User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE

Followup versus Follow-up

https://gswiki.play.net/Unarmed_combat_system

I changed it to "followup" to match the in game messaging (which I guess then that means the in game messaging needs to be bugged!).

Also, while I'm here, thank you for all the work you've done :)

WINTERDAWN (talk) 16:47, 7 March 2021 (CST)

Yes, the in-game messaging should probably be bugged. I have no say on the arbitration of that messaging, but you could link the article I supplied. Thank you for the recognition of the work - I can only do that work because of everyone who is adding information to the wiki. My thanks to everyone who is working so hard to put information on this resource we all share and enjoy. I am thrilled when people contribute. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 11:55, 20 March 2021 (CDT)

Deleting Messages

What are your thoughts on deleting messages here so communication with you is easier to control/read? What about in general? Sometimes I run into some talk pages where the conversation is irrelevant. What about on say my own talk page? Is it okay to maybe go in and organize it better as I see fit or best to leave what others say alone? ..and circling back around.. a conversation such as this where it's a bit rambly, leave it alone or delete it? Or the above conversation about followup? Also, should this be done on your USER page or your TALK page?

WINTERDAWN (talk) 17:16, 12 April 2021 (CDT)

All of these sorts of messages should be on the Discussion page attached to my User page. You can think of the User page like a profile and the Discussion page as a place for people to ask questions. It is best if individuals do not delete or edit things on (1) someone else's User page, (2) someone's character page or character subpages, or (3) on guides written specifically by a person where they have not given permission. It is also best not to do anything except add to someone's Discussion page. You may blank your own Discussion page if you would like, or add headers, but etiquette would suggest you should not edit someone else's question or message. As an example, I know that I would not appreciate anyone coming on to my User/Discussion page and moving, editing, or deleting information on them. I also personally prefer not to blank pages so as to leave searchable information here so other people can see it and maybe learn something as well. I hope that helps. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:55, 12 April 2021 (CDT)

On point 2 and 3... what about typo/code fixes? On point 3... what about glaring errors? I remember this being discussed before but I'd like my memory refreshed. As an example, say a guide said, "you get 3 mana every time you train harness power" because it was made before the harness power changes and so is now erroneous information (which is an objective thing versus being subjective). WINTERDAWN (talk) 23:25, 12 April 2021 (CDT)

User pages and character pages: It is my understanding that player editors should not be making typo/code fixes on other user's pages (which include their User page and character page(s), discussion pages associated with those pages, or subpages of any of these things). Staff may do so, although we try not to touch other people's pages without discussing it with them first. There are some exceptions for us (including if the code is causing problems with the wiki or if we deleted a page or redirected a page that is causing a bad link on a user's page). If you notice a typo or would like to make a suggestion to a code fix, please use the discussion pages associated with all articles to make the suggestions. The only exception is when the user associated with those pages leaves a message on the associated discussion page giving permission to all or specific editors to make fixes. This is in accordance with Help:Character pages. If you think it is something that desperately needs fixed, you can draw staff attention to it by leaving a note on the discussion page, leaving a note on a moderator discussion page, or posting in Discord. A typo or bad link would not count as something that desperately needs fixed.

Player guides: It is my understanding that player editors should completely refrain from editing guides that are attached to an individual's user page or character page(s). In this situation, player editors can leave a message on the associated discussion page(s). In situations where the guides are in the main space (i.e. gswiki.play.net/<article title here>) and signed by a specific author such as "Motte's Guide to Archery" or "Guide to Archery by Motte," it is best etiquette to leave a note on the associated discussion page for non-typo changes and wait a couple weeks for a response before making the edit. By making the note on the associated discussion page of the error, readers can find the accurate information. This does not apply, in my opinion, to typos or changes needing made because the mechanics changed. In situations where it is a simple number swap, I would go ahead and do it and leave a note on the discussion page linking to why you did it (if the summary field for the change is not adequate). However, sometimes a mechanical change will result in the guide needing substantial changes to the information conveyed. In those situations, I would recommend italicizing the incorrect information in the guide, leaving a note such as below after it, and then leaving a note on both the guide's discussion page and on the author's user discussion page.

For example: Rangers are lamesauce because they don't have a low-level CS-spell, so I recommend that you <do a bunch of different things here.> (Note: Rangers were updated in December 2020 and now have [[Wild Entropy (603)]] which may make the italicized portion of the guide inapplicable. The guide's author may want to update this section.)

