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==Recent Logs==
May I ask why your links end up with two colons at the front like <nowiki>[[::CharacterName (prime)|CharacterName]]</nowiki> in your logs? Examples: [[A Knight To Remember - 5120-12-03 - Coreful Consideration (log)]]. I am aware of the use of a single colon to exclude a file or category from populating and remaining a link, but I'm not aware of this convention with two colons. [[User:MOD-GSMOTTE|MOD-GSMOTTE]] ([[User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE|talk]]) 20:57, 26 December 2020 (CST)
Hi again, LEAFIARA. I noticed that you recently added or edited a couple logs that either have (had) been included in the [[:Category:North by Northwest|North by Northwest]] category, or have (had) "North by Northwest" included in their article name. It looks like some of them may not have been intended to be part of the North by Northwest category from their edit history. Can you clarify if they are intended to be part of this specific storyline category, if they are supposed to be part of a different storyline category, or if they are just "general" Wehnimer's Landing-related event logs that might not be specific to an ongoing storyline? The two logs I could find related to this are the following:
* [[North by Northwest (storyline)/2024-08-07 - Blames, Games, and Names (log)]]
* [[North by Northwest (storyline)/2024-07-12 - Vagrant or Vargath (log)]]
It is possible there may be more beyond these two. It looks like I had previously moved one of them to have an updated log article title based on its original inclusion in the NxNW storyline category. I suspect that these logs may need to be incorporated into the little-used category, [[:Category:Tales of Wehnimer's Landing|Tales of Wehnimer's Landing]], which was established as a sort of catch-all for Landing-area RP events centered around GM-led interactions (whether or not there is a GM presence) that don't fall under a named storyline. Updating the various town storylines to the current standards is one of my longer term projects, and I have not yet gotten to those related to the Landing. Much of what is on the [[Landing Events (KST)]] article is intended to be migrated to either the appropriate storyline or Tales of Wehnimer's Landing catch-all category once it has been brought in line with those standards. Any insight you can offer would be appreciated. If they do need to be moved/recategorized, you are welcome to take those steps or you can let me know and I can certainly do so on your behalf. Thanks again for all of your work on the wiki. [[User:HOST-GSKEBECHET|HOST-GSKEBECHET]] ([[User talk:HOST-GSKEBECHET|talk]]) 10:40, 11 September 2024 (CDT)




Hi there! The short answer is that, yes, these two should actually be under Tales of Wehnimer's Landing since they were RP events led by a GM which weren't associated with any storyline. North by Northwest ended several months ago.


As for how it happened, I had accidentally left a North by Northwest category on the older of these two logs (Vagrant or Vargath) because I had copy/pasted my formatting from an older log. (I assume that my error is why you moved it, believing that the category was there to indicate that it was connected.) By the time I created the second log (Blames, Games, and Names), I was likewise copy/pasting the URL formatting from the log that you had moved since last I looked, but I didn't catch that it had changed. After I noticed later, I deleted the North by Northwest categories from both logs, but didn't quite know what to do from there.
Hmm... I actually don't know where I picked up the habit. My best guess is that I was looking at some other GS wiki page while trying to figure out how to display different text to the end user than what the end of the linked URL is, saw that ''that'' page used double colons, assumed they were necessary, and then did it that way for years without seeing what would happen if I left them out. That's a little embarrassing, since now I see it still works without them! I'll leave that out in the future. [[User:LEAFIARA|LEAFIARA]] ([[User talk:LEAFIARA|talk]]) 01:39, 1 January 2021 (CST)


Moving and recategorizing them will resolve it!
:Please, no embarrassment necessary. I am still learning, and I make mistakes or do things in an odd way all the time! We all are always learning and growing (including me). I just wasn't sure if this was one of those things that ''I'' didn't know. Thank you for all of your hard work documenting GemStone history and sharing your time and efforts with other people. It is truly appreciated. [[User:MOD-GSMOTTE|MOD-GSMOTTE]] ([[User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE|talk]]) 01:55, 1 January 2021 (CST)
[[User:LEAFIARA|LEAFIARA]] ([[User talk:LEAFIARA|talk]]) 17:36, 11 September 2024 (CDT)
:Got it, thank you very much for the clarification! I'll take care of the moving. [[User:HOST-GSKEBECHET|HOST-GSKEBECHET]] ([[User talk:HOST-GSKEBECHET|talk]]) 08:31, 19 September 2024 (CDT)


==Recent Edits to Character Page==
Hello, LEAFAIRA. I wanted to reach out to you to an update to the [[Gswiki:Policy]] that was just made for item #4, associated with character pages. Previously, there were no circumstances where character pages (and their subpages) were allowed to be modified by anyone other than the character's player or someone to whom they had given permission. This had the unfortunate result of not allowing for circumstances where a player from our community has passed away. The policy update now makes allowances where this is permitted, but with specific parameters. Those parameters are now outlined in the Gswiki's [[Gswiki:Style guide/Character pages#Player Deaths|style guide for character pages]].


While all of your edits to [[Saraphenia (prime)|Saraphenia]]'s page were made fully in good faith, I am moving forward with the steps outlined in the updated policy for how a character page is handled when a player passes away. I am locking further edits to the character page. I am adding a new template to the top of the page, identifying that it is locked to further edits out of respect to the player who has passed away. The template includes a link to a new subpage, which has not yet been created, [[Saraphenia (prime)/Memorial]], which may be freely created or edited by you or anyone else who wish to preserve memories of her player. '''In seven days, I will revert your recent edits to [[Saraphenia (prime)|Saraphenia]]'s character page to the last version by the original author.''' This is intended to preserve the character page in the original voice intended by her player. This should give you ample time to move any edits you would like to preserve to the Memorial page.


