Town Council Debates Vaalorian Presence
- Alendrial and Thadston welcomed citizens and visitors to participate in a discussion of the meeting with Ta'Vaalor during which the Vaalorians sought redress in the form of claims on the Elven Village near Wehnimer's Landing.
- Speakers who joined the list included Puptilian, Chamorr, Leafiara, Lylia, Yhtrin, Ysharra, Zosopage, Lynaera, Nazarr, Cryheart, Maags, Meureii, Telare, Dergoatean, and Thadston.
Alendrial says, "Well then. Tonight, is about hearing your voice."
Alendrial says, "For good, bad, indifferent, whichever you wish to speak."
Alendrial says, "Please, join the speaker list."
Alendrial says, "If you wish a turn."
Alendrial asks, "Only 4?"
Alendrial glances at a speaker list.
Lylia says, "There will be more, once people sense the tone and tenor of the debate -- and then choose contrary positions."
Speaking amusedly to Alendrial, Lylia says, "Welcome to Wehnimer's Landing."
Alendrial says, "As I stated, before the council can weigh in fully on this...."
Alendrial says, "Tonight, we'd like to hear your thoughts, or concerns, or comments on Ta'Vaalor taking control of the Elven Village near the Red Forest."
Alendrial says, "We'll begin going through the speaker list."
Alendrial says, "Puptilian..."
Puptilian says, "Council, Mayor, fellow citizens and friends. We all are part of the landing, and the landing stands on its own. No one speaks for us but us."
Puptilian says, "In that same thought."
Puptilian says, "I say we give the villiage their own voice."
Puptilian says, "If their leaders want to join TV, so be it. If they want to stand on their own so be it. If they want to be a part of us so be it."
Puptilian says, "I will respect and defend their choice in this."
Puptilian says, "As a good neighbor should."
Puptilian says, "So I say we speak to their leaders and see what their opinion is on the subject."
Alendrial says, "Thank you Puptilian."
Puptilian asks, "Do we have someone from the village to speak on their behalf?"
Alendrial says, "Tonight? No."
Alendrial says, "But it can be arranged in the future."
Alendrial says, "Chamorr, you're up."
Ysharra says, "This discussion doesn't have to be about permission or deterrence."
Ysharra says, "But more about what we might expect, should things go one way or another."
Maags says, "What does Vaalor want to do with it."
Chamorr heartily says, "Well, Pup said it all."
Chamorr heartily says, "Who are we to negoiate anyones home."
Speaking to Maags, Puptilian says, "Think Imperial Outpost but for TV."
Maags says, "I see."
Chamorr heartily says, "If you decide to give Vaalor the hidden village, whose homes are next."
Thadston says, "The kobold village."
Thadston says, "The Obsidian Tower."
Leafiara adamantly says, "They can't have that either."
Maags exclaims, "Nobodies can has our kobolds!"
Arku softly asks, "Would you pass up a chance to have your authority over surrounding lands recognized by an eastern power?"
Speaking to Thadston, Darcena says, "No."
Chamorr heartily says, "If vaalor wants an outpost, let em build ot other side the frry."
Stormyrain states, "There's a list for those who wish to speak."
Chamorr heartily says, "Thanks."
Alendrial says, "Thank you Chamorr."
Alendrial says, "Leafiara. You are up."
Leafiara acknowledges, "Well, Pup had already brought up my first thought that it doesn't seem like this is even our question to decide, so I'll move on to my second..."
Leafiara frankly says, "I don't trust the Vaalorian leadership. I don't trust that it's going to be mutually beneficial to them and the village, nor to them and us--I trust that they intend it for their own benefit and no one else's."
Speaking to Leafiara, Melikor says, "Likely."
Leafiara ruefully says, "And anyone who's walked their streets without being a Vaalorian themselves... knows well their intolerance and the way they look down on all others."
Leafiara insists, "Don't trust them. That's all I ask, in whatever decision we make."
Alendrial says, "Thank you."
Alendrial says, "Mayor Lylia."
Lylia says, "So far, too many of you are laboring under the mistaken impression that this is a simple request, that we have only to ask the few dozen Elves there what they think of Vaalorian sovereignty, and that is that."
Lylia incredulously asks, "Have you ever met anyone from Ta'Vaalor?"
Lylia says, "Do you know what they are known for? It is not singing, or wines, or the study of the language of fans or flowers."
Lylia flatly says, "It is war."
Lylia says, "And yet, Lord Chamberlain Retassal did not meet me with discourtesy or threats. This is a clear signal."
Speaking to Lylia, Darcena asks, "Are you scared?"
Lylia raise her voice in merry laughter.
