Talk:Loresinging

Flares Messaging

Today I got this from loresinging:
has been infused with a dark substance.
I came here and did not find that message by doing a "find" search.

What I did find on this gswiki page was:
has been infused with the power of a dark substance.
(void/vacuum flares)

My question: Are these two messages actually for the same thing? This was pretty confusing because I would have expected the messaging to be identical if it was for the same flare type. Can we make this clearer somehow, if there are potentially two different messages that can be gotten for the same flare, perhaps list both messages?

Thanks. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 13:45, 4 November 2019 (CST)

I was actually JUST looking at flaring items on the playershops site and went back to look more closely at the results. Most items listed there have "with the power", though there are a scattering of them that do not include those words. Nothing I thought to look at (flare type, natural enchant of metal vrs further enchanted, added flares vrs born with flares) seemed to correlate with the difference. While looking, I also noticed that some elemental flares are "<element> substance" and others are "<element> elemental". Not sure what causes that difference either. OM1E5GA (talk) 15:50, 4 November 2019 (CST)

Trap Difficulty

Anyone know if there is a page like Lock difficulty somewhere for Trap difficulty? I would like to add a link to the article if one can be found. Thanks -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 08:59, 11 November 2019 (CST)

Song Blurs

Anyone notice a pattern for the following message? "The <item>'s song blurs, and you are unable to make sense of any of it."

I ask because Nytengale has gotten this a handful of times. She rarely misses anything except high level spell names, and when she misses a spell name, the messaging is usually something about "esoteric murmurs" or somesuch. The "song blurs" message is very difficult to figure, and seems to occur in verse 4 of a loresong. I would like to pin down its meaning and make sure it is mentioned in the main article. Any help will be most appreciated. I'll give an example here:

an enruned amber necklace

loresong verse 1:
This is a small item, under a pound.  In your best estimation, it's worth about 1,400 silvers.

loresong verse 2:
You sense a faint aura of magic surrounding the necklace.  From the pitch of the vibration you determine that the purpose of the necklace is to cast a spell or perform some magical purpose.

loresong verse 3:
From the rapid vibrations of the amber necklace, you determine it has no spell within it now, but could be imbedded with one, in the proper hands.  You estimate that it can contain an average amount of mana.

loresong verse 4:
The necklace's song blurs, and you are unable to make sense of any of it.
You sense that the amber necklace will disintegrate after its last magical charge has been expended.
Its loresong has been temporarily unlocked by you for 23 hours and 59 minutes.

>prepare 405
>cast my necklace
You sense that this is a magical item.  There seems to be no spells or charges but the flows of essence are strangely attracted to it.  You estimate that it can contain an average amount of mana.
You detect that an enruned amber necklace can be recharged to its original capacity by a merchant.

>inspect my necklace
You carefully inspect your amber necklace.
You determine that you could wear the necklace around your neck.  The necklace appears to serve some purpose.

>analyze my necklace
You analyze your amber necklace and sense that the item is free from merchant alteration restrictions.
You get no sense of whether or not the necklace may be further lightened.

>look at my necklace
You see nothing unusual.
>l on my necklace
There is nothing on the necklace.
>l in my neckl
There is nothing in the necklace.
>l under my neckl
There is nothing under the necklace.
>l behind my necklace
There is nothing behind the necklace.

>put ring on my necklace
You can't seem to find a way to put an intricate gold ring on an enruned amber necklace.
>put ring in my necklace
You can't seem to find a way to put an intricate gold ring in an enruned amber necklace.

I also used ;zesttest and ;testme scripts to check for zests while both wearing and holding the necklace, and there was nothing noteworthy to report.

Thanks. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 02:52, 29 December 2019 (CST)

Avignon, a level 70 bard, sung to the above enruned amber necklace and got the same result for verse 4 ("song blurs"). He was not sure, but speculated that perhaps it is just the normal message for a blank imbeddable (since there is no spell in it, the "song blurs" rather than giving a spell name, etc). I will continue to test blank imbeddables to be sure I'm getting this message every time, just to be absolutely sure. If any other older bard is interested in testing this same necklace, let me know in the game, but I am thinking Avignon has a good point and it is probably the standard messaging for a blank imbed (after all, 405 shows a kind of "strange" message for blank imbed, so loresong may too). (Thanks Avignon!) -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 09:45, 29 December 2019 (CST)

Tonight I got the same "song blurs" message for this item, an engraved golden topaz medallion. Results of inspection/loresong/etc: Under 1Lb, 1200 silvers, merchant rechargeable blank imbeddable, avg mana, persists, neck worn, alterable. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 01:21, 3 March 2020 (CST)

Note: Forgot to mention, for the medallion, its loresong was temporarily unlocked. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 01:24, 3 March 2020 (CST)

Multiple Enhancements (both permanent and temporary)

"As your song penetrates the brigandine armor, you determine that it is temporarily and moderately resistant (16%) to impact attacks and moderately resistant (16%) to natural attacks." -- in this situation the impact resistance is temporary and the natural resistance is permanent

WINTERDAWN (talk) 15:37, 4 March 2020 (CST)

That was very helpful to me, WINTERDAWN, as I had not seen a case where there was a temporary and permanent in the same item. I have been trying hard to understand resistance messaging to add more details/examples to the main article for a couple of months, but so far I have learned only a little based on my loresinging, forum posts, and playershop listings. I will list it here in case it is helpful:

Any armor/shield resistance/vulnerability seems to receive the following messaging from a loresong's 4th verse. It seems to always begin with "As your song penetrates"... and that particular introductory phrase seems to accompany no other loresong results besides armor/shield resistance/vulnerability:

As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is ["temporarily and"] [amount] ["resistant"/"vulnerable"] [(percentage)] to [type] attacks.