I realize that this is a difficult time for you and Saraphenia's friends. Please let me or the wiki team know if you have any questions or concerns about this policy update. This can be done via email to gs4-wiki@play.net or via Gemstone's [https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1061330227843833926 Discord forum's wiki thread]. [[User:HOST-GSKEBECHET|HOST-GSKEBECHET]] ([[User talk:HOST-GSKEBECHET|talk]]) 09:53, 8 May 2024 (CDT)






Thank you so much. For obvious reasons, I haven't been thinking clearly by any stretch, but this is a very well thought-out solution. It gives me peace of mind about nobody else touching the main page and the subpage idea actually leaves me feeling like I have more leeway, not less, to honor my friend. Feel free to revert the main page changes I made sooner than later, as I've already copied all of the new elements from my edits to the Memorial subpage. [[User:LEAFIARA|LEAFIARA]] ([[User talk:LEAFIARA|talk]]) 14:26, 8 May 2024 (CDT)
:Thank you for letting me know. I have completed the manual revert of Saraphenia's character page to the last version prior to your edits while preserving the In memorium template. [[User:HOST-GSKEBECHET|HOST-GSKEBECHET]] ([[User talk:HOST-GSKEBECHET|talk]]) 08:44, 9 May 2024 (CDT)






May I ask why your links end up with two colons at the front like <nowiki>[[::CharacterName (prime)|CharacterName]]</nowiki> in your logs? Examples: [[A Knight To Remember - 5120-12-03 - Coreful Consideration (log)]]. I am aware of the use of a single colon to exclude a file or category from populating and remaining a link, but I'm not aware of this convention with two colons. [[User:MOD-GSMOTTE|MOD-GSMOTTE]] ([[User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE|talk]]) 20:57, 26 December 2020 (CST)


Hmm... I actually don't know where I picked up the habit. My best guess is that I was looking at some other GS wiki page while trying to figure out how to display different text to the end user than what the end of the linked URL is, saw that ''that'' page used double colons, assumed they were necessary, and then did it that way for years without seeing what would happen if I left them out. That's a little embarrassing, since now I see it still works without them! I'll leave that out in the future. [[User:LEAFIARA|LEAFIARA]] ([[User talk:LEAFIARA|talk]]) 01:39, 1 January 2021 (CST)
Here I write about Gemstone Life, The Gemstone Universe, and Gemstone Everything!


:Please, no embarrassment necessary. I am still learning, and I make mistakes or do things in an odd way all the time! We all are always learning and growing (including me). I just wasn't sure if this was one of those things that ''I'' didn't know. Thank you for all of your hard work documenting GemStone history and sharing your time and efforts with other people. It is truly appreciated. [[User:MOD-GSMOTTE|MOD-GSMOTTE]] ([[User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE|talk]]) 01:55, 1 January 2021 (CST)

=Favorite Hunting Grounds=

Some special mentions for several of my favorite hunting grounds, in honor of whichever GMs made them!

==[[::Category:The_Graveyard_creatures|Wormwood Slough]]==

'''Creatures''': [[death dirge]]s, [[greater ghoul]]s, [[greater spider]]s, [[hobgoblin]]s

'''Level range''': 3-9

'''What I like''':
* Showcases Gemstone enemy variety very early with a living humanoid, living animal, non-corporeal undead, and corporeal undead all together
* Very swarmy and an excellent place to rush to 5 or even 15 ranks of [[Multi Opponent Combat]]
* Most of the time you get to feel like you're mowing down enemy after enemy...
* ...but it's not without risk since spider webbing is very dangerous...
* ...and yet being webbed isn't necessarily instant death in the way an open roll maneuver can be

==[[::Category:Shadow_Valley_creatures|Shadow Valley]]==

'''Creatures''': [[night mare]]s, [[shadow mare]]s, [[shadow steed]]s

'''Level range''': 37-43

'''What I like''':

* An all-undead area is where clerics and paladins love to play
* Very swarmy and an excellent place to have lots of ranks in [[First Aid]] or [[Survival]] for free and easy silvers from [[::SKIN_(verb)|skinning]]
* Great [[favor]] farming spot for life without leaving a hub for roleplay
* With the wide variety of enemy abilities including [[::Attack_strength|AS]] boosts, [[::Target_defense|TD]] boosts, disappearing, dispelling, ewaves, freezing, and gas clouds, Shadow Valley hunting never feels routine or predictable...
* ...and also doesn't feel overly dangerous nor overly safe
* Unique [[realm]] for purposes of [[::Realm_flare|realm flaring]] weapons

==[[::Category:Bonespear_Tower_creatures|Bonespear Tower]]==

'''Creatures''': [[dybbuk]]s, [[eidolon]]s, [[waern]]s

'''Level range''': 48-55

'''What I like''':

* An all-undead area is where clerics and paladins love to play
* Bonespear has an unusual, interesting juxtaposition of creatures: dybbuks are incredibly harmless and weak; waerns are mostly harmless but very good at dodging and can do one very dangerous thing, disarming; eidolons are like a colossus of an enemy that's near-untouchable and they're capable of several dangerous things
* It's swarmy, which goes well with the creature variety and keeps you on your toes and changing target priorities

==[[::Category:Red_Forest_creatures|Red Forest - Derelict Village]]==

'''Creatures''': [[Ilvari pixie]]s, [[Ilvari sprite]]s

'''Level range''': 72-74

'''What I like''':

* With the wide variety of enemy abilities including warding, bolts, disappearing, their unique tricks, fake loot, [[::Major Elemental Wave (435)|major ewave]], bark shields, and dispelling, Ilvari hunting never feels routine or predictable...
* ...and also doesn't feel overly dangerous nor overly safe
* The script flips here, as professions like rangers and wizards that normally have more complex hunting take it easy with only two spells each ([[::Sun Burst (609)|Sun Burst]] and [[::Spike Thorn (616)|Spike Thorn]], [[::Elemental Wave (410)|Elemental Wave]] and [[::Earthen Fury (917)|Earthen Fury]]) while professions like clerics and empaths whose archetype builds normally have very straightforward hunting need to pull out unusual things to deal with the tricks (e.g. [[::Fire Spirit (111)|Fire Spirit]] to get rid of bark shields, [[::Censure (316)|Censure]] or [[::Sympathy (1120)|Sympathy]] (even with only one invisible enemy) or [[Symbol of Sleep]] to pull out of hiding, potentially even [[::Spirit Dispel (119)|Spirit Dispel]] if trying to uphunt enough or [[::Spiritual Abolition (230)|Spiritual Abolition]] to dispel and bypass their prepared spells)

==[[::Category:Wehntoph_creatures|Hidden Plateau]]==

'''Creatures''': [[lesser minotaur]]s, [[::minotaur magus|minotaur magi]], [[minotaur warrior]]s

'''Level range''': 74-78

'''What I like''':

Every character I take here has a very different experience of which enemies die quickly and which ones are threatening. (These aren't mutually exclusive things!) And what's key is that it's not only because of profession, but also build, as I'm guessing an empath or paladin with only 1x [[Physical Fitness]] wouldn't look on their time with minotaurs as fondly as I did with mine who both had 2x Physical Fitness. I'm sure a bolting wizard who stopped at 50 ranks of [[Wizard Base]] and had no ranks of [[Combat Maneuvers]] also wouldn't have a similar time to my [[::war mage|warmage]] who was 1x in wizard base and had four ranks of [[Feint]]!

