Two Weapon Combat: Difference between revisions
m (→Pros and Cons) |
(removed bit about -10 AS for using a katana one handed, removed during PSM3) |
||
(28 intermediate revisions by 11 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
Training in '''Two Weapon Combat''' (TWC or 2WC) allows a character to swing a weapon in |
Training in '''Two Weapon Combat''' (TWC or 2WC) allows a character to swing a weapon in their off-hand. |
||
== Ranks and Training Point Costs == |
== Ranks and Training Point Costs == |
||
Line 6: | Line 6: | ||
| Clericranks = 1 || Clericcost = 9/9 |
| Clericranks = 1 || Clericcost = 9/9 |
||
| Empathranks = 1 || Empathcost = 12/12 |
| Empathranks = 1 || Empathcost = 12/12 |
||
| Monkranks = 2 || Monkcost = 2/2 |
|||
| Paladinranks = 2 || Paladincost = 3/3 |
| Paladinranks = 2 || Paladincost = 3/3 |
||
| Rangerranks = 2 || Rangercost = 3/2 |
| Rangerranks = 2 || Rangercost = 3/2 |
||
Line 18: | Line 19: | ||
===Roundtime=== |
===Roundtime=== |
||
[[Roundtime]] is calculated based on the base roundtime of each weapon, the weight of the off-hand weapon, and the user's [[strength]]. Swinging two weapons at once is far faster than swinging each of the weapons individually, but only fast off-hand weapons add no penalty whatsoever to swing speed. For the lowest roundtime, the weapon in the off hand should be at least as fast as the weapon in the right hand and should not be very heavy. To use an off-hand weapon without penalty, you must have the following strength bonuses: |
|||
[[Roundtime]] is calculated based off of the Base RoundTimes of both weapons. The basic formula is as follows: |
|||
{| {{Prettytable}} |
|||
<TT>TWCBaseRT = Weapon1BaseRT + (Weapon2BaseRT - 2)</TT> |
|||
|- |
|||
*Weapon1BaseRT is the Base Roundtime for the weapon in your right hand |
|||
! Off-hand Weight !! Minimum Strength Bonus |
|||
*Weapon2BaseRT is the Base Roundtime for the weapon in your left hand |
|||
|- |
|||
*TWCBaseRT is the outcome of the formula, and is the Base Roundtime (Not nessecarily the actual swing roundtime) for your TWC attacks |
|||
| 3 pounds || +5 |
|||
*(Weapon2BaseRT - 2) cannot be less than zero. This means that if you are using a dagger in your off hand (Base Roundtime of 1) then you will add 0 to the Base RT of your main weapon, instead of taking away time to prevent you from swinging your main weapon faster with a weapon in the off hand than you normally would be able. |
|||
|- |
|||
| 4 pounds || +20 |
|||
|- |
|||
| 5 pounds || +35 |
|||
|} |
|||
===Two-Weapon Combat=== |
|||
There are also penalties applied to your roundtime for having a weapon in your off hand heavier than your strength bonus would normally permit, as well as for using slower weapons in the off hand to prevent you from swinging faster by using specific combinations(Example: Dagger/Main Gauche combination results in a 2 second Base RT instead of 1 Second) |
|||
A character trained in [[Two Weapon Combat]] has the ability to attack with a weapon in each hand. These attacks happen simultaneously, and far faster than it would take to swing each weapon individually. When calculating the roundtime to swing two weapons at once, it is best to think of them as combining to make a single custom weapon base with its own base RT. |
|||
Assuming the character's off-hand weapon is at least as fast and as light as their primary weapon: |
|||
Note that in all the formulas above Base RT is used instead of swing RT. Swing RT can be calculated from the base RT as it would be for a normal weapon. |
|||
:''See the '''[[Roundtime]]''' article for more information on how swing roundtime can be reduced.'' |
|||
<div {{prettydiv|margin-right=30%}}>TWCBaseSpeed = RightBaseSpeed + max(LeftBaseSpeed - 2, 0) + max(WeightPenalty, 0)<br/><br/> |
|||
WeightPenalty = min(LeftWeight - 2 - STROffset, 3)<br/><br/> |
|||
STROffset = trunc((STRBonus + 10)/15) |
|||
</div> |
|||
