Gswiki:Village pump
Welcome to the village pump, where anyone can say anything about whatever, and people can respond! Yeehaw! Remember to sign your comments by putting 4 tildes (~~~~) at the end.
March marches on!
Wanted to let everyone know I created a Redirect template which will allow us to more easily reach disambiguation. Presently, some disambiguation pages (like AG) can have multiple entries, but we didn't select one. Now, we can select one, and with the Redirect template, we can code in where the disambiguation resides. Requires three touches - a disambiguation page loaded with possible terms and created with 'Title (disambiguation)'; a redirect that is simply 'Title' and set to redirect to the most favored topic, and an edit to the most favored topic to add the Redirect template info. See 'AG' as an example. No more hidden or orphanged disambiguation pages! DOUG (talk) 00:17, 15 March 2015 (CDT)
SYSOP ATTN: Tried using the on-wiki email function, as presumed it would preserve links. However, experienced the following error:
- Unknown error in PHP's mail() function
Is this something easily repaired? DOUG (talk) 23:02, 15 March 2015 (CDT)
Could use some information added to Battle of Skyreach - and probably need to put in the correct geo-categories for Skyreach. Sorry, elf expert here, not human. DOUG (talk) 14:33, 16 March 2015 (CDT)
TEMPLATES - created three new templates for use in herb shops. I did it because I hate formatting (those checking the recent changes can attest, I hope).
- A template named 'H', you won't be calling this one directly, but it does a look up on an herb and returns the link to that herb in shop text. Example: {{H | acantha}} returns [[Acantha leaf | some acantha leaf]].
- A template named 'T' that does the same thing except it returns the tincture for the herb, like {{T | acantha}} -> [[Acantha leaf | a tincture of acantha]]. I chose the base herb rather than the tincture to link to because too often the tincture is the alchemical recipe, rather than a complete definition of the herb itself.
- A template named 'Hshop' which is the glue that binds. This template takes in a formatted line, calls the appropriate 'T' or 'H' template to lookup the link structure, and puts the information back to a single line. This can then be wrapped by a table to provide a complete linked table of herbs in an herb shop. The parameters in order:
- The catalog number shown in the shop
- An H or a T, depending on if the shop has herbs or tinctures
- The base herb, such as pothinir
- The price, if you get that while in the shop.
- So now shops are as simple to format as {{Hshop | 1 | T | pothinir | 250}}. For a direct example, you can check out Natulcien's Healer Hall.
Off to do the Sylvarraend shop next, just to see how much off-wiki editing I'll have to do to clean a log. Ugh - formatting! DOUG (talk) 02:10, 17 March 2015 (CDT)
And NEW templates, again. Adding 'Sp' and 'Log2' to our collections. 'Sp' does nothing more than put in non-breaking spaces, however many you specify up to 10. Format is {{Sp|5}} to imbed 5 spaces. To imbed 15 spaces - {{Sp|10}}{{Sp|5}}. This should probably only be used at the beginning of a line to indent, because 'Log2' is designed to retain white spaces in the line itself. So no need to imbed white space any where other than at the beginning of a line. Using these templates, EXPERIENCE would look like this in wiki-speak (compare it with the actual code on EXPERIENCE (verb). Yikes!)
<pre{{log2}}> <!-- Note no space between pre and template call, very important --!>
<!-- Note, standard copy and paste of EXP output follows with Experience translinked to appropriate page --!>
>exp
Level: 6 Deeds: 0
[[Experience]]: 43060 Death's Sting: None
Exp. until next: 11940 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 5 Fame: 27644
Physical TPs: 47 Mana: 23/23 max
Your mind is as clear as a bell.
</pre>
gives us this output:
>exp
Level: 6 Deeds: 0
Experience: 43060 Death's Sting: None
Exp. until next: 11940 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 5 Fame: 27644
Physical TPs: 47 Mana: 23/23 max
Your mind is as clear as a bell.