I ''enjoy'' Shadow Valley much more than the Hidden Plateau, but with all of my characters Shadow Valley feels like basically the same thing, whereas minotaurs feel rewarding to very specific builds in different ways.

Other than that... I love how minotaur magi save each other and how warriors guard each other. Would love to see more of that interaction among enemies!

=Miscellaneous Musings=

==All or Nothing: Capped Bandits==

I usually see two ways that capped people approach hunting: either basically never going for bandit patrols or basically never going for anything ''except'' bandit patrols. It's an interesting divide!

I'm in the camp of all-bandits-all-the-time for several reasons:

* Bandits aren't out of the way. I'm not about to go live on [[Teras Isle]] or in the Elven Nations (populated, but not the hub that the West is), and even running out to the Rift or Sanctum can feel isolated with amunet communication to nearby towns cut off.
* Saving time. There's no chance I'm waiting around for 27 [[fallen crusader]]s or some other "capped" creature in the level 95-99 range to spawn, and there are a lot of those with no way to avoid those bounties.
* Social hunting. If I'm in a group hunting the Sanctum, say, or even Reim, then I'm not saying a word to anybody the whole time we're there. Bandits are a lot more relaxed and we can take the time to banter and talk and interact, which is the core of the game in my opinion. And I can even drag friends out to capped bandits whatever level they are--70, 50, 20, it doesn't matter, they're still be able to hit them.
* Free-form hunting. My favorite type of hunting is when I ''need'' to use a dozen different actions to succeed, but if I can't have that, my second favorite type is when I ''can'' use a dozen different actions and still succeed. One day of bandit hunting might see Leafiara cast [[::Fire Spirit (111)|Fire Spirit]], [[::Spirit Strike (117)|Spirit Strike]], [[::Web (118)|Web]], [[::Searing Light (135)|Searing Light]], [[::Bind (214)|Bind]], [[::Mass Interference (217)|Mass Interference]], [[::Spirit Slayer (240)|Spirit Slayer]], [[::Holy Bolt (306)|Holy Bolt]] (yes, really), [[::Fervent Reproach (312)|Fervent Reproach]], [[::Censure (316)|Censure]], [[::Divine Fury (317)|Divine Fury]], [[::Divine Wrath (335)|Divine Wrath]], and [[::Symbol of the Proselyte (340)|Symbol of the Proselyte]] (yes, I mean refreshing in the field), and on top all that also use [[Symbol of Renewal]] and attack and [[mstrike]]. I wouldn't even do half that many things in the Elemental Confluence or Sanctum--maybe in the Rift, but only barely half--because most of them would be useless. Bandits aren't as challenging as any of these areas, but at least I have the opportunity to make use of all my spells and abilities--all these things that I specifically trained to learn to do--instead of only using a couple repetitive actions.
* Either being a cleric main isn't well-suited to other capped hunting or I'm trained wrong for it. (Or I don't know what I'm doing. One of those three.) On one hand, capped hunting grounds with slower spawning bore me, which is where clerics excel. On the other hand, I don't like swarmy capped hunting grounds either as a cleric. It's one thing to enjoy a swarmy area like Shadow Valley in a level range where it's expected that ''every'' profession will be picking off enemies one by one. But in capped areas, the swarms seem designed around the idea that you can obliterate seven enemies in four seconds or two commands, probably because a lot of professions really ''can'' do that--with [[::Song of Sonic Disruption (1030)|Song of Sonic Disruption]], [[::Nature's Fury (635)|Nature's Fury]], [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]], [[::Core Tap (950)|Core Tap]], the upcoming 1650, [[berserk]]. But I can't, because Spirit Slayer is made for single-target hunting while Divine Wrath just isn't very good. It kinda kills the joy of it all.


==Empaths and Mentalism==

Years ago there was a plan, now abandoned, to have empaths learn the [[Minor Mental]] circle instead of [[Major Spiritual]]. I wouldn't want this to happen for a lot of reasons, the biggest one probably being how important [[::Manna (203)|Manna]] bread is to characters like [[Cruxophim]] and [[Maylan]].

...still, sometimes it's fun to think about anyway. For the type of hunting I enjoy, having [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]] and [[::Provoke (1235)|Provoke]] on the same profession would actually be really cool! I also think there would be a lot more room to make improvements to [[Major Spiritual]] if it only needed to be balanced for one profession, so in a roundabout way it might end up helping my cleric. It might even improve various other professions making use of scrolls and magic items.


==The Armor Paradox: [[::CHANNEL_(verb)|Channeling]] and [[::Spell_hindrance|Spell Hindrance]]==

Most clerics, empaths, and wizards pick their armor based on having no spell hindrance--respectively double leathers, double leathers, and full leathers. In my opinion, the best case I've heard for why to do this is that not having spell hindrance makes disablers more reliable, which is ultimately a better defense than heavier armor could be. (Annoyance with failed casts is a great ''personal'' reason to not have hindrance, but not a case to persuade others.) The second best case is that it lets them have [[armor support]] instead of [[armored fluidity]], since less encumbrance means a better chance at surviving maneuvers.

Meanwhile, I like heavier armor because it gives me more leeway to stay in offensive stance; I don't fear taking hits as a cleric or empath in chain mail or a wizard in leather breastplate. And I want to be in offensive because my cleric and empath channel, giving them an effective +20 CS over someone who doesn't channel at all or +15 CS over someone who channels in guarded, which to me is more than enough of a power increase to outweigh 3% or 4% of spells failing (assuming rank 5 armored fluidity).

Many people wear "weaker" armor because of ''defensive'' benefits while I'm wearing stronger ''armor'' because of ''offensive'' benefits.

Strange, isn't it?