Lylia says, "No. Not at all. But I see an opportunity here."
Lylia simply says, "To use the plainest Common translation of that message: 'We can do this the easy way or the hard way.'."
Maags says, "Did the Chamberlain ask or tell yous."
Speaking to Darcena, Jeril says, "Hard to scare a witch unless you have a bucket of water."
Maags says, "Told."
Speaking heartily to Lylia, Chamorr says, "Bein a dark elf, you wouldnt be allowed in."
Lylia says, "If we go the 'easy way,' we have much to gain. We have a check on other Imperial overreach from...other quarters."
Speaking coldly to Chamorr, Lylia says, "I have the floor."
Lylia says, "We also have the recognition from a sovereign nation that our boundaries exceed those of our town's walls. This is risky -- but potentially useful."
Puptilian says, "Not disagreeing on that last part."
Lylia says, "We should not discount the possibility out of hand. Ultimately, what we decide now is not only for us, but for those of you whose generations of children and children's children will live here."
Lylia asks, "Do you want to hand them a war-torn land, or one that is at the nexus of many powers held in check with one another?"
Lylia says, "I ask that you think about this not as provincial villagers, but as a future power ourselves."
Lylia inclines her head.
You say, "I yield the floor."
Alendrial says, "Thank you."
Alendrial says, "Yhtrin, you're up."
Yhtrin says, "I see this as a warning. A friendly warning, but none the less. They intend to take this village and we can either approve, and potentially make an ally and have a balancing check on the empire...or we can condemn it and have another enemy on our border when they take the village regardless."
Yhtrin says, "May not enjoy my words, but when it comes to Empires, they only act one way with one goal. Conquest."
Speaking quietly to himself, Meureii mumbles, "Two decades of conquest..."
Yhtrin says, "Better to put both Empires against each other then have them as enemies."
Alendrial says, "Thank you."
Roelaren says, "Someone representing the village should have been here tonight."
Lylia says, "They were invited. All in the region were."
Alendrial says, "Ysharra."
Ysharra says, "First, I was never under the impression that we're here tonight to give them away or forbid them to go. The Village, that is."
Ysharra asks, "We're here to discuss what this could mean for us. Yes?"
Ysharra says, "What if the Vaalor are looking to shore up their own weaknesses, which were exposed by the long winter and the risk of famine? Perhaps they now recognize the risk of being so insular throughout the past few centuries."
Alendrial says, "A little of both I suppose."
Ysharra says, "The idea of...breaking their power into something decentralized has some appeal."
Ysharra says, "And besides, they may bring some trade and other benefits with them."
Ysharra asks, "Would they bring airships? Would those have made a difference in Talador?"
Evia says, "Or perhaps a toll for entering their newest chunk of space."
Ysharra says, "It's been over a year now, and most of the survivors still have no permanent home."
Ysharra says, "Some quicker ways to supply one another could have come in handy."
Ysharra says, "That's all."
Alendrial says, "Zosopage."
Zosopage asks, "What benefits to the Elven Villiage and us in The Landing do they intend to bring with them, or have they even stated any as such? Why would this be a good idea to allow this to happen?"
Zosopage asks, "Can someone answer for them at this time?"
Alendrial asks, "To answer for Ta'Vaalor?"
Alendrial says, "None here can."
Zosopage says, "In my opinion we can't really move forward with this until we can speak with them to see what they bring to the table."
Zosopage says, "It's all conjecture in the meantime."
Alendrial asks, "Lady Lynaera?"
Speaking to Alendrial, Lynaera asks, "Yes?"
Alendrial asks, "You had something to say, for the Nations?"
Lynaera says, "I live in Ta'Vaalor, and may be able to provide a few answers."
Lynaera says, "However, I cannot provide them on behalf of The Crown."
Alendrial says, "Please, we would hear your thoughts."
Lynaera says, "King Qalinor is rather progressive, however, the long winter has been a disaster for the Fortress."
Lynaera says, "Expanding through the area gives them more control over their future, and allows for easier trade and troop movements to fight distant and near threats."
Lynaera says, "Their....proximity, would also allow the over City States to trade here, as well."
Lynaera says, "They may also be expanding to count to counter the growing power of New Ta'Faendryl."
Lynaera says, "That is, of course, just a thought."
Lynaera apologizes, "Please forgive my interruption."
Leafiara earnestly says, "She asked you for your thoughts--it wasn't an interruption."
Puptilian says, "Thank you for a different perspective on the subject."
Alendrial says, "Thank you."
Alendrial says, "Puptilian again."
Puptilian says, "I will keep it a bit shorter."
Puptilian says, "When i was mayor I also looked for ways to expand the influence of the Landing."
