Unarmed combat system/saved posts
Posts pertaining to Unarmed Combat.
- 1 Unarmed Combat
- 1.1 Simucon Announcement
- 1.2 Holding shields will cause a penalty
- 1.3 Voln Fu
- 1.4 Katars
- 1.5 Crit/Damage Weighting
- 1.6 Tier Timer
- 1.7 Brawling Weapon DF Bonuses and MM Penalties
- 1.8 Aim Clear Reminder
- 1.9 Kai's Smite
- 1.10 7/26/12 Update
- 1.11 Combat Maneuvers
- 1.12 Roundtime Adjustments
- 1.13 Unarmed Multistrike
- 1.14 Haste Penalty Removal
- 2 Unarmed Combat Equipment
- 3 See Also
b) Three tiers
i) Start with jab, based on success go into new tier, up to 3
You do not have to start with a jab to progress up the tier chart. You can start with a kick or a grapple, etc. However, they are slower, and not as effective in terms of jump starting the tier train.
As an aside, unarmed combat will require an open left hand. While messaging may state that a character is fighting with two fists or feet, training in TWC is not required (and apparently will not help to raise DS either if you get it anyway), as the unarmed combat system will have its own means of calculating DS. However, if you opt to use Brawling weapons, TWC would then be required to swingeroo - as it currently is now.
~Eugenides, The Last
Holding shields will cause a penalty
>At this point, I figure using a runestaff is pretty non-mainstream as a cleric. Most clerics, especially upper-level ones tend to brawl/shield anyway. -LORDKRIP
My thoughts as well. I'm not going to go into much detail about it, since we still need to work everything out internally, but it was announced at SimuCon that the Unarmed Combat System would not work while holding a shield. So the brawl/shield method will only be viable until then.
The focus is whether or not the proposed new unarmed combat system will render Voln unarmed combat unviable or obsolete.
It will render Voln Fu nonexistent. The current throw, punch, and kick mechanics will be entirely replaced by the new UCS.
The specific weapons that do work with the unarmed combat system were selected because they don't significantly modify how an attack would be performed if you used or didn't use the weapon. Katars significantly alter how you would perform an attack. The brawling weapons that do work with the unarmed combat system have a penalty to hit, but a bonus to the damage they deal. Special gloves and boots are available for the unarmed combat system that also offer the same enchant (and flare) bonuses, but have no penalty for use.
>Just curious how critical and damage weighting on a brawling weapon affects UAC attacks. I've got a nice crit weighted knuckle duster to play around with.
Weighting works the same in the UCS as it does in melee combat.
>It was my impression that both flares and weighting were active with the UCS friendly brawling weapons.
Just about all weapon special abilities should have a similar (not necessarily identical) effect in the UCS as they do in melee.
>How long does a tier level last?
Two minutes, which refreshes with every attack whether it connects or not.
Your unarmed attack status against a particular foe remains valid for two minutes, refreshed with every attack against that foe whether it connects or not. A preexisting tier-up potential is retained across a miss, or across an involuntary strike (Flurry or Mongoose) that doesn't produce a tier-up strike on its own.
Brawling Weapon DF Bonuses and MM Penalties
>1) If I have no training in two weapon combat, can I use two weapons for UAC and get the stacked DF bonus and MM penalty?
You don't need TWC training to use multiple pieces of equipment in a single UCS attack.
>2) If I am using my Voln ability to hunt undead with UAC, do these held brawling weapons need to be blessed?
If you want those weapons to confer any special abilities on the undead, then yes. You can always strike them with the appropriate Voln rank, but the equipment may hinder rather than help when it isn't blessed as well.
>3) If these held brawling weapons have an enchant (say 4x for each yierka spur I'm holding), does the 8x of enchant get added to my MM to help offset the MM penalty for using the weapons in UAC?
Weapon enchant helps with UAF, not MM. Held weapons contribute half of their average enchant to your final UAF, and thus two 4x weapons would give (((20 + 20) / 2) / 2) = +10 to UAF.
>4) What do UAC gloves and boots provide in terms of UAC benefits or DS?
Gloves and boots provide their full enchant to your UAF on the appropriate attack type, and contribute whatever special abilities they have, such as flares or weighting. They don't have any defensive attributes.
In general, you'll be better off without held weapons.
>Just to be clear with the Voln step 8 blessed attacks power. Your gloves/boots do not have to be blessed, but any held UCS weapons do need to be blessed. Aye?