• [armor/shield] - the base description of the item (seems to be two to three words)

• ["temporarily and"] - if the resistance is temporary, this appears, otherwise it is omitted

• [amount] - possibilities are: slightly, moderately, very, incredibly, and there may be others, but not every resistance will list an amount (i.e. it can be simply "resistant to frigid attacks")

• ["resistant"/"vulnerable"] - one or the other will be shown, it is either/or

• [(percentage)] - will be shown in parentheses like: "moderately resistant (18%) to" if it is shown, but in many historic examples a percentage was not shown, maybe the percentage is not always shown, or maybe is a newer feature of loresongs?

• [type] - possibilities are: corrosive, crushing, fiery, frigid, impact, natural, puncturing, slashing, and there may be others

I hope this is helpful. Two questions for which I hope to find clarification:

- Does anyone else know other "types" or "amounts" than I listed above?

- Can anyone clarify "where these types come from"? I know some things are ranger resistance (like the "natural" type of resistance), but what else out there can result in the types listed above?:

When we eventually add all this stuff to the main article, I am hoping we can provide an example of the result messages that somehow incorporate all the above "types" and "amounts" so that bards or others attempting to find the info can easily search and find it, such as:

Just some examples of the resistance/vulnerability messaging for loresong verse 4:
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is resistant to puncturing attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is moderately resistant (18%) to puncturing attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is incredibly resistant to slashing attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is slightly resistant to crushing attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is very vulnerable to impact attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is moderately vulnerable to frigid attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is incredibly vulnerable to fiery attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is slightly vulnerable to corrosive attacks.
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is very vulnerable to natural attacks.

I have seen messaging for up to three resistances/vulnerabilities in one item, and it was listed as such:
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is slightly resistant to slashing attacks, very vulnerable to puncturing attacks, and very resistant to fiery attacks.

And WINTERDAWN's most helpful example of both a temporary and permanent resistance in the same item:
As your song penetrates the [armor/shield], you determine that it is temporarily and moderately resistant (16%) to impact attacks and moderately resistant (16%) to natural attacks.

That is all I know, and some of it is really not "known" it is just me noticing patterns. But it's hopefully a start. Thank you very much in advance. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 15:33, 4 April 2020 (CDT)

Example to Help Determine if Something has Temp Padding or Temp Resistance

You sense a faint aura of magic surrounding the leather.  From the pitch of the vibration you determine that the purpose of the leather is as some type of defensive garment.  It also appears to have a temporary modification of some kind.

It has a bonus of +5 from a normal leather, and the way it vibrates in tune with your voice tells you that it is soft leather armor.  It also has some type of special ability, but you can't tell what yet.    The double leather seems to have some sort of unusual protection against damage.

The harmonics generated tell you that the leather serves to protect from additional damage.
The leather resonates with your voice, revealing some details of its temporary enhancement:
    The leather's enhancement will degrade when the wearer is struck in combat.
    It should be able to withstand an incredible amount of uses before its enhancement has completely degraded away.
    When its enhancement has degraded away, the item will simply return to normal.

As your song penetrates the double leather, you determine that it is temporarily and moderately resistant (11%) to impact attacks.

It is difficult to tell from a glance, but this armor has PERMANENT damage padding. The clues are...

"The harmonics generated tell you that the leather serves to protect from additional damage." -- temporary padding will say TEMPORARILY in this message (IE: "The harmonics generated tell you that the leather serves to temporarily protect from additional damage.")

The second clue is the message about what will happen when the charges run out:

TEMP DAMAGE PADDING: When its enhancement has degraded away, the item will lose its ability to grant greater protection.

TEMP CRIT PADDING: When its enhancement has degraded away, the item will lose its ability to grant greater protection.

TEMP RESISTANCE: When its enhancement has degraded away, the item will simply return to normal.