Puptilian says, "I still think its a good idea and one to explore."
Puptilian says, "To go beyond the walls of this town."
Puptilian says, "That said, I will not just hand over another group of people to do so. The price of handing over a villiage that may or may not want to join Vaalor in my eyes is too much."
Saranja quietly says, "Excuse me.... the Mayor spoke of a choice between generations of war and a balance of power. I have a question, meaning no disrespect... how are we to be sure power remains 'balanced?' Will we not have to become a fortress city to guard against treachery?... if we are thinking of future generations, we must ask what freedom we cost them now..."
Puptilian says, "The right way to go about this is to speak with that villiage and if that will not work, I think offering an embassy here for TV may be a directin we could go."
Speaking to Saranja, Lylia says, "There are different sorts of power."
Speaking to Puptilian, Zosopage says, "Hence why I asked what do they have to bring to the table, what benefits would they provide."
Puptilian says, "You heard my point on this. I think its a payment too high no matter how much or how little we could gain."
Speaking to you, Ysharra says, "You called it when we first started."
Lylia says, "And again, you are under the misapprehension that asking the ant which hill it wishes to reside within will stop the building of great towers."
Alendrial says, "Thank you."
Alendrial says, "Nazarr."
Nazarr says, "Frankly, it occurs to me that once they have the Elven Village, they will be poised to divide the land and control the EN Trail. A potential position of power, militarily and economically. However, I do not see the value in their recognition. What I see is that they will use the recognition of the Landing and our Faendryl Mayor as an excuse. And somehow, I feel certain that their incursions will be blamed on the Faendryl. They do not, after all, need to march across the lands to fight threats. There are plenty in the Nations already. And their merchants do not require military escorts. They want more power--which is understandable--but they want it at the Landing's expense while scapegoating the Faendryl. 'Oh, we only came here because the Faendryl are growing too powerful! It's their fault! It certainly isn't ours.' I don't trust them, and I see no reason to pretend their recognition is of any value. I do not trust them to deal in good faith."
Alendrial says, "Thank you Nazaar. Noted."
Alendrial says, "Cryheart."
Cryheart says, "Firstly, I think we need to understand the legality of circumstances."
Cryheart says, "Before we can discuss this."
Cryheart asks, "First, the elven village existed before the Landing?"
Cryheart asks, "Secondly, does the Landing hae title over the Elven village?"
Alendrial says, "Were I to guess, I would gather Ta'Vaalor cares little of our claim to the land, and more on whether we agree or resist."
Cryheart says, "And I do think the elven village was here before the Landing was built if I recall history."
Speaking to Cryheart, Goldstr says, "I woulds thinks yes and no."
Puptilian says, "We resisted the Empire with little help. I would think we could resist the nations with the help of the empire. If it came down to that which I hope doesn't."
Speaking to Alendrial, Stormyrain says, "I don't think that question is about Vaalor's feelings on the matter, but on how we conduct ourselves as the Landing."
Lylia notes, "The Vaalorians offer their own answer to the second question. It is part of what their discussion with me entailed -- the tacit agreement that they recognize our sovereignty over a wider reach."
Cryheart says, "Well..regardless of whether Ta'Vaalor cares or not...I cannae see how we could actually limit the elven village of what they could or not do."
Lylia dryly remarks, "We resisted the Turamzzyrian Empire so much, we have an outpost within sight of my window upstairs."
Lylia asks, "Why do we speak of resistance when we can speak of alliance?"
Alendrial says, "Maags you are next."
Lylia says, "But I am not on the list. I shall hold those thoughts."
Cryheart says, "We still need to consider our legal options, but for the most part, I hae no problems with the elven village making up their own minds."
Maags says, "Problies I am repeating others somewhat but, I thinks this would be a different conversation if Vaalor asked to has an outpost or an embassy here."
Maags says, "But I do not believes that we should even consider -letting- them takes over the elven village."
Maags says, "It will not look upon us kindlies if we allow Vaalor or anybodies to overtake a village if they do not wish it."
Maags says, "We needs to stand up for what is right, not was is easies."
Maags says, "Or avoids war at great cost to our....honor."
Alendrial says, "Meureii."
Meureii says, "There are multiple moving parts to this equation."
Meureii says, "I will highlight them succinctly and move along."
Meureii says, "First, we are missing the largest opportunity presented."
Meureii says, "These elves have gone through a hardship that many have nae ever witnessed."
Meureii reminds, "We will face the same in two months time from the Krolvin."
Meureii sternly says, "Do nae forget that."
Meureii says, "We are faced with an option."
Meureii says, "Given the proximity to our town, certain Imperial establishments, and the fact that they are crossing over the spine attempting to "claim" something, raises all sorts of political questions."