==Various Gemstone Quirks You Might Not Know==

===[[Cobbling]] Workshops===

Unlike [[forging]] workshops, these are sanctuaries and have experience absorption like a [[node]]. You don't have to cobble away in silence and boredom--you can take a friend in and chat like it's a table!

===[[Minor Sanctuary (213)]] and [[Song of Peace (1011)]]===

Speaking of nodes, these spells turn any area into one, which is great for activities like forging or [[foraging]] that would normally cut into your leveling. You can even use them on escort bounties between experience pulses!

===[[Song of Tonis (1035)]]===

This spellsong reduces the RT for charging [[Fervent Reproach (312)]]. It can't reduce it to 0, but if your cleric hunts with a level 73 or higher bard, you can use the 4 second version of the charge in only 1 second!

Song of Tonis also reduces foraging RT and stacks with [[::Celerity_(506)|Celerity]], so if you need to forage for [[alchemy]] or simple bounties, it's a great time-saver!

===[[Symbol of the Proselyte (340)]]===

Many [[chrism]] holders, like the ones given out at [[Delirium Manor]], are holy symbols that can be used with this spell--no need to travel all the way to [[Zul Logoth]] and make the lengthy climb. As a cleric (or paladin) you can [[APPRAISE_(verb)|APPRAISE]] to identify which Arkati or spirit it is.

Some great possible uses of this spell as you pass symbols to friends include [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]], [[::Judgment (1630)|Judgment]], [[::Nature's Fury (635)|Nature's Fury]], and [[::Song of Sonic Disruption (1030)|Song of Sonic Disruption]] (Truehand effect only).

=Spell Update Wishlist=


==[[Minor Spiritual]]==

Overall a mediocre spell circle. It's doesn't have highs that come anywhere near [[Minor Elemental]] spells like [[::Elemental Targeting (425)|Elemental Targeting]] or [[::Elemental Wave (410)|Elemental Wave]], not to mention it has some very low lows. Its passive buffs are alright, but overall it's not a thrilling spell circle to me. If anything I'd love to see a ground-up redesign, but since that's unlikely, here are some quicker proposals...

===[[Dispel Invisibility (109)]]===

I'd just like if this spell actually did what its name says. It's not very good at its job!

===[[Locate Person (116)]]===

After GMs replaced [[empath]]s' old [[Cry for Help (1116)]], I'd like its effect to be folded into Locate Person as an [[::EVOKE_(verb)|EVOKE]] option--even if only for empaths, since it ''did'' feel like an appropriate mental spell and shouldn't necessarily be for the other seven professions.

===[[Spirit Strike (117)]]===

I'd double the second chance rate for clerics. Nobody can convince me that clerics are the masters of spiritual magic when mechanically empaths are either equal or better with every single spell in Minor or Major Spiritual, and here's one of many possible places to start. (Empaths can be better because of no need to split into [[::Spiritual_Lore,_Religion|Religion]] lore.)

===[[Spirit Dispel (119)]]===

Switch this with some other slot--maybe even flip this and Dispel Invisibility--since it's very tough to justify 19 mana for dispelling.


==[[Major Spiritual]]==

Overall I think this is a weird mess of a spell circle. The eight professions who can't learn Major Spiritual probably think it's fantastic because all they ever see is Bravery, Heroism, and Spirit Slayer, and they're probably using those first two ''without'' knowing the circle, but the rest of it is a mishmash of incredibly niche things. It's also strange that two of its best spells are about raising AS even though clerics and empaths aren't expected to swing weapons nor bolt. (I say this as someone whose cleric and empath both swing and bolt.)

I'd be even more interested in seeing ''this'' circle redone than even Minor Spiritual, since spells like [[Light (205)]], [[Tend Lore (206)]], [[Living Spell (208)]], and others strike me as too narrow. But, like Minor Spiritual, I know it's not likely. Here are smaller proposals...

===[[Untrammel (209)]]===

I'd like any of the following to make this spell less narrow: possible to cast while webbed, works against bandit nets, works against bandit traps.

===[[Interference (212)]] and [[Mass Interference (217)]]===

Just merge them and have Interference be EVOKEd for multiple targets.

===[[Bind (214)]]===

Add TD pushdown for native casters. Right now a wizard with 2x [[Magic Item Use]] can be better at Binding than any cleric or empath short of a far post-cap one will be--I know because I've done it--and that's just strange.

Another reason for the TD pushdown is how unfavorable Bind comes out in a comparison to [[Web (118)]]. Even though some enemies can be bound but not webbed, most enemies who can be affected by one can be affected by the other--and I think that if an enemy can be affected by both a Minor Spiritual and Major Spiritual spell, the latter should usually be preferable... which isn't true at all right now. Web is cheaper, has TD pushdown, and is equally effective.

(And even that's not mentioning that [[::Prayer of Holding (301)|Prayer of Holding]], [[::Censure (316)|Censure]], or [[::Empathy (1108)|Empathy]] are themselves often better than Web, leaving Bind in a very weird place for both its native casters.)

===[[Frenzy (216)]]===

Like how [[Song of Sonic Disruption (1030)]] can be cast at one target for only 15 mana, make this castable at a single target for 8 mana and upgrade the 16 mana version to hit multiple targets--maybe with a bit less pushdown for that version. The effect is interesting and worth keeping, but simply isn't worth 16 mana.

===[[Spirit Servant (218)]]===

Like Spirit Strike, I'd love to see this do something more for clerics. Ideally something combat-oriented, since empaths have [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]] to do better against swarms than clerics while also having more leeway to get a superior [[::Spirit Slayer (240)|Spirit Slayer]] by pushing [[::Spiritual_Lore,_Summoning|Summoning lore]] without sacrificing as much.

===[[Spiritual Abolition (230)]]===

See Frenzy. Make it hit multiple targets, even if the dispel effect is less significant, and have a cheaper single-target version with the current effect. (Obviously this would apply to [[::Elemental Disjunction (530)|Elemental Disjunction]] too.


==[[Cleric Base]]==

===[[Prayer of Holding (301)]]===

Because of a single capped hunting ground, I wish the effect of this spell looked and worked exactly like immobilization except it was impossible to shake off with a high enough warding margin. I'm perfectly happy with a narrow spell in a pure profession's circle that can only be cast against the undead, but then it should at least work against all the undead--and right now booth undead creatures in the [[::Category:Sanctum_creatures|Sanctum of Scales]] just shake it off, which is crazy to me.