UPDATE: Based on Vanessa's feedback (the dialog below), I set as my goal to adjust these templates to better conform to vertical white-space layout, while retaining the horizontal white-space layout where I felt it relevant in logs. I've adjusted the LOG2 template significantly to meet these goals, and the new usage is specified above. The challenge to meet the improvement requests Vanessa suggested below led to no more vertical 'blue' white-space in the logs (and can be adjusted if living on the edge isn't your thing). And very happy additional benefits - I undertook as a goal to absolutely minimize editing needed to bring a log snapshot over from a game log, so there should be (note: should be) no need to add any hard line breaks to logs, and there is also no need to use the SP template referenced above. Leading spaces are now properly accounted for. There may still be some utility to the SP template, so for now I'll leave it in place, but consider it deprecated at this point. I'm very interested in hearing if 'log dumps' into this template do not perform as specified. And if they don't, leave me a note on my talk page - and revert to LOG - as long as spacing retention is not important. Thanks for the input, Vanessa! DOUG (talk) 13:51, 25 March 2015 (CDT)
Put 'em to good use! DOUG (talk) 23:27, 23 March 2015 (CDT)
- I very much disagree with putting extra white space where there does not need to be extra white space. I do not think line breaks necessarily need to appear where it appears in game if it disrupts the readability to the user. The game is more limited than we are here. This site should lean toward readability and usability vs. purist vision of in game text. If you want a purist vision, I recommend uploading screenshots (whenever that is fixed). VANKRASN39 (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- True representation of what is seen in game in the FEs is important in a number of cases. The concept of 'purist vision' is secondary - immediate orientation of what one is seeing on screen is the goal; this is important with the influx of new members. We recognize patterns and layouts, and some mental energies are spent trying to figure out why what we're seeing (before we even begin reading) is different. A new player also pointed out to me that format recognition helps discern relevant material from irrelevant material in-game once one becomes familiar with it. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'll also point out that <br> tags are necessary with 'Log', but are not with 'Log2', which further reduces editing - an important goal in my view. I hate tweaking formats, in case that wasn't evident. In short, I welcome the disagreement, but do not see disagreement on spacing (in-line, not between lines) / in-game view as warranting an edit. I would like them reverted. This is something I can do, but I would hate to revert a combined edit and lose the benefit of the grammar corrections and multi-line (different from multi-space) corrections that I see as exceptionally beneficial. So I ask that they be reverted by the editor. I'll do so however, if needed, but would prefer not. Interesting side-bar: There are about 190 articles going back to at least 2009 where other authors / editors felt retention of in-line spacing (game view) was important. DOUG (talk) 12:05, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- adding the different SP templates is more work than adding BRs. I can add br tags in Word in 1 second. VANKRASN39 (talk) 12:16, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- WORD is powerful, no doubt. It is no more work, though - I can do the same using WORD with the various SP# entries, upon opening the document itself. I'm sure you could as well. However, not everyone has access to WORD, nor likes using WORD. I prefer *NIX tools, myself, and reach the same ends in the same time frame - yes, for either template choice. None of this has relevance to the discussion since the representation is not retained using the 'Log' template, and br tags aren't needed in 'Log2'. I'll commit this, though, as a courtesy - I won't edit any logs you post where you choose 'new-found ability for your choice of readability' over my choice 'for consistency with in-game orientation'. I'd like the same courtesy. I'll begin my reversions in a couple hours, if not completed before then. I apologize in advance if I remove any meaningful edits while correcting the non-meaningful ones. Another side-bar: Before creating Log2, I thought to just modify Log to do what I wanted, but the number of transclusions and an appropriate QC seemed too much effort for what is really a simple task. DOUG (talk) 12:48, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- And so here we have again a situation where pages are "my" pages and "your" pages, and that should not be. Should you fix your template to not have the extra white space top and bottom, I will agree to use it. In the meantime, I believe the PM and/or APM should decide, and I would also welcome Mark's input. VANKRASN39 (talk) 13:04, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- I welcome all inputs. However, you confuse a conscious request / choice against inconsequential editing with a 'my / your' scenario. I've always held, publicly and privately, that edits need to make a difference. I vehemently agree with you concerning the extra line white space - was working on that at this very moment. More tweaking - yay. But I do want to be sure to retain that worthy contribution when I do the reversions. Hence 'a couple of hours'. Note, though, I'm not asking you (or anyone else) to change your contributions to use Log2 going forward. If I fall into a disagreement about in-game / readability on something someone posts, the author can expect a note with a plea, rather than an edit. Courtesy, you see. DOUG (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- Verb pages are not exactly guides or in depth. As I said via email, I was making them look like the hundred or so other verb pages that I edited in exactly the same manner. If you are so protective of your verb pages, I am concerned about the ease of working with you on other projects. VANKRASN39 (talk) 13:30, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- I understand about VERBS, but somehow I'm not getting my point across. Apologies. Somehow, I'll find the way to ensure we all understand it doesn't just affect VERBS. Perhaps that bit of recommended research would make it clear. Let me help - search the wiki for
nbsp;for insights into the 190 other articles referenced. Most of those articles included were part of a project that is deemed very successful. Also note adjustment to use above (see how useful a few extra spaces can be?) - the problem with the extra lines that are so importune is - the white space command used to preserve the formatting preserves it all, including the natural tendency to start the log input on a new line, and close out the DIV tag on a new line. I'm working various angles, but for now, use (or edit as required) as shown will meet both goals. I'll update if I get a more intuitive fix in play, but it might be beyond simple editorship rights, involving the CSS itself. DOUG (talk) 18:55, 24 March 2015 (CDT)
- I understand about VERBS, but somehow I'm not getting my point across. Apologies. Somehow, I'll find the way to ensure we all understand it doesn't just affect VERBS. Perhaps that bit of recommended research would make it clear. Let me help - search the wiki for
Happy 1 Month!