It is my preference that people writing guides explicitly leave a note stating whether or not they would welcome changes to the guides, indicating whether it is a specific guide written by them where they want to control updates or a community guide welcoming updates. In addition, it is best if people have guides that they do not want edited, that they subpage the guide off their character page or their user page. This helps make it really clear to staff what their preference is. While preferences cannot always be honored, we would like to encourage more people to participate in editing the wiki by being respectful of individuals. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 10:12, 13 April 2021 (CDT)

Redirects

Another separate question... In fixing the double redirects for character pages... Do you think maybe the "Arianiss Winterfox" pages (that redirect to Arianiss (prime)) should just be done away with? I know for a while people were creating pages under "First Last" style.

If it is your personal character page that you do not want to exist anymore, you can mark it for deletion by putting [[Category:Marked for Deletion]] on it. If it is not your personal character profile page, I would recommend leaving it alone at this time. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:55, 12 April 2021 (CDT)

Do you agree that there is no benefit to those pages as "FirstName" will always be available even if someone searched under "FirstName LastName"? Heck, do we even need "FirstName" as "FirstName (prime)" comes up in the search. WINTERDAWN (talk) 23:32, 12 April 2021 (CDT)

Given that player editors should really not be making changes to or altering other players' user pages or character pages, nor can player editors delete pages, my personal recommendation would be that they put their attention somewhere else instead of focusing on this kind of granularity of wiki management. This is an area of the wiki that is more my job to manage and address. I would much rather that player editors put their attention to adding new content to the wiki in accordance with their personal interests, helping with templating conversions (such as moving all item scripts over to the new templates), adding mechanical information from Discord properly linked in the summary to the Discord post so that I can easily verify it and not have to reach out for confirmation from GameMasters, adding information from the forums via Template:Saved-post and Discord via Template:Saved-discord-post to /saved_posts subpages (see style guide for more information), updating or broadening articles to be more comprehensive and new-player-friendly with more internal links and explanatory text, updating the new player guides and adding new ones, adding storyline information and logs to the wiki so that others can catch up and feel engaged in the future, and adding appropriate categories (such as all the new geography categories, which have information on organization and how to use them - and more are coming) to pages that were previously uncategorized or miscategorized. This is what is helpful to readers in general as well as to me. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 10:20, 13 April 2021 (CDT)

I will add, too, that all new articles should only be named CharacterFirstName (instance). There should no longer be any redirect pages created for CharacterFirstName or CharacterFirstName CharacterLastName. If you urgently feel the need to address these legacy pages, you can check "What links here" from each of the pages and convert them all to the appropriate CharacterFirstName (instance) so that eventually the legacy articles could be deleted if the wiki overseer decided that was necessary. At this time, she has not. However, it is my personal opinion that it would be a misuse of time that could be better used to support the wiki in other ways if the player editor has other skills or interests. (I don't mind fixing the double redirects.) MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 10:25, 13 April 2021 (CDT)

Notes

Please use [[Category:Marked for Deletion]] when you would like something deleted. That category is on my weekly check list. If you are not sure if it should be deleted or not, please leave a message on that article's Discussion page in conjunction with marking it for deletion with an explanation for why you think it may need deleted. Thank you. Cross-posted to User:WINTERDAWN. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 09:49, 13 April 2021 (CDT)

Icemule Trace Community Discord

I would like to add a link on the wiki to the Icemule Trace Community Discord, primarily for socialization with the community but also for people to use for storyline discussion. Where, if anywhere, do you recommend this be put? WINTERDAWN (talk) 15:23, 28 April 2021 (CDT)

I have forwarded on this question and am waiting for a reply so that I can answer accurately. Thank you for your patience. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 09:50, 2 May 2021 (CDT)

Defense city subpages

GSMOTTE, I love the work you did for Town defense systems recently in adding individual city Defense pages. I feel like you probably had something specific in mind when you did this, or you would have left the information all together. So I want some help to understand your goals, so I can aim my contributions in the proper direction.

My initial thoughts on how the city pages could be organized:

• Introductory Paragraph/s
• Defense Systems In Use (in THIS CITY) (each system should have a hyperlink back to the Town defense systems article subsection for that type of system, or possibly a transclusion? but the city page should not have "how to operate" the systems generally, that should belong on the Town defense systems page?)
• Defense Maps (if any exist that are applicable to THIS CITY)
• Militia Groups (for THIS CITY) (list main town militia first, followed by MHO groups, then unofficial but well known groups, and lastly, any inactive/historic groups?)
• Defense Catastrophes (in THIS CITY) (example: "In the town's worst disaster, 75% of the town was burned to the ground by tiny green leprechauns in 5097. The city's water supply had been cut off by the enemy, so the defenders were unable to utilize the Bucket Brigade system, resulting in tragedy." etc?)
• Defense Successes (in THIS CITY) (example: "In 5007, several major cities were devastated by a flying spaghetti monster, but <this city>'s defenders were able to keep out the enemy. Helga's kitchen baked two tons of garlic bread topped with Mestanir cheese and the town militia placed mountains of the greasy bread strategically in the wilds near town. The monster hovered near the garlic bread for a long time, allowing time for development of a plan to trap and kill the monster." etc? I know that's a dumb example, but I hope there really ARE some historic good examples of defense strategy which can be spotlighted.)
• Helpful Links (a link to Town defense systems on every city Defense page, as well as any other helpful links pertaining to that city?)