===[[Smite/Bane (302)]] and [[Holy Bolt (306)]]===

I'd like if a high number of spell ranks or the right lore training could enable these spells to do the same damage against the opposite alignment. (Smite and Bane would keep the doubled mana cost.) Or if not, then for Holy Bolt at very least I'd like to see the acid effect be much faster (like the extra CS-based damage from [[::Empathic Assault (1110)|Empathic Assault]] that's almost instant) and/or based on a percentage of the enemy's max health.

===[[Bless (304)]]===

At some threshold of [[::Spiritual_Lore,_Blessings|Blessings lore]]--or any other lore, or spell ranks, etc.--I'd like if this could be cast on a flaring weapon to increase its flare rate for a number of swings. (That wouldn't make it hit the undead. It's just a reason to get all weapons blessed when people visit their local clerics.)

===[[Preservation (305)]] and [[Well of Life (308)]]===

If it were me I'd create a new open spell slot by merging these two, using CAST to preserve and CHANNEL to link or restore spirit. Lots of spell circles have redundancy, so that's not my problem with the current spells, but in cases like, say, [[::System_Repair_(1103)|System Repair]] and [[::System_Scar_Repair_(1112)|System Scar Repair]]], at least both spell slots actually do something for the caster. The current Preservation is exclusively for helping others and can't benefit the casting cleric in any way. Well of Life doesn't do that either unless you're doing something like restoring a CoL character's mana so they can send back to you, charge an item, or something like that.

===[[Benediction (307)]]===

Uncap the bonus of the self-cast only effect on melee AS to be the same as its effect on bolt AS--an increase of 36. We'd still be 19 AS behind warpaths anyway, not to mention lacking the thing that ''actually'' makes them so destructive in [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]], but at least we could compete with high-end sorcerers, who right now can easily beat out high-end clerics' AS since they have access to [[::Bravery (211)|Bravery]], [[::Heroism (215)|Heroism]], and the base +5 of Benediction while clerics can't get any of their AS from [[::Elemental Targeting (425)|Elemental Targeting]].

(To be fair, [[::Censure (316)|Censure]] drops enemy DS more than [[::Elemental Wave (410)|Elemental Wave]] or [[::Grasp of the Grave (709)|Grasp of the Grave]], but that's assuming enemies aren't immune to Censure or able to shake it off, like I just mentioned about Prayer of Holding with the Sanctum.)

===[[Neutralize Curse (309)]] and [[Remove Curse (315)]]===

Another pair of redundant spells that could stand to be merged so a new and better idea can be created.

===[[Fervent Reproach (312)]]===

I'd like if the charge time applied to X casts of Fervent Reproach. For example, just to throw a number out there... level/20. I don't see many people charging this spell unless they're using it with a bard in the group keeping up at least a 2-second [[::Song of Tonis (1035)|Song of Tonis]], so making a capped cleric's charge apply to five casts instead of one wouldn't change much. It's the 6-second version I'm mostly concerned about.

Another idea would be to make a different [[::EVOKE_(verb)|EVOKE]] version of Fervent Reproach that requires the full 6-second charge and costs extra mana, but can hit multiple enemies--with no RT reduction possible for this version.

===[[Raise Dead (318)]] and [[Miracle (350)]]===

Yes, I'm saying it: I'd merge Miracle in as a thing you can do once you're level 50 and have 50 ranks of [[Cleric Base]], but without actually being the capstone spell. When you compare how often clerics cast their 50th level spell to how often rangers, wizards, or paladins can cast their 50th level spells, it comes across as very rarely used. To be fair, empaths' [[::Regeneration (1150)|Regeneration]] isn't cast very often either compared to something like [[::Core Tap (950)|Core Tap]], but still more than Miracle.

I just think there has to be room for something much more awesome than what we have, more on par with those other professions. Honestly, I believe there's an argument to be made for both sides about whether even [[::Time Stop (550)|Time Stop]] is better than Miracle. On one hand, Miracle can fix instant deaths to things like nasty maneuvers or maneuver-based spells that Time Stop couldn't do anything about. On the other, in cases where Time Stop ''can'' save you, stopping your death from happening in the first place is arguably better than fixing it after the fact--and is being able to resurrect yourself even all that big when easy access to [[death's sting]] salve basically makes departing penalty-free? In addition, at cap many hunting grounds will dispel sanctuaries, making it unsafe to cast Miracle and be stuck in RT.

===[[Holy Receptacle (325)]]===

[[Brimstone]]s as they are now might be the coolest useless thing ever. I wish we could crack them like chrisms over sanctified weapons to give them holy fire flares. (Including runestaves.)

===[[Prayer of Communion (330)]]===

Make it an innate ability and give us something new.

===[[Symbol of the Proselyte (340)]]===

Make each charge of this spell apply to the next two casts when used by a cleric. I actually really like this spell already as it is, but that's because I'm a bandit hunter. I see so many clerics ignore or forget about 340 and I think it's a shame that any profession would do that for one of its 40th level spells--but, well, I can't blame them when the effect doesn't make much of a case for itself.

A typical capped cleric trained for full chrisms gets six casts of extra CS and a [[Truehand]] effect.

If we were empaths or rangers or paladins that would be fine, but clerics would end up using that either for a non-damaging spell ([[::Censure (316)|Censure]]) or for a single-target spell, making it very tough to justify ever casting this again out in the field because of the steep cost of 40 mana and 2 spirit. [[::Spirit Slayer (240)|Spirit Slayer]] blows this out of the water in my opinion.

In my proposal, that same cleric trained for full chrisms would get twelve boosted casts, which is a lot more formidable and ''might'' justify recasting in the field more often. Right now the dilemma is:

*Clerics in the [[Council of Light]] are reluctant to use the spirit for something other than mana.
*Clerics in the [[Order of Voln]] have all the spirit they could want because of [[Symbol of Renewal]], but don't have the mana to repeatedly cast recharge their symbol in the field unless they're willing to burn deeds on it.
*Clerics in the [[Guardians of Sunfist]]... Well, they basically don't exist from what I've seen, but if they're out there then I'm guessing they're a little better on mana but worse on spirit than the Voln clerics.

