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2020 CMAN & SML Update

Category: Combat, Magic, and Character Mechanics
Topic: Magic
Message #: 573
Author: GS4-NAIJIN
Date: 12/30/2020
Subject: CML & SMR Updates

SMRv2/CML Updates

The CML roll system is one that many players have expressed a dislike for. Even with maxed skill/stat training, it’s very difficult to defend against without training in the maneuver being used. This leads to players training primarily for defensive purposes, and not being able to utilize the rest of the maneuvers offensively for diversity or flavor.

The conversion to SMRv2 will increase baseline defense against CML across the board, and will still provide an opportunity to train in certain skills for increased defense should a player choose to. Our goal here is to reduce the necessity to train in skills purely for defense and open up other maneuvers to players.

In order to facilitate this change, some changes have been made to the SMRv2 formula itself.

General SMRv2 changes

Racial maneuver bonuses have been changed to be a bonus to dodge ranks instead of a flat percentage. This change applies to maneuvers that take dodge into account, which is currently all of them.

  • Human: 0
  • Giant : 0
  • Half-Elf : 3% => 30 ranks
  • Sylvankind : 3% => 30 ranks
  • Dark Elf : 3% => 30 ranks
  • Elf : 6% => 60 ranks
  • Dwarf : 0
  • Halfling : 6% => 60 ranks
  • Forest Gnome : 6% => 60 ranks
  • Burghal Gnome : 8% => 80 ranks
  • Half-Krolvin : 0
  • Erithian : 3% => 30 ranks
  • Aelotoi : 3% => 30 ranks

The benefit from being in higher stances has been halved. This means that being in a guarded stance is now the same as being in forward stance prior to the conversion.

  • The amount of time a pure spends in guarded was benefiting them more than intended. This change allows for stancing to provide a defensive boost on demand, but will reduce the persistent benefit casters receive to what should be one of their weaknesses.

SMRv2 attacks made from hiding now pushdown target stance similar to using the AMBUSH verb.

Force on Force has been added to SMRv2 rolls. This applies the same as it does to other systems.

Players can now better defend against magical SMRv2 attacks, similar to training ranks in the CML system.

  • Knowing the spell, regardless of ability to cast: +20% (Rank 5).
  • Can learn the spell, but hasn’t yet: +8% (Rank 3).
  • Can learn from the same sphere of magic, but not the same circle: +2% (Rank 1).
  • No influence in the spell’s sphere: +0% (No ranks).

Combat Mobility will now trigger for SMRv2 rolls.

CML Specific Changes

CML rolls have been replaced with SMRv2.

Training in a skill grants up to a 25% offensive and defensive bonus against like level creatures. The bonus has been changed from flat scaling, and now provides more benefit the higher in rank you are. The total bonus granted against like level targets is as follows:

  • Rank 1: +2%
  • Rank 2: +4%
  • Rank 3: +8%
  • Rank 4: +12%
  • Rank 5: +20%
  • Guild Master: +25%

Weapon Specialization and Weapon Bonding still apply a 2% / rank bonus.

Shield Focus will still apply a 2% / rank bonus.

Cunning Defense has been updated to provide dodge ranks for the purposes of SMRv2 defense. This applies to CML SMRv2 rolls, and maxes out at +30 dodge ranks.

  • Rank 1: +2
  • Rank 2: +4
  • Rank 3: +6
  • Rank 4: +8
  • Rank 5: +10

SMRv2 offensive power is based on the relevant skill training per character level.

  • 1x in a skill is considered baseline. Diminishing returns apply for training over 1x, with 2x training being 15% more effective than 1x training.
  • CMAN skill is used as a primary skill for every maneuver. Secondary skills may be averaged in, to find the total skill value.

All racial size modifiers have been moved to post-roll calculations and will modify the final roll, rather than the connection roll. This is similar to how channeling affects the endroll of warding spells.

  • Gnomes and halflings have had their bonuses changed to line up with their size. Burghal gnomes are the smallest, followed by halflings, and then forest gnomes.

Racial size modifiers are now:

  • Giantman/Half-Krolvin: +10, no change.
  • Dwarf/Human: +5, no change.
  • Half-Elf/Sylvankind/Dark Elf/Erithian: 0, no change.
  • Elf/Aelotoi: -5, no change.
  • Burghal Gnome: -15 to -20.
  • Forest Gnome: -15 to -10.
  • Halfling: -20 to -15.