For "defense catastrophes/victories" I am hoping it won't turn into just a list of storyline links, but will be specifically related to the topic of town defense somehow. Battles won because the defense was so good that an invader could not break through before they were killed or repelled. Devastation that left the town only a shadow of its former self, specific major defense mistakes that were made, etc, and hopefully not too long of a list, maybe a top 5? It will take someone really knowledgeable (definitely not me) to really know how to write this kind of thing and it might take a whole team of really knowledgeable people to pick a REALLY SOLID top 5 for each city.

GSMOTTE, please give a bit of direction/correction if you are able, with thoughts/ideas/corrections to my thinking. Also let me know if it is appropriate for me to post a link to your answer here on the wiki-talk Discord channel. Looking forward to input from you and others. Thank you. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 19:29, 27 May 2021 (CDT)

Hello Soliere. First, thank you for your continued work on the GemStone Wiki. It is noticed and appreciated. Second, thank you for reaching out for clarification. I would like to walk you through my thought process. I apologize for the length in advance.

I feel like you probably had something specific in mind when you did this, or you would have left the information all together. -Soliere

I perceived the original page to be hard to navigate as it had some information in the top half about each system and then very scant bulleted-list information below about the systems and locations for some towns. The information had not been completed. This is not a criticism of the original work done on the page. I am appreciative that this information was documented and available.

However, when I tried to retrieve specific information, I struggled with the organization. I carefully considered how this sort of information currently is and could be conveyed on the wiki to be more helpful to users and be consistent with the style guide and how information has been presented before. Therefore, I elected to leave the town defense systems page to indeed be an encyclopedia of sorts of each of the subsystems that are available throughout the game to be used in town defense. On that page, which is now alphabetically ordered by system name, each town system has:

• a generic description of the system which is applicable across towns (with the exception of the crystal defense system as that is only used in Ta'Illistim as far as I know)
• operation instructions (when the information was available)
• ammunition overview (when this is applicable and the information was available)
• frequent questions (that you added, when there is some)

This organizational structure was used to hopefully add understanding for where to find specific information across the different systems. In addition, each of these sections of information had labeled section transclusion added so that this information could also be used to populate individual town defense pages which could go more into detail and only use the information that was relevant for that particular town.

Previously, the town information was scant. There was additionally some information in the town section that was not necessarily available in the above "encyclopedia"-type area. It made for a lot of scrolling up and down when trying to actually use the systems. This leads me to your next question.

So I want some help to understand your goals, so I can aim my contributions in the proper direction

The goals for the moderator position are to communicate clearly and effectively while supporting editors and ensuring existing information on the wiki is appropriate, easy to read, consistent, and follows the style guides and help pages. As such, I took the existing information that was available on the article and began to work with it towards this goal of organizing the information so that it was easier for a player to access what they needed while maintaining consistency and following style guides.

There was existing information on specific systems in Wehnimer's Landing, Ta'Vaalor, Ta'Illistim, and Teras Isle. Icemule only had two items that said "rooftops" and "ballistae," so I did not create a page for it yet as I had nothing of substance to add. My hope was that an editor (like yourself) would come by and create the page and populate the information. I will go ahead and create the page for you as you requested and look forward to seeing your contributions on the pages. Thank you, again, for all of your hard work. If you would like help with adding in the transclusion and the overall skeleton, I am happy to assist. Please leave a comment at Talk:Icemule Trace/Defenses with the systems that are used in Icemule and I will happily set up all of the sections and transclusion for you, so that you can add the specifics.

My initial thoughts on how the city pages could be organized:

When I organized the Wehnimer's Landing page (as it had the most complete information), I asked myself what I would find most useful if I was a player who was trying to interact with the systems in Wehnimer's Landing. I decided that I would not want to have to go back and forth between two different articles while I was in the middle of trying to defend the town. Therefore, I took the labeled section transclusion I used on the main systems page and used it within this page to be an all-in-one shop for the Wehnimer's Landing defender. I set it up like this:

• Introduction with some of the known militia entities including the GM-approved Wehnimer's Landing Militia and the MHOs who have claimed this as their primary reason for existing.
• Individual systems, listed alphabetically each with the following information
  • describes what the system is (transcluded from the main page)
  • provides basic information on how to use it (transcluded from the main page) with links that say "More information is available at town defense systems" when more detailed information is available
  • provides the locations specific to that exact town
  • additional subheaders and blurbs for more town-specific information related to that system if required (such as information on the rooftops and treetops in the Landing)
  • subheader for ammunition if needed
  • describes ammunition when ammunition is required (transcluded from the main page)
  • provides the locations specific to that exact town
• Table of Immobile Defense Information which is sortable so that people can see at a glimpse the location, the systems in use at that location, the directions to get there, and any notes for each tower/stable location.
• See Also with links to additional information that is helpful.
• Maps specific to the town are included on that town's defense page next to the most pertinent or relevant information.