So who ''is'' Symbol of the Proselyte meant to be cast by in the field? If the answer is super-capped Voln clerics who have 3x [[Harness Power]] and 2x or more [[Spiritual Mana Control]], or CoL clerics with 13 spirit and a set of spirit regen enhancives, then to me the spell is overly narrow.

Or is it ''not'' meant to be cast in the field--or used only in very limited circumstances like hitting a grizzled creature? I'd hope that isn't true either, because either way it would again be a narrow spell.

This is why people never bother buying a holy symbol chrism holder, or they'll buy one but then forget to ever charge it.


==[[Minor Elemental]]==

Having [[Mass Elemental Defense (419)]] come only five levels after [[Elemental Defense III (414)]] is very weird to me--you might as well just have the mass version become available at level 19. Otherwise, though, I think this is a well thought out circle!

For the same reason I don't like Spirit Dispel other than for a couple of enemies in the entire game, I'd ''like'' to say [[Elemental Dispel (417)]] could be swapped with another spell slot to make it cheaper, but Minor Elemental is so tightly designed with everything in the right spot to be considerate to multiple professions that making any changes could throw off too many things.


==[[Major Elemental]]==

Coming eventually... Maybe.


==[[Wizard Base]]==

Coming eventually... Maybe.


==[[Bard Base]]==

See my thoughts on bards. I think that, for the most pure of the semis, it's much too difficult to get past enemies' warding early on in bards' lives. For the songs themselves, though, I like everything. Absolutely all of it. ...oh, except one thing:

===[[Song of Rage (1016)]]===

See my thoughts on Frenzy.


==[[Empath Base]]==

A spell circle where a lot of redundancy is made up for by the few buff spells it does have being gigantic and all-encompassing. Works for me! I wouldn't make any changes.


==[[Paladin Base]]==

I think this is a very robust and well-designed spell circle with absolutely no wasted slots. It's kinda exactly what I'd expect from the most modern non-minor spell circle! I wouldn't make any changes to it.


=Thoughts on [[Alchemy]]=

Alchemy is a great idea. For execution, though... Other than the [[::Enchanting_potion#Pre-tempering_Potions|pre-tempering potions]] and fancy new titles, is anything from alchemy worth it?

Look at a [[::Wisdom_potion#Greater_wisdom_potion|greater wisdom potion]], for example... It's +10 [[Wisdom]] for two sips of 30 minutes each. That sounds great, but you have to throw tens of millions of silvers into mastering potions and then still have to give up like 50k of materials to make one.

Compare that with [[forging]], which can improve every attack for the rest of your life forever ''and'' is less time consuming to master ''and'' only costs one or two million silver to master! Or even compare it to recharging [[::Enhancive_item|enhancives]].

The payoff to alchemy is just really lacking.

===Wishlist===
* Decrease difficulty (e.g. lighting cauldrons)
* Decrease RTs
* Make the stat-boosting potions last longer, maybe even having [[Magic Item Use]] add duration on top of the basic thirty minutes

Note: I'd call improving alchemy by far one of the lower priorities of changes I'd like to see, but I definitely won't object if some GM takes it up as a pet project!


=Thoughts on [[Bard]]s=

First the bad news: level 0 to 34 as a bard was probably the most bored I've been playing a profession. Even at level 35 I think I would have been bored for a while longer if not for my wizard supplying near-endless mana for [[::Song of Tonis (1035)|Song of Tonis]] the moment she learned it. Either that or I'd have to burn deeds on [[Symbol of Mana]]. (To be fair, that's one of the better reasons to burn deeds!)

But after bards get going they're really a blast! They have a wide, fun variety of tools like [[::Vibration Chant (1002)|Vibration Chant]], [[::Lullabye (1005)|Lullabye]], [[::Stunning Shout (1008)|Stunning Shout]], [[Feint]], and [[Trip]] or [[Hamstring]] (depending on weapon type), among other things.

Very high level pure bards can more or less spam [[::Song of Sonic Disruption (1030)|Song of Sonic Disruption]], which definitely isn't my style and won't be what I do when I get there, but I'm sure power hunters love it.

Also, I consider bards a must for any multi-accounter, and I'm not even saying that because of their group buffs--after all, some professions and builds won't even care about [[::Song of Luck (1006)|Song of Luck]] or [[::Kai's Triumph Song (1007)|Kai's Triumph Song]] and a few might not even care about Song of Tonis. But everyone cares about silvers and loot and that's where bards pay off huge because of [[::Purification Song (1004)|Purification Song]] and [[loresinging]].

===Wishlist===
Since those early levels are so rough and bards are supposed to be the purest of the semis, maybe bards could get something like empaths have with [[::Bone Shatter (1106)|Bone Shatter]] where they get TD pushdown early on. It can be crazily frustrating trying to hit with bard base against TDs that seem like they're defending against, I dunno, maybe wizards' [[::Elemental Strike (415)|Elemental Strike]]. Either that or I just didn't know what I was doing. Totally possible!


=Thoughts on [[Cobbling]]=

One of my favorite ideas in Gemstone and I absolutely love GM Elidi's dedication to it! Making custom shoes for everyone you know, with your own hallmark and design, is just one of the greatest things.

===Wishlist===
* A new [[cobbling punch]] that lets me [[::WIGGLE_(verb)|wiggle my toes]] while wearing sandals and everyone else will see! [Note: apparently, as Airisu has told Leafiara in-game, sandals will be getting some love this year at [[::Category:Ebon_Gate_Festival|Caligos Isle]]!
* A way to make cobbled shoes [[::Unarmed_combat_system|UAC]] compatible, possibly even with a bonus to MM
* Decrease RTs


=Thoughts on [[Empath]]s=

Easily the profession I'd recommend soonest to anyone, empaths are ''masters'' of all trades and ''jacks'' of none.

They're amazing at [[warding]], amazing at [[::Bolt_spell|bolting]], amazing at swinging, amazing at utility, amazing at [[::SKIN_(verb)|skinning]], amazing at [[foraging]], amazing at leveling (because they don't even ''need'' to leave town), amazing against creatures one on one, amazing against swarms with [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]], amazing at rescuing, amazing in [[Guardians of Sunfist]], amazing in the [[Order of Voln]], amazing in the [[Council of Light]]...