When you have reached Kai's Strike, you will always be able to hit undead with an unarmed attack. Equipment which cannot hit the undead will not confer any benefit to the attack. In the case of gloves and boots, there is no penalty. In the case of held brawling weapons, there will be a penalty because they are not being used in the attack.
If you're messaged about a weapon hindering your attack, it is giving you zero offensive benefit, and some amount of penalty.
Aim Clear Reminder
Clear your AIM point. That is what gives you the failed opening attacks, and the extra RT for every strike. When you see the "precise attempt" attack messages with the UCS, it means that you're aiming.
>Speaking of which, Finros, is there any possibility of having it tweaked to stun more often? Or are we just not finding the good ways to stun, yet?
There are plenty of stuns built into the system, though many creatures are immune to stuns. Low tiers are less likely to see those stuns, however.
>About using smite, I would prefer not to have to use a symbol for every single creature.
Voln users should be using SMITE regularly among their mix of UCS attacks. It does not cost favor. Treat it as any other UCS attack and use it at the right time.
>Kai's Smite uses favor; Kai's strike doesn't. I tried using this symbol (Kai's Smite) 3 times and each time the noncorp returned to its ethereal state before I was out of the 4 second casting RT.
It has a minimum duration of 5 seconds. You'll find that it has longer durations when you've gone up in tier.
In response to concerns about Unarmed Combat, some changes have just been released.
1.) Armor penalties for UCS attacks are now half of their former value.
2.) Held item penalties for UCS attacks have been divided into two components. All non-UCS items held in the hand impose a base penalty. Weapons and shields impose an additional penalty which may be mitigated by training in the appropriate skill. A training regimen of 2x ranks per level in the appropriate weapon or shield skill will fully eliminate the additional penalty, and 8 magical ranks per level will fully eliminate the additional penalty for a runestaff.
3.) UCS compatible gloves now add their enchant bonus to parry DS in the same way as a one-handed weapon.
4.) An empty left hand now provides parry DS similar to that of a main gauche or sai, for those characters trained in brawling and Two Weapon Combat.
5.) Brace (1214) now allows two chances to outright parry an attack for double open handed combatants trained in two weapon combat.
An additional FIXSKILLS opportunity is now available for all characters so that training may be adjusted accordingly.
>>Able to give any insight into what the masteries do? You mentioned in passing they raise the MM when using that attack style. Or if you can recommend a way to go and test I can compare between rank 1 and no mastery at all. My MM fluctuates so much (93-110 versus kobolds) I'm sure I wouldn't notice if it was consistently a few points higher.
The masteries provide +5 MM per rank and +5% tier up chance per rank, each when using the appropriate attack type.
The base speeds (minimum RT) of some unarmed attacks have been revised downward. Jab has been reduced from 3 to 2, grapple from 4 to 3, and kick from 5 to 4. Punch and smite remain at 3 and 4, respectively.
Unarmed combatants may now initiate unarmed multi-strike attacks, provided that they have sufficient training in the Multi Opponent Combat skill. Training thresholds are identical to melee multi-strike requirements for both unfocused (multi-target) and focused (same-target) versions. Such strikes are initiated with the MSTRIKE verb, specifying the type of unarmed attack desired, as in "MSTRIKE GRAPPLE" or "MSTRIKE KICK [target]". Use MSTRIKE HELP for more information and additional usage options.
However, the specified attack is not necessarily used on each individual strike. Instead, the following rules are used for each strike in sequence; the first one on which the conditions are met determines the type of attack.
- If a tier-up strike is pending against the target, use that type of attack.
- If the attacker currently has decent ("tier one") positioning against the target, use JAB. If this is the first jab against this particular target during this MSTRIKE invocation, it does not count for the purposes of total allowed strikes.
- If the attacker has good ("tier two") positioning against a target, use the attack type that was specified at the start.
- If the attacker has excellent ("tier three") positioning against a target, use the attack type that was specified at the start, unless the specified attack type was JAB, in which case choose a random attack from PUNCH, GRAPPLE, and KICK instead.
Related to this release, the ASSESS verb has been updated to list your unarmed position against all foes in the area, via ASSESS UNARMED.
>Also, I got 7 jabs while in defensive stance in the clip below on a player, with a weapon I get 6 max. Intended?
Yes. This is a manifestation of the secondary clause of targeting rule (2): "If this is the first [decent positioning] jab against that particular target during this MSTRIKE invocation, it does not count for the purposes of total allowed strikes." Since you had decent positioning and no tier-up attack pending against XXX, the first jab was "free". (And in an open mstrike, you get a free first jab against each target in turn, if at decent positioning and no tier-up attack pending).