Thus, the messaging about charges, placed between the message about the padding and resistance, is actually talking about the resistance. WINTERDAWN (talk) 13:07, 13 August 2020 (CDT)

WINTERDAWN, what you have said here, is exactly what I would have expected based on my testing, but I had not yet tested enough to know for sure if I was correct. I'm really happy that you posted this research of yours so that all of us can benefit from it, and the article itself can improve over time. Many Thanks. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 08:46, 9 December 2020 (CST)

Roundtime

KRAKII, you entered a series of roundtimes by item type and song style however they do not paint an accurate picture of the roundtime calculations for loresinging and I don't believe it should be listed on the loresinging page until more research has been completed. For normal items, the base RT is 5 seconds and max is 15; it used to be 5 and 60 but was reduced at some point. There are calculations for word volume and character length. While it is true that a progressive verse will typically yield longer RTs due to there being more words, it is not absolute. There are special custom loresongs that can cause greater RT but it has nothing to do with weapon type, such as mace versus dagger versus an X/day magic item or a plain imbeddable. Once more concrete evidence of how the calculation is determined, we can add them in to the main page. For now, it should remain generic because there isn't enough proof for exactly how the calculation works. As such, I replaced what you added with the following and placed it in the Mechanics section:

Roundtime for each verse of loresinging can vary from 5 seconds to 15 seconds for typical items.  The roundtime is determined on a verse-by-verse basis.  A couplet method, using two lines, will generally produce shorter roundtimes than the progressive method (where the singer repeats previous lines and adds a new one at the end for eachsubsequent verse).  Custom loresongs may have their own roundtimes which are higher than normal items.  Refer to [[Talk:Loresinging]|this page] for research on how the number of words used and word length may contribute.

Also, here are a variety of data points to explain how it can vary beyond what you have suggested. I used a level 10 bard and a capped bard for the longer scenarios, repeating verses on each to verify level was not a factor. I repeated some of these tests using items ranging from a dagger, a spear, a magic imbeddable, etc. This isn't perfect and I haven't added in all the specifics (each verse is 2 lines unless stated) but you should be able to get the gist that there are other layers of complexity at play:

* 8 words = 5 RT
* 8 words, 5 greater than 3 letters = 5 RT
* 8 words, 5 greater than 3 letters = 5 RT
* 9 words, 3 greater than 3 letters = 5 RT
* 9 words, 7 greater than 3 letters = 5 RT
* 9 words, 5 greater than 3 letters = 6 RT
* 10 words, 3 greater than 3 letters = 5 RT
* 10 words, 5 greater than 3 characters = 5 RT
* 10 words, 7 greater than 3 characters = 5 RT
* 10 words, 6 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 11 words, 3 of greater than 3 characters; note last word of second sentence being 4 characters long = 5 RT
* 11 words, 5 of greater than 3 characters; note last word of second sentence being 3 characters long = 5 RT
* 11 words, 5 of greater than 3 characters; note last word of second sentence being 25 characters long = 7 RT
* 12 words, 4 greater than 3 characters = 5 RT
* 12 words, 6 greater than 3 characters = 5 RT
* 12 words, 8 greater than 3 characters; note last word of both sentences being 4 characters long = 5 RT
* 12 words, 8 greater than 3 characters; note last word of both sentences being 5 characters long = 6 RT
* 12 words, 9 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 12 words, 10 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 12 words, 11 greater than 3 characters = 8 RT
* 13 words, 3 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 13 words, 9 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 13 words, 11 greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 14 words, 7 of greater than 3 characters = 7 RT
* 13 words = 6 RT
* 13 words, 7 of greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 13 words, 9 of greater than 3 characters = 6 RT
* 14 words, 9 of greater than 3 characters = 7 RT
* 15 words = 7 RT
* 16 words = 8 RT
* 17 words = 8 RT
* 18 words = 9 RT
* 20 words = 9 RT
* 20 words, 6 greater than 3 characters = 7 RT
* 20 words, 8 greater than 3 characters = 8 RT
* 20 words, 9 greater than 3 characters = 9 RT
* 20 words, 10 greater than 3 characters = 9 RT
* 20 words, 13 greater than 3 characters = 10 RT
* 21 words = 10 RT
* 25 words = 11 RT
* 25 words, 13 greater than 3 characters = 11 RT
* 26 words, 3 lines. 15 of greater than 3 characters = 11 RT
* 27 words, 3 lines. 16 of greater than 3 characters = 12 RT
* 55 words, 2 lines. 24 of greater than 3 characters = 15 RT
* 82 words, 3 lines. 38 of greater than 3 characters = 15 RT
* 120 words, 4 lines. 38 of greater than 3 characters = 15 seconds
* 150 words, 4 lines. 24 of greater than 3 characters  = 15 seconds

NAAMIT (talk) 09:46, 2 August 2021 (CDT)

I absolutely like the paragraph that you re-wrote, and agree that its location in the 'mechanics' sub-section is better.

Naamit, that is just crazy precise inspection of things; my hat's off to that! One question on the lines/word count/word size that you tested: were you using actual words or nonsense characters? I recall many years ago someone (Soulpieced? Faegil?) posted a 'test verse' where the only thing in it was the "sword" that he was testing; everything else was 'yada'.

(The five-line/four-verse progression that I used was "blankety falchion blank blank;blank blankety blank blankety blank blank; blank blankety blank; blankety blank blank;blank blankety river of filth" [as the old joke goes].) KRAKII (talk) 07:55, 3 August 2021 (CDT)

KRAKII - I'll freely admit some were garbage and some were not :) -- NAAMIT (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2021 (CDT)

---