My intent was for a Wehnimer's Landing player (for example) to not get inundated with information about defense systems that are not available in their town: to instead have a one-stop shop for information on THAT town by going to the Wehnimer's Landing Defense page. I used transclusion so that any generic information on the systems could be replicated to all the towns so that only one page (the town defense system page) would need to be updated if the systems changed in some way. When I look at your list above, I am a little confused because I included almost all of those things you list on the Wehnimer's Landing page (which, again, was the only town that had complete information on the wiki for me to work with).

The only things I left out were defense catastrophes and successes, which were not included on the original page and which I also feel would be better served on a different page and linked in the See Also section. Some of this information is available in historical sections of the wiki and also in storylines. If someone wanted to make an article like you suggest, they might be best off transcluding information from existing pages to not have duplication of information across the wiki. This is just me thinking out loud and certainly not indicative of what someone must do.

If you wanted to rearrange the Wehnimer's Landing page to add sections down below for the GM-run Militia and the three MHOs (removing it from the introduction) and then add another section for defense maps, that seems perfectly acceptable to me. I did include the (useful and wonderful) map on the Wehnimer's Landing Defenses page that marked the log traps, ballista towers, and such, which had been on the town defense systems article. If more maps like that exist, they would be wonderful additions to each town's defense page.

I hope that this is helpful. I am certainly not trying to dictate how the article pages must be done, but I wanted to explain what I was thinking and what I did do as it seemed to be what you were requesting. I'm open to modifying any of this to what makes the most sense to the users to meet the goals as I outlined above. Last, I just want to repeat myself and say thank you for all of your hard work and I hope that my actions have been helpful. That is my sole intent. I genuinely appreciate every person who collaborates on this large project.

Please feel free to share this wherever it would be helpful, and please feel free to continue to discuss it with me or point out errors in my thinking. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 15:11, 28 May 2021 (CDT)

GSMOTTE, thank you for your thoughtful response, I had almost forgotten that I asked! It is very helpful to see your thoughts, and it helped me to understand what you are trying to do. I will try to follow your lead and keep the same goals in mind, I think you did a great job! I'm going to get my log of the Icemule town defense information and try to post it for you, like you asked. Thanks so much. FIRENSIA (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2021 (CDT)

PSM3 helpful link for the main official article

I have a suggestion. Can you possibly have this Silverwood Manor link added as a Helpful Resource at the bottom of this PSM3 gswiki page? Thank you for considering it. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 10:42, 26 July 2021 (CDT)

Thank you for your suggestion. I have forwarded it on to the team responsible for that document. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 08:46, 1 August 2021 (CDT)

Mentor Document Location

Hey Motte. Arianiss here. Question for you!

I made a Word document titled "An Introduction to the Confluence" (which is basically a beginners guide to the Confluence hunting ground). The Word document is a full on guide in how the information is laid out.

This was my student project as a Mentor, and so I also created the guide in a way that it can be used in game, and so it doesn't go heavy with OOC wording. I also did actually present this in game so I view it as a project done by my character, although the document itself is in a "player style" format, if that makes sense.

It has this mash up of being a Mentor project, created by a player, for use publicly by a character and trying to stay as IC as possible.

This all said...

Where should I put this? What do I add to the title of the wiki page? Do I need to denote anything about it being a Mentor/Lorekeeper project? Is there an area for those?

So far my thought is "Arianiss (prime)/An Introduction to the Confluence" and then at the top of the page I say "This was created as a Mentor project and delivered in game by Arianiss in an "in character" manner" (or something like that).

Thoughts?

