Talk:Player Guide Contest

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GOAT's Submissions

I started on Icemule, and plan on helping out with a few others. I hope we'll see some new marketing efforts by Simu once this contest is complete.

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the prizes, though. I'm always happy to see RPAs, but with the recent trend of tightening the reigns on them, I don't know if we're talking 75000 extra experience of 750. I'm even less excited about standard GALD. A contest that could help retain new players, and could see players sinking tens of hours into it, seems like it would top out higher than an EG custom photo contest - more like an unrestricted enchant. (Edit: To be clear, I understand that you don't owe us anything, and can run your contest however you lile).

I'll write some documentation either way (even absent any prizes), but probably a few paragraphs here and there instead of a concerted effort.

BTW, I recently posted a fairly comprehensive guide for swinging sorcerers ( I figure that's a little exotic to say much about in a new player guide, but Scribes, if you think otherwise, I can pull out a couple paragraphs into the new sorcerers guide, and copy it to the wiki and reference it. (That guide is what Whirlin was referencing below.)


Yo, Goat! The type of RPAs were never really discussed with me, but I'm inclined to use a mixture of either (flat amount vs increased exp gain) depending on the quality or amount of the edits being performed by the editor. I'm always one for more marketing, but definitely not in a position to do anything about it. I leave it to the powers that be to figure out the best way to do so. I do think the guides will help with new player retention and definitely go to the heart of one reason Krakiipedia became such a valuable resource for players since Naos established it years ago. As for the level of the prize, I think it works out pretty well. Then again, I remember when alterations were rather few and far between, oops pardon me a moment, I had dust and spiderwebs getting in my eyes, ahem. ;)
I do think for things like swinging sorcerers, it's quite feasible to have a more "advanced" section for each of the profession guides. Such once all the basics are covered up front, show what kind of cool stuff players can do with their respective professions as they grow more comfortable with the mechanics and what not of the game. So you're definitely welcome to contribute your work from the PC toward receiving a reward. Thank you for the input and contributions! GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:34, 8 February 2015 (CST)
Re:swinging sorcerers - I imported my mutant sorcerer guide and added it as a single inline link and footnote to the new sorcerer guide. That seems about the right amount of attention for a new player to give to the matter (that is, almost none, except for curiosity's sake). I also made a decent number of small/moderate-sized contributions main new sorcerer guide while I was at it.--GOAT (talk) 23:28, 6 March 2015 (CST)

VANKRASN39's Submissions

If you're handing out RPAs, don't forget about me. VANKRASN39 (talk) 17:19, 5 February 2015 (CST)

It's a good idea and you can submit it! GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
  • In terms of the collaborative newbie guide, I worked with Haliste in early January to get the Mentor guides posted for all three starter towns (Landing is in New Players' Guide). I made some changes to each of them if you want our email chain that is more detailed than what the edit history shows.
It definitely appears to be a great starting place for the beginner's guide. I think it definitely can go toward reward.GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
  • I would also like to submit Character guide, which is a 6 month work in progress because I have had to add/edit every single linked basic verb to the wiki, as well as pages like roleplay.
Thanks! GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
Sweet, thanks! GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
  • This question probably belongs here more than in IMT: Do we really need town starter guides for every town when new players are only dropped in IMT, TV and WL?
As I mentioned under the IMT talk, and will repeat here because I'm too lazy to just cut and paste and you're right, it better belongs here, is that on the off chance someone chooses premium right from the start and then can choose any of the other towns. It's in the minority for sure, but possible. Attention should be placed on the big three unless folks simply love and know more about the other towns and still want to contribute.GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 13:36, 8 February 2015 (CST)
For a truly new player, the other towns are not properly set up to really accommodate learning the game on a step by step basis. My guide in those towns would be DON'T START IN THIS TOWN IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE GAME. DON'T DO IT. REALLY. DON'T. Link the three appropriate towns, and that would be it. VANKRASN39 (talk) 13:43, 8 February 2015 (CST)
Heh. It might actually be a good thing to put in the general "New Players Guide" the recommendation they start in one of those three towns and something of a less than all caps suggestion in the other towns to reconsider their selection. GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 13:53, 8 February 2015 (CST)


  • What type for format on these guides would you like? I think they should all look similar. I like the New Player section idea.
They should try and follow the same format, definitely. I plan to post a follow up to my announcement to hopefully guide everyone toward the same path. The ultimate form will be decided by consensus by you guys! 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
  • Should they be Warrior Beginners Guide or Warrior Guide for example.
I'll be addressing this shortly. GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)
  • Those newbie guides are all excellent.
  • Character guides too. River's Rest kind of started all of that. Are they all in 3rd person?
  • Whirlin has a lot of great guides. Silvean's roleplaying guide was exceptional too.
Yup, yup! Thanks for the info! GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 10:06, 6 February 2015 (CST)

Part II

  • Warrior is in pretty good shape after a lot of revisits.
  • Special thanks to Metadi for his reviews and additional feedback.
  • It is meant to be a warrior to warrior discussion for an early player. I tried to avoid New Players' Guide redundancies.
  • I did make sure to leave a Mentors shoutout early! Great suggestion Metadi!

IXIX's Comments

  • Feel free to use the {{work-in-progress template}} at the top of your guides (and anywhere else!)