Meureii says, "Solhaven should be made aware, the Elves should be made aware of the Krolvin as well, and together THEY should be given the option to help, or face an ultimate demise of their people should they show us ill will."
Meureii says, "Do nae harm our town, our citizens, or our land and there won't be problems."
Meureii simply says, "That is all."
Alendrial says, "Telare."
Telare says, "I will keep this fairly short."
Telare says, "When I first came north from my homeland, Illistim and Vaalor were places that I frequented and came to appreciate."
Telare says, "I believe in considering this proposition, we should be fair about considering the history and tendencies of the House of Vaalor. Yes, they are a warrior people. But they are a people with honor. They are not known for warmongering, or wresting control of territory from other nations and subjugating their people. The Nations have a history of aiding the West, and I believe this should not go ignored.Good relations may prove a valuable asset to the Landing, as historically we have faced incursions from many other sources."
Telare says, "In my personal dealings with Vaalorians, I have found them to be most upright and honorable This includes the King himself.. I do not see that Vaalor has much to gain by causing any friction with the West. On the contrary."
Telare says, "The village should be afforded some autonomy to decide their own destiny for themselves."
Telare says, "That is all."
Alendrial asks, "Thadston?"
Thadston says, "A simple question."
Thadston says, "The elves will take what they want."
Thadston asks, "If the Red Forest Elves of the village decline, will you fight for them?"
Leafiara nods firmly.
Goldstr casts his vote with an emphatic "Aye!"
Stormyrain adopts an agreeable expression.
Meureii says, "If they can nae defend themselves.."
Meureii casts his vote with an emphatic "Aye!"
Puptilian says, "I will."
Evia casts her vote with an emphatic "Aye!"
Cryheart says, "If they ask us, aye."
Saranja nods at Thadston.
Zosopage adopts an agreeable expression.
Puptilian agrees with Cryheart.
Xorus shakes his head.
Chamorr heartily says, "Aye."
Leafiara nonchalantly says, "Not even in question."
Lylia simply says, "No. I shall not waste our people in defense of those whose names most of you do not even know."
Lylia asks, "Or am I wrong about that?"
Speaking heartily to Thadston, Chamorr asks, "Will the militia?"
Zosopage says, "So basically if the Elven Villiage declines and Vaalor takes it anyway, then its war."
Lylia says, "You care only because someone else does."
Madmountan asks, "Do I get to slaughter Vaalorians for a very vague reason because of a handful of local elves, if so?"
Speaking to Lylia, Puptilian says, "There are several that go to the Shrine with me. They are not all strangers."
Thadston says, "I would caution against drawing the ire of large empires to the south and east."
Speaking to Puptilian, Lylia says, "Perhaps not to you. I guarantee they are strangers to most."
Lylia says, "Nobility and futility rhyme, but they are not synonyms."
Maags says, "The right thing is usuallies not the easiest thing."
Alendrial says, "Dergoatean."
Dergoatean says, "There is a field just west of this elven village."
Dergoatean says, "Almost identically situated, in terms of strategic value, with respect to the trail between here and the east."
Ysharra asks, "Including the Krolvin? The Reivers?"
Dergoatean says, "We could suggest that they clear a bit of land on the margins of that plot and build as identical a village as they desire."
Dergoatean says, "And while they're at it, they can clear up a bit of an infestation of the uncooperatively dead."
Dergoatean says, "Seems like a win-win-win-win to me."
Dergoatean says, "Alliances forged."
Dergoatean says, "Self-determination honored."
Cryheart says, "And option..and a viable one."
Dergoatean exclaims, "Souls unshackled!"
Thadston says, "Think less of what the elves seek tomorrow, and what of what they seek one hundred years from now."
Thadston says, "I've heard enough for tonight."
Stormyrain says, "Have you tried countering with an offer of an embassy here in town, or just outside the gates Madame Mayor? Mayhaps that would solve all of the issues I am currently hearing."
Speaking to Thadston, Meureii says, "Sir, with all due respect, one hundred years means nothing two months from now."
Thadston says, "Good eve all."
Lord Thadston just went through a double door.
Leafiara reasons, "Whatever opportunity we might or might not have in this, it was them who sprung the idea on us. They probably see greater opportunity--as they've had more time to think it through than us."
Speaking to Leafiara, Lylia says, "Absolutely. All the more reason, then, to think quickly. To be agile. It is our greatest strength."
Lylia says, "And our greatest weakness is divisiveness for the sake of division."
Alendrial says, "That concludes our list of speakers for tonight."
Alendrial says, "The Town Council shall meet behind closed doors this week."