Added backend support to handle custom messaging.

Injuries are now applied like all other SMRv2 rolls. Only rank 2 and 3 wounds will cause penalties to the attacker.

All maneuvers have had stance reviewed for both offensive and defensive purposes. This information has been added to the HELP output.

Shields now provide a defensive bonus to many maneuvers. This information has been added to the HELP output.

Shield size modifiers that apply to maneuvers have been added to HELP output.

Setups that inflict critical damage have had their critical rank normalized based on the endroll and power level of the maneuver.

  • A common complaint was being unable to determine the effect of one maneuver over another that differed primarily in power level (e.g., shield bash vs shield charge). This should help reduce the variance of those types of maneuvers.
  • Maneuvers of the same power level should result in similar criticals, however, every maneuver has the freedom to make adjustments as necessary.
  • Note: this is coded, but maneuvers will need a review individually to determine if they should be updated.

- Naijin

Physical Fitness

Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Pinefar Hunting Areas
Message #: 4543
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 11/23/2009 12:44:05 AM
Subject: Re: Crawlers... still

>Expensive for just one rank of overtraining there, and for rather less effect than PF, which I don't think has much benefit either, but at least more than that.

Physical Fitness is the primary skill for defense against standard creature maneuvers.


CM and Perception

Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Pinefar Hunting Areas
Message #: 4548
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 11/23/2009 1:13:21 AM
Subject: Re: Crawlers... still

>perception and CM are also things that factor into it. Is one of those more important than the other, or do they also factor equally? And are there other skills that factor in?

Physical Fitness > Combat Maneuvers >= Perception. Shield Use factors into some maneuvers, but not all. Those are the standard skills that are taken into account.


Category: Sorcerers
Topic: So You Want to be a Sorcerer?
Message #: 950
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 02/26/2015 11:56 AM EST
Subject: Re: training for creature combat maneuvers? & triple training spells

SILVEAN: However, ranks in the Combat Maneuvers skill does help with defending against creature maneuvers in equal measure with the much cheaper Perception skill.

This is only true in stance offensive. In stance defensive (and a sliding scale up to that point based upon stance), Combat Maneuvers provides twice as much bonus vs. Perception.

GameMaster Estild

Armor Penalty

Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Pinefar Hunting Areas
Message #: 4610
Author: GS4-COASE
Date: 11/29/2009 3:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: Ayep.

The armor penalty is a relatively significant factor. For a character exactly trained for full plate at cap, it contributes a penalty a little bit above the difference between 1x and 2x PF. Overtraining in armor to reduce the action penalty and/or using Armored evasion can reduce the maneuver penalty by a fairly significant amount, however.



Category: Rangers
Topic: Ranger Spells
Message #: 4896
Author: GS4-MESTYS
Date: 12/1/2009 4:58:06 PM
Subject: Re: 618 and standard maneuvers

>Does the bonus 618 provides to avoiding standard critter maneuvers increase with dedicated training in the ranger circle? If so, is the bonus capped at level? -Droit

Yes, the Mobility bonus is dependent upon Ranger spell ranks. The bonus is not capped.



Category: Clerics
Topic: Cleric Spells
Message #: 944
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 11/19/2014 2:11 PM EST
Subject: Re: 319

The spirit penalty for AS/DS is based upon a percent of your missing spirit, so increasing your maximum spirit (through enhancives) does increase the amount of spirit you can lose before you see a penalty. However, for the maneuver penalty, it does not. Any spirit loss is a penalty, and the more that's missing, the higher the penalty. Voln Clerics do have an advantage in regaining spirit to offset the penalty, but that's just a part of societies in general, where they offer different advantages/disadvantages for players to pick between.

GameMaster Estild

Specific Creature Maneuver Updates

Krynch & Cockatrice

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Critters and Creatures
Message #: 4978
Author: GS4-MESTYS
Date: 9/15/2007 9:32:48 PM
Subject: Of Rolling Rocks and Grim Gazes.

A couple of creature maneuvers have been updated tonight, after a review of their previous effectiveness.