GS4-IXIX (talk) 16:25, 6 February 2015 (CST)

Whirlin's Comments

  • Kinda reinventing the wheel on Wizard and Bard guides... and I already had a newbie guide in the works (Accessible from my page), and was reformatting my sorc guide and implementing feedback from Dergoatean. I've also already included links back when this was on Krakii from the wizard and bard pages to the guides, as well as kept the posts up to date based on the back and forth discussions on both official and unofficial forums. While I absolutely appreciate the effort and leveraging the wiki interface with managing of new user guides, there is a LOT of subjectivity involved with guides... Check my thread on PC regarding my sorc guide for a wonderful example. Adding a collaborative effort to this may end up being more detrimental than beneficial in some instances, or may simply overwhelm the end reader.
  • I've also voiced the intent regarding creation of a newbie guide, in direct recognition of simutronics asking for additional new user informative material. If we now want a collective hivemind brain dump, I'll devote my time elsewhere.
  • I'm going to continue to make my individualized guides, under my own name, based on my own experiences while soliciting and evaluating feedback to produce the highest quality effort. I would really be annoyed if someone retorted months of DF research and pages of equations with a wiki edit to say something like, "I swing a claid, lulz" with no mathematical or intellectual basis for input. I will be rather annoyed if my efforts become anonymitized (not a real word, but you know what I'm saying) through the process of open wiki edits.
  • HJELTE (talk) 16:46, 6 February 2015 (CST)
Hola Whirlin, your participation is entirely up to yourself and there is no plan to delete or eliminate the pages you have been working on. As for the subjective aspect, potentially the guide of any profession should point these aspects out, as the paths one might want to take with their profession. We definitely want to avoid overwhelming the reader, and I believe the community can recognize the difference between info dump and useful information provided in an understanding manner. If you want to contribute to the pages everyone will be focusing their efforts on, you're definitely welcome to do. However, the goal, oft repeated here, is a collaborative effort on the pages that I setup for such a purpose. Join in, ignore, it's up to you. I fail to see why the subject of a new player guide is one that is ruined by the participation of others. If someone makes a silly "lulz" edit, then obviously it can be reverted, as should be expected. Obviously, since your account is tied to your edits, there is some accountability for how one edits, and if one abuses the power, they can find themselves in real trouble. As for your efforts, they obviously can be tracked through the history if you wish to work on the specific pages, but likewise, if you do not want to participate and work on the other pages, you can do so. Even Krakiipedia was an open wiki to players who requested the power to edit, it's never been or was intended to be a fill in for individual users to have walled wiki space.
I understand your thoughts and concerns and invite you to participate, as I think it's a project you could definitely offer a lot of great knowledge, too. GS4-SCRIBES (talk) 17:17, 6 February 2015 (CST)

FYI via Scribes

Note: This was originally posted over in the Beginner's guide to rangers' discussion page, but is applicable to the contest as a whole. Gracias!

Hola guys,

I will make a similar statement on the wiki (all right, I may just cut and paste, don't judge me) on the disagreements that have been boiling up and over concerning the beginning ranger's guide.

First off, obviously people are motivated and passionate. That's awesome.

Second off, per the contest rules and winning rewards, authorship is not important, it's contribution. Those two sound very similar, but someone can author a guide, but then someone else can come in and add an additional 100% of information. They've done the same thing, but they are different. As the irrational arbiter of this contest, I will be ignoring the idea of authorship and looking to contribution (obviously, authorship can be recognized as a contribution).

Third off, the essence of the contest was to inspire a communal effort to produce fantastic guides. Most of the ranger guide posts have reflected this, but this is not a contest of, "Whomever writes the BEST guide" wins. It's a contest of contribution where everyone wins, but the degree of the reward rests on how much effort they put into it.

Fourth off, the nature of wikis is one of communal ownership. No one owns an article or a page because everyone has the right to make changes or edits to it. The principle behind it is that society as a whole will land on a consensus that favors the best information over the work of any one individual. if someone wants to create a page entitled, "Joe's Ultimate Guide to Rangering" they are welcome to do so. They do not own that page, either, but it seems that KP has a history of respecting individual's efforts to present their vision unaltered within its realm. I personally do not see a problem following this tradition, either, hence my note to Whirlin on the wiki contest page. However, for the pages that were setup for this contest, no one owns them. No one has a preemptive right of edit, or prima editore or first amongst equals or whatever you want to call it. If someone attempts to build a wall around one of these articles, they will incur my wrath (stop laughing!), but consider this a fresh start for anyone(s) who may have made certain statement(s) to the contrary.

Fifth off, for those of you are having problems with seeing drafts altered in the middle of drafting. This is a problem as old as wikis and drunk 10th Century monks. It was recommended to use a sandbox. This is a great suggestion and even if you're not comfortable enough to create one on the wiki, then use the old fashion version, a word file. One potential way to work this problem out, create your guide elsewhere, and then invite others to adapt it to the existing material.

Sixth off, thank you to everyone who has spiritedly engaged in this endeavor. I know while tempers and frustrations have arisen, these are not vain glory projects, but earnest attempts to create helpful guides to new players. That's fantastic! So thank you again!

Seventh off, please feel free to contact me with any concerns or questions. I want this to be a fun, not infuriating, event. Even if you just want to blow off steam, shoot me an email or catch me on GMail Chat (GMScribes).

Thanks, guys and gals!

GM Scribes