They're amazing at being someone's only account since they never need to track down healing. They're amazing at multi-accounting since other than maybe [[wizard]] spells there's nothing more valuable to more professions than healing on demand.

And despite jokes about fat empaths, they're even amazing at not being encumbered since they don't have to carry 15+ pounds of herbs.

===Wishlist===
Nothing. I'd never intentionally suggest nerfs for anyone and I also can't suggest buffs to a profession I already think is the best in the game. I mean, I'm so enamored with empaths that whenever I think about what I'd like developed for clerics, I usually have to ignore the [[Major Spiritual]] circle because anything in it would also have to be balanced around empaths and it's too much of a hurdle for me to have to consider.


=Thoughts on [[Forging]]=

Other than maybe [[fletching]], which I've never tried, this is the least tedious artisan skill and has the biggest payoff. Perfect forged weapons are awesome for upgrading with certificates from the [[::Duskruin_Arena|Duskruin]] high end scrip shop. Also, even though it might seem like such a small thing, having your own crafting mark on your own weapon is hugely important to many characters RP-wise!

===Wishlist===
Something like a cobbling punch except it adds scripts to toothpicks.


=Thoughts on [[Paladin]]s=

Paladins are the overkill profession that's great fun for quite a while, and maybe even forever if your main enjoyment is just feeling like a powerhouse. In everything they do, paladins either have sky high numbers or at least ''look'' like they have sky high numbers--sure, paladin [[::casting strength|CS]] isn't exactly sorcerer CS, but it can sure feel like it when you compare enemy TDs against paladin base to their TDs against sorcerer base!

Still, eventually they got dull to me when it became apparent that [[::Aura of the Arkati (1614)|Aura of the Arkati]] followed by attacks or [[::MSTRIKE_(verb)|mstrikes]] is basically all they need to do. Or maybe that's a consequence of my paladin and empath being a hunting duo throughout their lives, as my warpath did a wider variety of things in almost every level range, which is more fun to me.

They're also a pretty weirdly non-social profession. They do have group spells, sure, but for sharing buffs without joining the hunt, they only have a single not-that-great spell in [[::Mantle of Faith (1601)|Mantle of Faith]]. I personally love [[armored fluidity]] too since I have a quartet of mutant pures wearing chain mail or leather breastplate, plus a Tonis bard who doesn't like losing mana, but most people prefer [[armor support]] by far.

Paladins do have [[::Divine Word (1640)|Divine Word]], but that's like [[::Symbol of the Proselyte (340)|Symbol of the Proselyte]] where I only ever see it given out if the paladin or cleric takes the initiative to offer--nobody ever seems to ask for it.

===Wishlist===

Mostly I just wish paladins could unlock a superpowered version of [[::Divine Strike (1615)|Divine Strike]] with lores or a really high number of ranks in paladin base. Right now it's silly to me that I'm playing a profession that can take 202 spell ranks and I have no desire to go past 70 or at absolute most 90 (''if'' I decide I still want [[::Wall of Force (140)|Wall of Force]] after getting 202 [[Dodging]]).

Training more spells means giving up [[redux]], which is a very big part of being a paladin to me, so I'd need a huge payoff. But, as far as I know, a 162/40 paladin won't come even close to the magical power of 125/77 bards. And it's not like bards even sacrifice physical ability to get that magical power since they're perfectly on par with paladins thanks to Song of Tonis. Bards do admittedly have worse TD and DS.

Still, to be honest, in a way paladins don't even feel like semis to me. Yes, they have to cast Aura of the Arkati or [[::Judgment (1630)|Judgment]] as setup spells, but many rogues cast [[::Elemental Wave (410)|Elemental Wave]] and nobody says ''they'' feel like semis.

Despite people who hear about me asking for buffs to war clerics and say I should have made a paladin (not knowing I ''have'' a paladin), I do think my cleric is slightly better at hunting with a weapon than my paladin is at hunting with magic. (It's not saying much!) And it's more enjoyable to me to be able to hunt and switch between the two than go with one or the other, so for a cleric I ask for buffs to melee and for a paladin I ask for buffs to magic.

(Weirdly enough, everyone who's ever heard me talking about war clerics and wanted to dispute it has ''always'' brought up paladins--no one's ever said I should have made an empath, wizard, bard, or ranger. If they did, I don't think I'd have any argument to push back with except an RP-based one.)


=Thoughts on [[::War_mage|Warmages]]=

Warmages are a lot like bards that get rolling at level 6 with [[::Celerity (506)|Celerity]] instead of level 35+, and of all my characters, this is the one I most enjoyed from 0 to cap. Clerics have a great run from 11-55 and empaths come into their own once they have enough mana to cast [[::Empathic Link (1117)|Empathic Link]] regularly, but for a profession that was exciting top to bottom, this has been it for me!

[[::Elemental Wave (410)|Elemental Wave]], [[::Tremors (909)|Tremors]], [[::Call Wind (912)|Call Wind]], [[::Major Elemental Wave (435)|Major Elemental Wave]], and [[Feint]] are all fun setups. For the low cost of 0/3 MTPs per level and 10,000 [[bloodscrip]], I also made heavy use of a 20x/day [[::Bind (214)|Bind]] item from Duskruin, which with the way [[Magic Item Use]] calculates CS was ''better'' than what a cleric or empath with 3x spells would have been casting Bind with.

After any of these setups, simple 1 second attacks or [[::Earthen Fury (917)|Earthen Fury]] demolish enemies while basically ignoring the RNG because your sheer number of attacks turns probability in your favor. I never ran into much of anything I couldn't handle, as even things like [[::Category:Foggy_Valley_creatures|shan]] that were major annoyances for all of my other characters got steamrolled by my wizard.

The only thing even ''kinda'' troublesome about playing a warmage, and it really isn't, is low AS and that's 100% fixable. In full disclosure, I did have my paladin and cleric give my wizard [[::Zealot (1617)|Zealot]] and full-fledged [[::Benediction (307)|Benediction]] for +51 AS (actually 56, but she's an [[aelotoi]] with -5 [[Strength]] bonus), but anyone could basically do the same without multi-accounting. [[::Bravery (211)|Bravery]] is available all the time from pure potions, [[::Heroism (215)|Heroism]] isn't difficult to get access to because of Duskruin or Ebon Gate, and clerics can put the base benefits of Benediction into orbs. That's 45 AS, and my wizard also was only using a 4x weapon until around level 83 when she finished her 7x maul.