WINTERDAWN (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2021 (CDT)

Thank you for adding your question here. I have reached out to get some answers for you and will update when I have them. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2021 (CDT)

Thank you Motte! I really appreciate your help. I'm also in the process of creating another document "An Introduction to Adventurer's Guild Badges" so that will also need the same treatment as I'm creating it the same way. WINTERDAWN (talk) 02:20, 11 August 2021 (CDT)

Any update on this? No rush, just don't want it to get forgotten (these documents are burning a hole on my hard drive!) WINTERDAWN (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2021 (CDT)

I have received some guidance back about how to handle this situation. Our preference at this time is to treat Mentor events similar to other player events. They are not official in that they have not been through quality control or officially vetted, so they will not receive any official designation and should not confer any special or official designation. These documents should be categorized in [[Category:Order of Lorekeepers]]. They should additionally be categorized by adding [[Category:Logs]], using the Template:Creative-work (which will automatically categorize it as player-content as an essay, poem, short story, or song), or under [[Category:Guides]].

Since they are player-created content, they could either be categorized under the main name space (when appropriate - such as a guide that you want others to be able to edit in the future or such as a log of an event using the style guide formatting), your user name, or your character name at your preference. Logs should continue to follow the style guide rules for article titles as seen here.

I have also added this information to a new page: Help:Order of Lorekeepers. Please let me know if you have any other questions, WINTERDAWN. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 12:43, 26 September 2021 (CDT)

This was immensely helpful, thank you! WINTERDAWN (talk) 14:44, 26 September 2021 (CDT)

Can you please look at this page and give me your thoughts? https://gswiki.play.net/Talk:Introduction_to_the_Confluence

Is it okay? WINTERDAWN (talk) 19:36, 7 October 2021 (CDT)

Mistsheen Annex (Thank You)

Motte, just a note of thanks for how, when I come along and modify something incorrectly, you always are there and fix it promptly. I'm trying to study the fixes you make after my edits, in hopes that I won't cause you so much extra work. Thanks for your patience. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 14:04, 18 September 2021 (CDT)

Thank you, Soliere. That is very kind. Please do not worry about adding anything incorrectly; I am thrilled every time I see an edit. Thank you for every one of your contributions. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 09:24, 19 September 2021 (CDT)

Auction Page

I was toying with the idea of using my personal page to hold in game auctions. People would be making a large number of edits to a single page. I believe the "spam" wouldn't show up because it was just a single page and not multiple pages (until you uncollapsed the listing then you would see a whole bunch of edits, and I suppose it would also throw out of whack the "show me the 50 recent changes"). Does what I'm saying make sense? What are your thoughts on this? WINTERDAWN (talk) 14:10, 21 January 2022 (CST)

I'm not sure what your concern is in regards to the spam. Could you further explain? I'm also not aware of any existing guidelines that would prohibit using your user page as an auction listing, although there may be concerns from the wiki administrators. I recommend e-mailing gs4-wiki@play.net for further questions on that topic. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 11:33, 22 January 2022 (CST)

When you go into RECENT CHANGES and see all the edits. You would constantly see this page being updated, and if you only display the 50 most recent, you might only see this one page. WINTERDAWN (talk) 15:57, 22 January 2022 (CST)

I would recommend reaching out to the gs4-wiki@play.net e-mail address to bring up your concerns and questions on this. Thanks! MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 12:09, 23 January 2022 (CST)

Storyline Event Summaries

I was wondering if we could create a page for people to add short summaries for current events.

Mist Harbor / QST

2022-04-13 -- this stuff happened

Wehnimer's Landing / KST

2022-04-12 -- a lot of stuff happened

2022-04-11 -- more stuff happened

2022-04-10 -- this stuff happened

Icemule / Midweek Mule Train

etc...

What are your thoughts? What would the title of this page be? "Event summaries"?

WINTERDAWN (talk) 11:21, 13 April 2022 (CDT)

Could you explain to me how this is different from what currently exists on the various storyline pages? It seems that already people struggle to update those summaries on the existing storyline pages, and I'm not sure there is a pressing need to do it all on one page (which is what I am interpreting your request to mean). And how is this different from the service the TownCrier already provides with news headlines that showcase events that happen as they happen? I'm not saying yes or no, but I am trying to understand the request. Thank you! MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 21:03, 16 April 2022 (CDT)

Just an all in one spot to get quick summaries on what's going on versus having to check all the storyline pages (which as you said already don't get updated enough). For KST I rely on Leafiara's log page summaries. TownCrier kinda gives short summaries, but I think they're limited by available space so they have to be really short (and just draw you into reading other pages). I want to go to one page and there's all the recent events for the past month or so. WINTERDAWN (talk) 15:50, 17 April 2022 (CDT)

Without one person who is dedicated enough to get it going, I don't see where this will be any different from the storyline pages which are currently already not updated. While I understand what your intent is, if you aren't willing to be the one attending all the events and putting up the summaries (which could then be cross-posted to the appropriate storylines as well), I don't see where this will be successful. Your first step might be trying to find a team that would be willing to help you with this. At that point, then making a page would make sense. Until that point, it doesn't really make sense to create another series of pages which will not be updated. This is my opinion.