This means that most characters can use a 3-pound weapon with a base speed of 2 in their off hand as if it were not there. Characters with a 25 strength bonus can use a 4-pound weapon without penalty, and characters with significantly more strength can use further heavier weapons. Every additional second of base speed or pound of weight beyond that limit increases the base roundtime by 1 second. |
|||
This TWC base speed is used in all roundtime calculations, including the calculation of minimum weapon speed. |
|||
:''See the '''[[Melee Roundtime]]''' article for an in-depth discussion of the factors that go into the calculation.'' |
|||
===Attack Strength=== |
===Attack Strength=== |
||
Line 37: | Line 55: | ||
===Defensive Strength=== |
===Defensive Strength=== |
||
TWC [[parry]] DS is the sum of the primary hand DS + Off-hand DS. |
|||
A character's DS when using an off-hand weapon is calculated simularly to the DS granted from their primary weapon training. While the primary weapon grants DS according to the following formula |
|||
====Primary Hand DS==== |
|||
Primary (right) hand parry DS uses the standard one-hand [[parry]] DS formula. One rank in the appropriate weapon skill is required to activate parry DS. This formula is also used for open-hand [[Brawling|brawlers]]. |
|||
<div {{prettydiv|margin-right=20%}}>Primary hand DS = [(Weapon ranks + STR/4 + DEX/4 + enchant bonus/2) × stance modifier] + stance bonus</div> |
|||
:{| {{prettytable|text-align:center;}} |
|||
|- |
|||
!align=right|'''Stance'''||OFF||ADV||FOR||NEU||GUA||DEF |
|||
|- |
|||
|align=right|'''Modifier'''||0.20||0.30||0.40||0.50||0.60||0.70 |
|||
|} |
|||
:{| {{prettytable|text-align:center;}} |
|||
|- |
|||
!align=right|'''Stance'''||OFF||ADV||FOR||NEU||GUA||DEF |
|||
|- |
|||
|align=right|'''Bonus'''||0||10||20||30||40||50 |
|||
|} |
|||
*The stance bonus is actually a part of the [[Evade]] formula but its inclusion with parry DS has been a long-standing practice. |
|||
*Truncate all values |
|||
====Off-Hand DS (with weapon)==== |
|||
Training a minimum of one rank TWC is required to activate off-hand parry DS. |
|||
<div {{prettydiv|margin-right=20%}}>Off-hand DS = [(TWC ranks + STR/4 + DEX/4 + enchant bonus/2) × stance modifier] + (5 or 15 depending on weapon)</div> |
|||
:{| {{prettytable|text-align:center;}} |
|||
|- |
|||
!align=right|'''Stance'''||OFF||ADV||FOR||NEU||GUA||DEF |
|||
|- |
|||
|align=right|'''Modifier'''||0.10||0.15||0.20||0.25||0.30||0.35 |
|||
|} |
|||
*There is +15 bonus if the off-hand weapon is either a [[main gauche]] or [[sai]]. For all other weapons the bonus is +5. |
|||
*Truncate all values |
|||
====Open Off-Hand DS==== |
|||
A character's DS with an open off-hand is calculated slightly differently than a weapon holder. Note that one rank in both brawling and TWC is required to activate open off-hand DS. |
|||
<div {{prettydiv|margin-right=20%}}>Open off-hand DS = [(TWC ranks + STR/4 + DEX/4 + enchant bonus/2) × stance modifier] + (5 or 15 depending on TWC training)</div> |
|||
:{| {{prettytable|text-align:center;}} |
|||
|- |
|||
!align=right|[[Stance]]||OFF||ADV||FOR||NEU||GUA||DEF |
|||
|- |
|||
|align=right|Modifier||0.10||0.15||0.20||0.25||0.30||0.35 |
|||
|} |
|||
*The +5 or +15 bonus at the end of the formula is determined by TWC training; a character with at least 0.5x TWC ranks per level receives the +15 bonus. |
|||
:<TT>Parry DS = (Weapon Skill+(STR/4)+(DEX/4)) × (0.20 + stance/2) + (stance × 25)</TT> |
|||
*Use the enchant bonus of [[Unarmed combat system#Equipment (UCS Gloves and Boots etc)| UAC]] hand coverings when applicable. |
|||
*Truncate all values |
|||
== Weapons and TWC == |
|||
Off-hand weapon DS is calculated by the following formula: |
|||
Weapons that require two hands to wield, such as the [[claidhmore]] and [[lance]], generally cannot even be swung with a weapon in the off-hand, let alone used in two-weapon combat. Almost all one-handed weapons can be used in the off-hand, but there are a few notable exceptions. The so-called "bastard" weapons that can be wielded one- or two-handed via the [[GRIP (verb)|{{boldmono|GRIP}}]] have various limitations or outright restrictions in two weapon combat. |
|||
{| {{prettytable}} align="center" |