>One thing I note is that Assess Unarmed needs to be spelled out in its entirety or you just get the help message...can that be condensed to maybe work on just Assess Unarm... or maybe just make a new verb Position...or battlesense...or something like that to give the information...since Assess already has uses?
This is another one of those parsing issues, and requiring the full spelling minimizes the chance of overlap. Anyway, ASSESS seemed like a decent verb to put it into at the time, but I'm open to other suggestions. (I hate making new verbs for minor functionality, but that's a personal quirk rather than any technical limitation, so I'm not opposed to an entirely new verb if someone proposes one that I like and don't think will be needed down the line for something else. I'm afraid that "position" strikes me as something that would potentially be useful in other systems, and I'm not a fan of "battlesense", though).
>Also, ASSESS UNARMED only works on NPC/critters.
Yup. I figure you're probably not engaging enough other players in combat simultaneously that you need help remembering what your combat status against them is.
Haste Penalty Removal
I had always considered the previous penalties to be a band-aid solution, at best, to the problems posed by Haste-like spells. The need for those penalties went away when we recently revised the various roundtime-modifying systems.
Unarmed Combat Equipment
For clarity, here are the full rules for unarmed equipment. These rules only consider equipment that is actually used in the attack -- if a held weapon isn't a part of the unarmed attack, it isn't considered in these rules.
AS/UAF: - Gloves and boots confer their full UAF bonus in all circumstances. - A single held piece of equipment contributes half of its AS bonus to UAF. - Two held pieces of equipment contribute half of the average of their AS bonus, to UAF.
Weighting: - Weighted gloves confer their full bonus when used alone. - Weighted gloves confer half their bonus when used with one or two held weapons. - A single weighted weapon confers half its bonus regardless of glove usage. - A single weighted weapon used in conjunction with a second weapon of any sort confers one quarter of its bonus regardless of glove usage (and this applies to each weapon individually -- so two weighted weapons will provide a quarter of their bonus each).
Flares and other scripted special abilities: - Each piece of equipment has a 1-in-N chance of activating on any given attack, where N is the number of pieces of equipment used in the attack. Some aspects (such as charge depletion of a blessed weapon) happen with every attack.
Here is a case where I asked, no answer, I get disappointed, and then I get an answer after the fact. Having this exact information is perfect and would have changed how I planned my RtCF wins if it was provided when the system was rolled out or when I asked for it specifically before any services were spent in my planning phase. - ROLFARD
Yes, my apologies for neglecting the forums. I've been caught up with other game commitments, and until your question came to me (via another staff member), answering posts had become very low priority for me. Don't hesitate to post multiple times in the future if you feel that your question is being ignored; it is more likely to catch my attention that way when I've missed the first ones.
With regard to unarmed combat, it is always* better to apply an effect to gloves or boots, rather than a held weapon, whenever you have the choice. Held weapons are meant to be the inferior option, and are mainly allowed because of past statements that they would be allowed. If I were doing it again, I would probably choose to not use them in unarmed combat at all. They're only meant to be beneficial if you have an already-existing held weapon with some sort of superior effect.
Bane vs. Weight
If one were using handwraps that were HCP and holding an undead bane UAC weapon vs living - half weight? vs undead - no weight and full bane? - ROLFARD
If you are holding no weapon -- or more specifically, no weapon that is involved in the unarmed attack sequence -- you get full benefit from weighting on the handwraps. If you are holding one or two weapons, you get half the weighting from the handwraps. One held weapon confers half of the nominal weighting bonus, and two held weapons confer a quarter of their weighting bonus, each. Other bane abilities, such as flares or specially scripted behaviors, are activated in proportion to how many total pieces of equipment you are using in the attack.
No. Ensorcellment grants flares which, like other flares, have a reduced chance to trigger when used with multiple pieces of equipment. It has no effect on any other aspect of unarmed combat.
I have ensorcelled handwraps and a weighted UAC weapon and I am getting half the weighting of the UAC weapon but it has nothing to do with ensorcellment? - ROFARD
Ensorcellment on a piece of equipment used in an unarmed attack has no effect whatsoever on any other piece of equipment used in that attack.
It works in roughly the same way as it does melee combat. Damage weighting adds to the HP damage done in an attack. Crit weighting adds to the crit calculation of the attack. The effect of the latter is more flattened in unarmed combat as compared to melee combat, since there's effectively only five calculable "crit ranks" as opposed to nine, which are mapped onto the crit table based on your current unarmed attack tier. In other words, you reach the point of diminishing returns more quickly than in melee combat. It's still useful though, especially with lower endrolls against high armor groups.