However, I think if you were to start this process, it might be best done in a category format with a standard name such as "Monthly Events", "Monthly News", or "Monthly Updates" or something that leads the reader to understand it is about in-world changes for roleplay and stories instead of a mechanical changelog. Then create a page for each month in the format of YYYY-MM using the real world year such as 2022 instead of 5122 followed by the standard name. For example: 2022-05 Monthly Events. Categorize it into the main category.

This also may be something you want to pass by gs4-wiki@play.net. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 08:34, 8 May 2022 (CDT)

Okay, thank you for the thoughts and info on it! WINTERDAWN (talk) 12:25, 8 May 2022 (CDT)

Verb list page

I still have the original copy of the verb page before I changed it. Would it be easier for you if I just copy and paste it back to the original? Thanks. ECHEAUX

Hello ECHEAUX! Thank you so much for offering. It is fairly easy to revert changes, and I do not mind handling it. I appreciate your enthusiasm for working on the wiki. I hope you are not discouraged by these reversions. As a side note, the easy (and preferred) way to sign your name on a wiki talk page is by leaving four tildes ~~~~~ at the end of your message. I hope that helps. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 17:55, 17 September 2022 (CDT)

Ah, it was four. I've been gone a couple of years and couldn't remember. Sorry for the extra work, it won't happen again. ECHEAUX (talk) 17:58, 17 September 2022 (CDT)

I truly do not mind. I appreciate every contributor and what each of you brings to our collaborative project! Things happen sometimes. I look forward to working with you on many things in the future. (And welcome back!) MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 18:02, 17 September 2022 (CDT)

Reversion of player proposals category add to the document archive article

This was originally posted on User talk:GS4ALASTIR.

Hello Alastir! Thank you for your many contributions to the wiki recently, populating Ebon Gate information. We are grateful for your help and support. I wanted to let you know that I rolled back your addition of the Player proposals category to the document archive article. This article contains GameMaster proposals. I felt it may be confusing to people to find the GameMaster proposals in the player proposals category. However, I also understand that you may want to have an easy way to get between the GameMaster and player proposals. Therefore, I'm going to add a blurb to the category text itself with a link. Please let me know if this isn't sufficient and you had another concern in mind to add it. Thanks, again! MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 10:02, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

Knights of the Realm

Hiya, MOD Motte! I was hoping I could pick your brain. I want to keep working on my Knights of the Realm essay as a narrative, but I also want people to be able to modify the knight list. Would there be a way to make a page separately for the list that I can then transclude into my page? (I hope I sent this as a message correctly. It's not very intuitive, and I've forgotten how to do it!)ECHEAUX (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

Thanks for the note, ECHEAUX! I also appreciate all the work you've been doing on the wiki. Thank you for the help and for making our project better for all.

It's a little tricky to both have the Knights of the Realm list and the essay kept as a narrative, but I think we can find a way to make it work. Your essay page can stay as your written notes and creative work, and then we can take the REDIRECT off the Knights of the Realm and put a list there without your narrative notes. Transcluding them to each other would be difficult because then your narrative would no longer make sense as an essay.

You could remove the list portion of the knights from your narrative, and instead keep your essay separate from the list and then reference it as a link, instead expounding on your character's personal experiences with the knights or something similar. That way each page can develop independently of each other, but you could add essay notes as a narrative about the knights to your essay whenever you want.

What do you think? MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 13:04, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

I think that would be fine. I just don't feel right not allowing people to edit what should be an all-inclusive list. Of course, I could be making a thing out of nothing - I tend to do that! Or, could we just make the list that I could then transclude into just the essay? Or does it not work that way? Basically, I just want to do it like deity messaging is done for the Arkati pages - one page with all the knights that I can use to populate my page. This is a little beyond my wheelhouse, so I'm not sure how that works. Also, as the mod, you likely know the best answer: If a character on the list doesn't have a personal page, then they shouldn't be linked (ie [[ ]], right? Red links drive me nuts, but if it should be there, I can put it back. ECHEAUX (talk) 13:11, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

I think you could create a list that you could then transclude into the essay. It's just that if you did so, you would not be able to put notes into the list itself.

I will get back to you on if you must/should delete the red links. Here is what I've said regarding it before: "The common practice has been to link all character names regardless of if they had an existing page with the idea that if the player eventually creates a character page, they will automatically be linked. [...] MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 12:50, 15 April 2021 (CDT)" I have been leaving all character pages and other similar red link pages so that when the page gets created, its automatically linked and we don't have to go back and find every reference to that NPC/character/location (who should have a page) and update them all every time a page is made. It also clues people in to what pages still need to be made. However, I'm not entirely certain that everyone is on the same page with this.MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 14:29, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

I brought the issue of red links to GM Xeraphina. This is what she relayed. In general, please leave red links as they are in any situation where a page or category should be made. For character pages, GM Xeraphina noted it would be better not to link them unless a page has already been made as there is no guarantee a character page will ever be made. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:15, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

Makes sense. I actually made some pages recently because of red links. I'll leave character red links as are, but won't make any that don't need them. ECHEAUX (talk) 20:28, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

"Gold Ring Box" to "Gold ring box"?