Happy 1 month on Play.net, everybody. So far so good? VANKRASN39 (talk) 22:05, 31 January 2015 (CST)
- See the Help page for how to search. VANKRASN39 (talk) 11:58, 4 February 2015 (CST)
- So far, so good. Although, I haven't been checking back to old Krakii site. Is that down completely now? Just want to make sure we don't fork information. Also... any word from GM side if we can integrate in a better search bar? Lich is a cesspool when it comes to adoption of GSWiki just because of those search shortcomings. HJELTE (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2015 (CST)
- There have been no changes there in the past 30 days. VANKRASN39 (talk) 20:18, 4 February 2015 (CST)
- So far, so good. Although, I haven't been checking back to old Krakii site. Is that down completely now? Just want to make sure we don't fork information. Also... any word from GM side if we can integrate in a better search bar? Lich is a cesspool when it comes to adoption of GSWiki just because of those search shortcomings. HJELTE (talk) 18:41, 4 February 2015 (CST)
Verbs
Super tedious project: completing the verbs on the Special:WantedPages. Who wants to help? You can see TURN (verb), ASK (verb), and POKE (verb) for examples, but feel free to go further in depth or add to mine, or do any of the other wanted pages. ASK led me to adding a whole lot more detail to the Quin Telaren page. VANKRASN39 (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2015 (CST)
- With regards to the current Player Guide Contest, none of the guides are going to be very complete when they will be published with many broken links to basic verbs that do not have pages. At some point, someone needs to step in and help. Thanks. VANKRASN39 (talk) 23:29, 5 February 2015 (CST)
- I'll help out with this, but first I think it important to start weeding through and correcting errors. Some of these things do exist or seem totally nonsensical. I'm working from the 'back' of the list on '1-link' requests. That will hopefully allow for some focus. And as I trip across a verb request I feel I can do, I'll put it up. DOUG (talk) 00:19, 16 March 2015 (CDT)
Creature family categories
One thing I've really tried to do is make the wiki more navigable via categories. Something standing in my way has always been the creature family categories that generate from Template:Creature start. Most of the categories created only have one or two entries and it really bloats the category list. What do people think about deleting this part of the template and getting rid of the excess categories? This is something I've never felt comfortable doing without some sort of consensus/permission, and there weren't really enough editors for one. VANKRASN39 (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2015 (CST)
- I'm in favor of this idea with one caveat. The <Creature name> Family Creatures (eg. Rat Family Creatures) categories account for at least 30% of all categories. My suggestion would be to replace these categories with individual pages which would include a list of the applicable creatures. This of course would require (not exactly sure on the number) approximately 240 new pages. Each of these pages would be placed in Category:Creature Families which would become a sub-category of Category:Creatures. Hey! Let me know when you're done :) Mark (talk) 23:34, 5 January 2015 (CST)
- Well, what if only those with 2 or more creatures got their own page? Would that be sufficient? VANKRASN39 (talk) 00:26, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- I'd feel more comfortable if every family was included if only for reference purposes. I don't mind creating the pages. I might need some guidance with template modifications and removal of the current category pages. If you have no objection to the overall proposal I'll begin on the page creation process. BTW your output is mind boggling and I'm going to recommend to Wyrom that you be awarded the inaugural NONPAREIL PRODUCTIVITY MEDAL for services above and beyond mere mortals. Mark (talk) 00:49, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- Ha, thanks, we have about 40 days to make up for and you're doing great work as well. I think the creature start template tweak should come after all the pages are made because the current category list is the best resource for making the new pages. I think this is a project we can share the work on, but my work here is going to slow down dramatically. Did you want to make a basic template for the new pages? I'm happy to help with that, too. VANKRASN39 (talk) 01:17, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- You deserve some sort of tangible compensation for your efforts. Thanks, but I won't need a template; page creation is the trivial part which I can handle. Fixing links from the creature pages to the new pages may be a bit more daunting unless it can be effected within the Template:Creature Start. Mark (talk) 01:29, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- I think we can declare this project complete and, as far as my goals, a great success. Thanks, Mark! VANKRASN39 (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2015 (CST)
- The creature body types are now properly organized. VANKRASN39 (talk) 16:57, 21 January 2015 (CST)
- I think we can declare this project complete and, as far as my goals, a great success. Thanks, Mark! VANKRASN39 (talk) 11:40, 9 January 2015 (CST)
- You deserve some sort of tangible compensation for your efforts. Thanks, but I won't need a template; page creation is the trivial part which I can handle. Fixing links from the creature pages to the new pages may be a bit more daunting unless it can be effected within the Template:Creature Start. Mark (talk) 01:29, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- Ha, thanks, we have about 40 days to make up for and you're doing great work as well. I think the creature start template tweak should come after all the pages are made because the current category list is the best resource for making the new pages. I think this is a project we can share the work on, but my work here is going to slow down dramatically. Did you want to make a basic template for the new pages? I'm happy to help with that, too. VANKRASN39 (talk) 01:17, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- I'd feel more comfortable if every family was included if only for reference purposes. I don't mind creating the pages. I might need some guidance with template modifications and removal of the current category pages. If you have no objection to the overall proposal I'll begin on the page creation process. BTW your output is mind boggling and I'm going to recommend to Wyrom that you be awarded the inaugural NONPAREIL PRODUCTIVITY MEDAL for services above and beyond mere mortals. Mark (talk) 00:49, 6 January 2015 (CST)
- Well, what if only those with 2 or more creatures got their own page? Would that be sufficient? VANKRASN39 (talk) 00:26, 6 January 2015 (CST)
Archives
Archives of the Village Pump page.