell's circle number and the spell's level. Even though this splits up the 500's and 900's, I would like to make this a standard.

I would also like to point out that I will never make you a table again. I will help, oh, yes, I will help, but I will never do the entire job for you again. You know what they say: "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach the man how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime." -Andy talk 22:09, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

First, let me start out by saying thank you for your information. I honestly did attempt to read through a lot of the site's documentation, and I learned a lot about the coding of the webpage. I have never done anything like this before, and it is slow going.
Second, though the table mechanics may be second nature to you, even when explained to me the information is still difficult to grasp. I did read the table documentation (for about 15-20 mins), I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. I think to get the spell's full affect descriptions into the space provided will be a real bitch, but I will see what I can do. I think the data provided is more important than it looking good.
I will continue to work with this guide in an effort to provide those that come here with accurate, easily accessable information. Thanks again, SARDINUS

My point with the information is that it is in the spell's article. Take Mass Colors, for example. The spell doesn't only add +10 to DS, but it also increases your bonus to hide in a wilderness area. Why bother putting that on the table here? It is only a secondary effect, and if a user wishes to learn more about the spell, they can always look at the spell's page. Completeness of information is important, but we don't need all the information in one place. Information is easily accessed by links, which is the main advantage of a web-based Wiki. Personally, I feel that we likely don't even need most of the things listed on these tables to be here, such as duration, if the spell is stackable, or its effects, since this information is all contained in the articles for the spell, however, a short description is useful, so I will not push its removal entirely. Thus, I say that descriptions should exist, but shortened for attractiveness as well as usefulness. And the reason I push for attractiveness is because it is what an encyclopedia should be. It's a work of art as well as a source of information. For more information on why I feel this way, Krakiipedia:Village pump#Spell Templates.2C Round 2 has all six links to images of a book that state the definitions of an encyclopedia. I agree with this document and push for its use in our own Wiki. -Andy talk 00:23, 22 September 2006 (EDT)

One more suggestion: Try using the Preview button more often, rather than saving your changes so often. Additionally, if you're going to make a minor edit and save it, please, please, use the "This is a minor edit" checkbox above the "Save Page" button. You've over 90 edits to this article in the past two days, all of them marked as full edits. For those of us that habitually click on the Special:RecentChanges page, your edits are essentually all we see, due to the initial setting of "Show last 50 edits." If you mark the minor edits as minor, at least then we can filter them out. -Andy talk 00:40, 22 September 2006 (EDT)

Cackles My mistake with the edit feature. I figured that may be something I should keep track of, though again, I just jumped in and started hacking away at the data rather than learn the programming from start to finish. I will take your other suggestions under advisement, and try to start updating the Spells so that the information I think important is easily accessable to the reader should they click on the spell name itself.

This has truly been a learning experience for me, and I am proud to say that when finished, this guide will be one of the more impressive pieces of information I have ever assembled. Thanks once again for your time and patience. Once finished here, I will certainly look to creating additional documents to submit to Krakiipedia. SARDINUS

Tables are done. I now have to consider attempting to shorten the effect descriptions by fleshing out the actual pages for the spells. Other than that, I need to see if Evil Eye, and a few other spells are exempt from commonly occuring scrolls, as I never really pay attention to sorcerer spells on srolls. Any other suggestions are welcome. 11:18, 22 September 2006 (EDT)