Imbue box and Runestone carver and Gold Ring Box are all similar items.. should "Gold Ring Box" be moved to "Gold ring box"? Also, do you think you could check with the GMs and see if the mechanics of it are identical to Imbue/Runestone boxes with regards to how they function? The gold ring box is listed on the PERM-ifier page with the same cost and so I'm heavily certain they're all the same type of item. Thoughts? WINTERDAWN (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2022 (CDT)

SGM Tivvy created that page so I have forwarded on your question about its name. I have also relayed your question about the mechanics, although I'm not sure I completely understand why you are asking it. Some clarification might help so I can understand how I can best help! MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:02, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

So we can just copy/paste the imbue/runestone pages and replace parts with gold ring box info. WINTERDAWN (talk) 21:17, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

Itemtier Template Change

https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Itemtier

Can we change SHOW to Show to match all the other section styles? WINTERDAWN (talk) 17:21, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

GM Xeraphina created that template, so I have forwarded on your question to her. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:02, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

Griffin Sword Saga Memento Pendants

Thin silver crystal pendant

Back in the day we received these pendants that could have 3 different forms. The item is pretty significant as it's a memento of the Griffin Sword Saga events and all 3 forms had different visions (snippets of storyline). It's still just a single item though.

I made a page for the "neutral" form and then a redirect for the Lornon/Liabo forms.

However, do you think maybe we should make a better landing page? "Griffin Sword Saga Memento Pendant" and then list the item there like a proper item page (listing all 3 forms so they're searchable)?

Also, I know this page (and the medallion page I recently created) are heavily barebones. I'm not really wanting to go heavy into making these pages. It's more of "this thing I researched to figure out what it is, let me put it on the wiki to make it easier for others to research in the future." I do have these items though, and so if there's anyone that wants to play with them to add details on the wiki, let me know and I can loan them to you.

WINTERDAWN (talk) 05:31, 18 November 2022 (CST)

Thank you for reaching out. I think that this is a perfectly acceptable article title until a GameMaster comes in and tells us the script name. It looks like ECHEAUX and NAAMIT have done a lot of work to the page as well. Thanks for putting it up on the wiki! MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 15:24, 20 November 2022 (CST)

Okay! So for the title.. "Griffin Sword War Memento Pendant" or "Griffin Sword War memento pendant"? WINTERDAWN (talk) 17:10, 20 November 2022 (CST)

I apologize, WINTERDAWN. I was not clear. I meant that the way you had it set up was fine. Without an analyze with the script name in it, it is better to have the article title be the item description in a situation like this since people would not necessarily remember it was a Griffin Sword War memento pendant. I would just add the three different appearances to the body of the existing article. Along with the redirects, that should work fine to get people where they need to go. Thank you for the collaboration. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 17:14, 20 November 2022 (CST)

Ahh, I gotcha. Okay! :) WINTERDAWN (talk) 17:52, 20 November 2022 (CST)

Verb table standard question

Hiya! I've almost finished with the Category:Scripted Items. Few, if any, had iteminfo template work. I've left some of the ones I wasn't sure about to the end. The one in question is https://gswiki.play.net/Siolan_weapon. I see two reasonable ways of doing the verbs: By tier with a column for weapon, leaving the page with three long tables, or each weapon type done individually with each tier done individually,leaving the page with 12 shorter tables - three for each of the four weapon types. Is one way correct? If so, which one? ECHEAUX (talk) 18:58, 20 November 2022 (CST)

Hey ECHEAUX. Thank you for catching that up for us. It's been on my to-do list for months, and I'm grateful for the help. I have reached out to GM Xeraphina, and I will get back to you when I have a response. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 09:31, 25 November 2022 (CST)

Morning, ECHEAUX. I heard back from GM Xeraphina that this could go either way with three long tables or with 12 shorter tables. I lean towards saying if the tables are feeling excessively long or each tier has important mechanical information or fluff updates other than just verb messaging, break them up by weapon type and tier to have shorter tables so that they are easier for people to digest. In this case, they may be fine as they are. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 08:38, 27 November 2022 (CST)

Page Review Request

https://gswiki.play.net/Listing_of_rulers

Do you think a wiki page like this would be useful at all? WINTERDAWN (talk) 02:22, 8 January 2023 (CST)