|||
:<TT>Off-hand Parry DS = (TWC Skill+(STR/4)+(DEX/4)) × (0.10 + stance/4) + (5 or 15)</TT> |
|||
! Weapon !! Effect/Limitation |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[main gauche]]||Provides +10 DS when wielded in the off hand |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[sai]]||Provides +10 DS when wielded in the off hand |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[whip-blade]]||Cannot be used in TWC for lore reasons <!-- should not be used in any weapon combat --> |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[pilum]]||Cannot be used in TWC |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[spear]]||Cannot be used in TWC, even when {{mono|GRIP}}ped one-handed. |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[bastard sword]]||Can be used only in the main hand, and only when {{mono|GRIP}}ped one-handed. |
|||
|- |
|||
|[[katana]]<sup>1</sup>||Can be used only in the main hand, and only when {{mono|GRIP}}ped one-handed. |
|||
|} |
|||
:<small><sup>1</sup>A few katanas in the game were created before the actual katana weapon was coded. These "old-style" katanas were falchions (and possibly other weapon types) altered to be called a katana, and thus follow the rules of that weapon base</small> |
|||
Where stance is a number between 0.0 (in offensive) to 1.0 (in defensive) and STR and DEX refers to the bonuses given to the Strength stat and Dexterity stat. The +5 at the end of the formula is +15 instead if the user is wielding either a [[main gauche]] or a [[sai]] in the off-hand. |
|||
== |
== Resources == |
||
*http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#twoweaponcombat |
*http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#twoweaponcombat |
||
*http://www.play.net/gs4/info/combatguide.asp#factors |
*http://www.play.net/gs4/info/combatguide.asp#factors |
||
*[http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Old%20Forum%20Topics%20%5BRead%20Only%5D/Two%20Weapons%20Combat/view Two Weapons Combat Officials folder] |
|||
*http://www.nilandia.com/combat/twc.htm |
|||
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20120325032039/http://www.nilandia.com/combat/twc.htm Nilandia's guide on archive.org] |
|||
[[Category:Skills]] |
[[Category:Skills]] |
Latest revision as of 15:37, 28 February 2022
Training in Two Weapon Combat (TWC or 2WC) allows a character to swing a weapon in their off-hand.
Ranks and Training Point Costs
Type | Square | Semi | Pure | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Profession | Rogue | Warrior | Monk | Bard | Paladin | Ranger | Cleric | Empath | Savant | Sorcerer | Wizard |
Max Ranks Per Level | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | - | 1 | 1 |
Training Point Cost | 2/2 | 2/2 | 2/2 | 3/2 | 3/3 | 3/2 | 9/9 | 12/12 | - | 12/12 | 12/12 |
Pros and Cons
The biggest benefit of two weapon combat is the extra swing that the character gets. There are a few things that are different when a weapon is swung in the off-hand, such as roundtime, attack strength (AS), and defensive strength (DS).
Roundtime
Roundtime is calculated based on the base roundtime of each weapon, the weight of the off-hand weapon, and the user's strength. Swinging two weapons at once is far faster than swinging each of the weapons individually, but only fast off-hand weapons add no penalty whatsoever to swing speed. For the lowest roundtime, the weapon in the off hand should be at least as fast as the weapon in the right hand and should not be very heavy. To use an off-hand weapon without penalty, you must have the following strength bonuses:
Off-hand Weight | Minimum Strength Bonus |
---|---|
3 pounds | +5 |
4 pounds | +20 |
5 pounds | +35 |
Two-Weapon Combat
A character trained in Two Weapon Combat has the ability to attack with a weapon in each hand. These attacks happen simultaneously, and far faster than it would take to swing each weapon individually. When calculating the roundtime to swing two weapons at once, it is best to think of them as combining to make a single custom weapon base with its own base RT.