===Wishlist===

In combat I'm perfectly happy with my warmage and there's nothing more I could ask for.

For enchanting, I wish the weekly mana pool cap was the full 35,000. Yes, I'm sure there would be super capped wizards who would really push [[::Elemental_Lore,_Water|Water lore]] and rack up 95% temper time reduction every week (plus a little extra). I'd be one of them eventually! But would that actually be a bad thing? And I mean that even from Simutronics' perspective--wouldn't it encourage buying more fancy flares from [[::Bloodriven_Village|Duskruin]] or having more accounts or characters to enchant more gear? Not to mention the time and money put in to have those super capped wizards in the first place?

It's an open question.

=Coming Later=

Thoughts on [[cleric]]s, pay events, post-cap, [[profession]] diversification, [[::society|societies]], maybe more!

Latest revision as of 07:31, 19 September 2024

Recent Logs

Hi again, LEAFIARA. I noticed that you recently added or edited a couple logs that either have (had) been included in the North by Northwest category, or have (had) "North by Northwest" included in their article name. It looks like some of them may not have been intended to be part of the North by Northwest category from their edit history. Can you clarify if they are intended to be part of this specific storyline category, if they are supposed to be part of a different storyline category, or if they are just "general" Wehnimer's Landing-related event logs that might not be specific to an ongoing storyline? The two logs I could find related to this are the following:

It is possible there may be more beyond these two. It looks like I had previously moved one of them to have an updated log article title based on its original inclusion in the NxNW storyline category. I suspect that these logs may need to be incorporated into the little-used category, Tales of Wehnimer's Landing, which was established as a sort of catch-all for Landing-area RP events centered around GM-led interactions (whether or not there is a GM presence) that don't fall under a named storyline. Updating the various town storylines to the current standards is one of my longer term projects, and I have not yet gotten to those related to the Landing. Much of what is on the Landing Events (KST) article is intended to be migrated to either the appropriate storyline or Tales of Wehnimer's Landing catch-all category once it has been brought in line with those standards. Any insight you can offer would be appreciated. If they do need to be moved/recategorized, you are welcome to take those steps or you can let me know and I can certainly do so on your behalf. Thanks again for all of your work on the wiki. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 10:40, 11 September 2024 (CDT)


Hi there! The short answer is that, yes, these two should actually be under Tales of Wehnimer's Landing since they were RP events led by a GM which weren't associated with any storyline. North by Northwest ended several months ago.

As for how it happened, I had accidentally left a North by Northwest category on the older of these two logs (Vagrant or Vargath) because I had copy/pasted my formatting from an older log. (I assume that my error is why you moved it, believing that the category was there to indicate that it was connected.) By the time I created the second log (Blames, Games, and Names), I was likewise copy/pasting the URL formatting from the log that you had moved since last I looked, but I didn't catch that it had changed. After I noticed later, I deleted the North by Northwest categories from both logs, but didn't quite know what to do from there.

Moving and recategorizing them will resolve it! LEAFIARA (talk) 17:36, 11 September 2024 (CDT)

Got it, thank you very much for the clarification! I'll take care of the moving. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:31, 19 September 2024 (CDT)

Recent Edits to Character Page

Hello, LEAFAIRA. I wanted to reach out to you to an update to the Gswiki:Policy that was just made for item #4, associated with character pages. Previously, there were no circumstances where character pages (and their subpages) were allowed to be modified by anyone other than the character's player or someone to whom they had given permission. This had the unfortunate result of not allowing for circumstances where a player from our community has passed away. The policy update now makes allowances where this is permitted, but with specific parameters. Those parameters are now outlined in the Gswiki's style guide for character pages.

While all of your edits to Saraphenia's page were made fully in good faith, I am moving forward with the steps outlined in the updated policy for how a character page is handled when a player passes away. I am locking further edits to the character page. I am adding a new template to the top of the page, identifying that it is locked to further edits out of respect to the player who has passed away. The template includes a link to a new subpage, which has not yet been created, Saraphenia (prime)/Memorial, which may be freely created or edited by you or anyone else who wish to preserve memories of her player. In seven days, I will revert your recent edits to Saraphenia's character page to the last version by the original author. This is intended to preserve the character page in the original voice intended by her player. This should give you ample time to move any edits you would like to preserve to the Memorial page.

I realize that this is a difficult time for you and Saraphenia's friends. Please let me or the wiki team know if you have any questions or concerns about this policy update. This can be done via email to gs4-wiki@play.net or via Gemstone's Discord forum's wiki thread. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 09:53, 8 May 2024 (CDT)


Thank you so much. For obvious reasons, I haven't been thinking clearly by any stretch, but this is a very well thought-out solution. It gives me peace of mind about nobody else touching the main page and the subpage idea actually leaves me feeling like I have more leeway, not less, to honor my friend. Feel free to revert the main page changes I made sooner than later, as I've already copied all of the new elements from my edits to the Memorial subpage. LEAFIARA (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2024 (CDT)

Thank you for letting me know. I have completed the manual revert of Saraphenia's character page to the last version prior to your edits while preserving the In memorium template. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:44, 9 May 2024 (CDT)


May I ask why your links end up with two colons at the front like [[::CharacterName (prime)|CharacterName]] in your logs? Examples: A Knight To Remember - 5120-12-03 - Coreful Consideration (log). I am aware of the use of a single colon to exclude a file or category from populating and remaining a link, but I'm not aware of this convention with two colons. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:57, 26 December 2020 (CST)

Hmm... I actually don't know where I picked up the habit. My best guess is that I was looking at some other GS wiki page while trying to figure out how to display different text to the end user than what the end of the linked URL is, saw that that page used double colons, assumed they were necessary, and then did it that way for years without seeing what would happen if I left them out. That's a little embarrassing, since now I see it still works without them! I'll leave that out in the future. LEAFIARA (talk) 01:39, 1 January 2021 (CST)

Please, no embarrassment necessary. I am still learning, and I make mistakes or do things in an odd way all the time! We all are always learning and growing (including me). I just wasn't sure if this was one of those things that I didn't know. Thank you for all of your hard work documenting GemStone history and sharing your time and efforts with other people. It is truly appreciated. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 01:55, 1 January 2021 (CST)
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