Action Taken Regarding Thaumaturge Tome Script

User talk:ALLENM20: Thank you for adding so much information to the Thaumaturge Tome page. Unfortunately, Lich scripts and new pages regarding Lich scripts are not permitted. I have been instructed by the GameMasters to remove this article at Thaumaturge Tome Script in seven days (on April 23, 2023). I want to make sure that you have the opportunity to save this information or move it to an approved script article before the page is permanently deleted. The wiki policy for documenting Lich software is viewable on Help:Style#Lich_information. You will need to get staff approval before creating any new Lich script pages or subpages by contacting the GSWiki email address. (It is perfectly fine to continue to make edits to existing Lich script pages or subpages.)

I will be taking the following steps:

• I am adding a template to the article at Thaumaturge Tome Script noting that it is marked for deletion.
• I will be deleting the article a week from today.
• I am leaving a duplicate note on your user page.

If you have any questions, please let me or another mod know, either via the talk page or by asking on the official Discord server. Thank you for understanding. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 10:08, 16 April 2023 (CDT)

Moving categories with all upper casing to follow the style guide for article titles where only the first word and proper nouns are capitalized.

Does this also apply to categories ending in Creatures, Items, Shops, Spells, Storylines, Templates, etc? GS4XANLIN (talk) 19:21, 8 May 2023 (CDT)

Hi GS4XANLIN. Thank you for your question. We have been directed to convert all the Category titles to fit into the noted capitalization pattern where only the first word or proper nouns are capitalized. It is a huge undertaking, with years of the common practice being to capitalize all words in the Category title, resulting in many changes to be made in the backlog. However, that practice was changed (although the style guide does not capture that currently) per GMs so that Category and Article titles will fall under the same capitalization rules. It is slowgoing, but we are working on it a little at a time. I hope that this answers your question. Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do for the wiki. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 21:52, 16 May 2023 (CDT)

Are you using any automation tools or bots to process these tasks? GS4XANLIN (talk) 16:49, 19 May 2023 (CDT)

This is an excellent question; I am not. If you have suggestions, I recommend contacting gs4-wiki@play.net, as I have no decision-making ability or individual power. I would not be able to use something like that without direction given by the GameMasters in charge. Thank you for being so interested - and again, thank you for all your work. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:15, 21 May 2023 (CDT)

Image Patrols

Cross-posted from user talk page. Hello ELADAMRI! I enjoyed learning more about your character through your wiki uploads. Thank you for sharing with us. I noticed that your images File:EladarmiStorvald.png and File:Asrai.png are not currently in compliance with the wiki policy located at Gswiki:Policy#Copyrights. Please add the following information to the file pages and the captions of the images on any pages they are used on (excluding header images) regarding:

• who the copyright holder is, if there is one
• whether or not AI created the artwork, and if so which program and credit to the person/user who prompted the creation (even if yourself)
• permission - if you are not the copyright holder, indicate that you have permission granted to upload, even if it is AI artwork

Because this is a policy violation, we provide you seven days to update both the file pages with the above information and the captions on any pages on which the files are used. After that, the images are subject to removal. We appreciate your understanding as we comply with policy and help to protect artists. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 11:50, 28 July 2023 (CDT)

Character page: Severine

Cross-posted from user talk page: Hello ELADAMRI! When I was reviewing your edits to Severine, I noticed that:

• It has been created for a player's character in GemStone IV prime. Following Help:Character pages, this would then need to be titled 'Severine (prime)' instead of just 'Severine'.
• It is unclear if the account ELADAMRI owns the character Severine. If ELADAMRI is not the owner of the character Severine, Severine's player needs to add permission for ELADAMRI to (1) create and/or (2) edit their character's page.
• The page has been completely blanked and has no available information. This may have been done because you wished the article would be deleted. In that case, please use the template {{delete}} to request us to delete this page.

Since we are not sure of your intent with this page or if you are the owner of the character Severine, we are going to give you seven days to clear up these issues either by a reply on the article in question's talk page (Talk:Severine), a reply on your user talk page (User talk:ELADAMRI), or a reply on my talk page (User talk:MOD-GSMOTTE). Please either let us know if you own the character Severine, have Severine permit the account ELADAMRI to create this character page via a note left on (Talk:Severine_(prime)), or if you would like the page to be deleted (add {{delete}} to the edit box of the article Severine).

If we do not hear from you by August 4, 2023, we will be putting the delete template on this page and it will be deleted on August 11, 2023.

I hope that you are not discouraged by these requests for minor changes. We appreciate your additions to the wiki. Please let us know if we can help in any way. That's what we are here for!

MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 15:15, 28 July 2023 (CDT)