Assuming the character's off-hand weapon is at least as fast and as light as their primary weapon:
WeightPenalty = min(LeftWeight - 2 - STROffset, 3)
STROffset = trunc((STRBonus + 10)/15)
This means that most characters can use a 3-pound weapon with a base speed of 2 in their off hand as if it were not there. Characters with a 25 strength bonus can use a 4-pound weapon without penalty, and characters with significantly more strength can use further heavier weapons. Every additional second of base speed or pound of weight beyond that limit increases the base roundtime by 1 second.
This TWC base speed is used in all roundtime calculations, including the calculation of minimum weapon speed.
- See the Melee Roundtime article for an in-depth discussion of the factors that go into the calculation.
Attack Strength
The AS of a swing takes into account the character's skill with the weapon itself, and their skill in TWC. 3/5ths of one's skill in the weapon type accounts for the character's AS, while 2/5ths are the character's training in TWC itself. Also, if a character's strength bonus is higher than the character's dexterity bonus, the off-hand attack will be limited by the character's dexterity. More often than not, this comes into play when a character uses the combat maneuver, Surge of Strength.
Additionally, a character that trains in TWC twice per level has no chance of "not finding an opening for the off-hand strike" when swinging at a target up to five levels higher than themselves. Less training reduces the chances of the off-hand strike from occurring. Training in TWC 1.5 times per level reduces the level of the guaranteed strike to like-level with the swinger, and training only once per level reduces the chances to 80% when swinging at a target that is the same level as the swinger.
Defensive Strength
TWC parry DS is the sum of the primary hand DS + Off-hand DS.
Primary Hand DS
Primary (right) hand parry DS uses the standard one-hand parry DS formula. One rank in the appropriate weapon skill is required to activate parry DS. This formula is also used for open-hand brawlers.
Stance OFF ADV FOR NEU GUA DEF Modifier 0.20 0.30 0.40 0.50 0.60 0.70
Stance OFF ADV FOR NEU GUA DEF Bonus 0 10 20 30 40 50
- The stance bonus is actually a part of the Evade formula but its inclusion with parry DS has been a long-standing practice.
- Truncate all values
Off-Hand DS (with weapon)
Training a minimum of one rank TWC is required to activate off-hand parry DS.
Stance OFF ADV FOR NEU GUA DEF Modifier 0.10 0.15 0.20 0.25 0.30 0.35
- There is +15 bonus if the off-hand weapon is either a main gauche or sai. For all other weapons the bonus is +5.
- Truncate all values
Open Off-Hand DS
A character's DS with an open off-hand is calculated slightly differently than a weapon holder. Note that one rank in both brawling and TWC is required to activate open off-hand DS.
Stance OFF ADV FOR NEU GUA DEF Modifier 0.10 0.15 0.20 0.25 0.30 0.35
- The +5 or +15 bonus at the end of the formula is determined by TWC training; a character with at least 0.5x TWC ranks per level receives the +15 bonus.
- Use the enchant bonus of UAC hand coverings when applicable.
- Truncate all values
Weapons and TWC
Weapons that require two hands to wield, such as the claidhmore and lance, generally cannot even be swung with a weapon in the off-hand, let alone used in two-weapon combat. Almost all one-handed weapons can be used in the off-hand, but there are a few notable exceptions. The so-called "bastard" weapons that can be wielded one- or two-handed via the GRIP have various limitations or outright restrictions in two weapon combat.
Weapon | Effect/Limitation |
---|---|
main gauche | Provides +10 DS when wielded in the off hand |
sai | Provides +10 DS when wielded in the off hand |
whip-blade | Cannot be used in TWC for lore reasons |
pilum | Cannot be used in TWC |
spear | Cannot be used in TWC, even when GRIPped one-handed. |
bastard sword | Can be used only in the main hand, and only when GRIPped one-handed. |
katana1 | Can be used only in the main hand, and only when GRIPped one-handed. |
- 1A few katanas in the game were created before the actual katana weapon was coded. These "old-style" katanas were falchions (and possibly other weapon types) altered to be called a katana, and thus follow the rules of that weapon base