First, the boulder roll maneuver employed by both regular krynches and greater krynches has been modified in the following manner:

  • Non-visible targets of the roll will receive a significant bonus to avoiding the maneuver.
  • Critical failures will result in partial immobility, instead of the previous full immobility, and will last only as long as the roundtime induced by the failure.
  • Critical failure will result in only a significant stance reduction, instead of the previous full stance reduction.
  • A new tier of successful maneuver avoidance has been added, which will result in no roundtime, and will not reveal non-visible targets.
  • The maneuver will no longer always be performed upon the creature's generation.
  • The maneuver will now also be performed on occasion when the krynch moves from room to room.

Second, the freezing gaze attack of the various cockatrice creatures has been modified to more modern mechanics. Side effects may include dizzy spells, depression, and unconsiousness.


Version 2


Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Combat Maneuver Discussion
Message #: 1144
Date: 12/28/2016 03:58 AM GMT
Subject: SMRv2 Details!

Hi everybody!

Here to talk a little bit about the new SMR (SMRv2?) and share some info on what skills, stats, and other things have an effect on it. (SMR stands for Standard Maneuver Roll. It's the system that most critters use for special attacks that aren't on the CMAN system, like roa'ter burrows.)

So, let's get right into what factors are taken into account for the SMR. These are not listed by any order of importance. It's just the order that made sense to me.

The primary defense for the defender is calculated using:

  • Stats
  1. Primary: Dexterity
  2. Secondary: Agility and Intuition.
  • Skills (Note: All skills are weighted equally by the SMR.)
  1. Dodge
  2. Combat Maneuvers
    1. The bonus ranks granted by Patron's Blessing (1611) are taken into account.
  3. Perception
  4. Physical Fitness
    1. Spells that give a bonus to dodge ranks are taken into account.
  5. Shield Use is used in some cases, depending on the maneuver.
  • Defender spell effects
  1. Heroism (215)
  2. Prayer (313)
  3. Haste (535)
  4. Phase (704)
    1. - Phase (704) can now be cast as a self-defensive buff. Sorcerous Lore, Demonology ranks increase this bonus.
  5. Cloak of Shadows (712)
  6. Melgorehn's Aura (913)
  7. Empathic Focus (1109)
  8. Patron's Blessing (1611)
  • Other factors
  1. Stance, level difference, size/race, injuries, encumbrance, armor penalty, and status conditions.

One final note: Some factors may not be considered for a particular maneuver, depending upon its specifics. For example, magical maneuvers such as Earthen Fury (917) do not factor in the caster's stance or injuries. I'm sure there will be questions and clarifications needed so I'll be happy to answer any of those, outside of exact numbers, to the best of my abilities!

A couple of final notes that are semi-related: 1) Phase (704) has been given a self-only buff (standard buff duration) that increases the sorcerer's defenses against BOTH the old SMR and the new SMR. This buff is sorcerer only. 2) Patron's Blessing (1611) has also been given some defense against the old SMR, and the bonus ranks in Combat Maneuvers granted by the spell now also applies to the old SMR. This buff is paladin only.


~ Konacon

Update 1

Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Combat Maneuver Discussion
Message #: 1266
Date: 01/09/2017 10:11 PM EST
Subject: SMRv2 Details!
> It seems backwards that dexterity is a primary factor, and agility is a secondary factor.
> I think of agility as "whole body" dexterity, such as getting your entire body from one place to another. This should be a primary factor for a maneuver.
> I think of dexterity as "fine motor skills", e.g,. not whole body.

These are good points. I've switched the two so that now agility is the primary stat and dexterity/intuition are the secondary stats.

In addition, I've translated some old SMR abilities to the SMRv2. The list is as follows:

Giant stomp, caedera quaking, tailswipe, wing buffet, bandit dispel shard, triton drowning, beetle poison fog, Confluence twisting vortext air blast, dreamvine twinkling dust as well as their wrap ability, and the sentinel snake weapon grab.

Let me know if you see any issues with these or have any questions!

~ Konacon

Survival Skill and Bandits

Category: Paladins
Topic: Paladin General Discussion
Message #: 423
Author: GS4-VIDUUS
Date: 05/14/2018 11:21 PM EDT
Subject: Re: Only way I seem to die lately

I'm pretty sure it's been stated before that survival helps with bandit traps.

While the SMRv2 skills should probably be considered the best options for all-around defense. There can and will be mechanics that integrate other skills where it makes sense, even if they are migrated to SMR eventually. As an example, if something like a wizard labyrinth full of traps were added to the game, it would make sense that some of the traps may have a magic item use aspect tossed in for minimizing/negating damage.