User talk:ECHEAUX

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Feel free to post mistakes I make here as opposed to Discord. It will be easier for me to follow here.

Thanks so much for your work on all the item pages! You're doing an amazing amount of stuff. WBURKE1 (talk)

Hey, just wanted to give some mad props, and thanks, for all the item page updates you've been making! CLTIDBALL (talk) 10:28, 15 November 2022 (CST)

Just a thank you for all your work on Latchable Rooms. Your additions look awesome, and the wording changes for overall consistency were most helpful. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 04:45, 23 October 2019 (CDT)

Thanks so much for all the work you're putting into the verb pages! CLTIDBALL (talk) 17:39, 20 November 2019 (CST)

I so very much appreciate your work on Latchable room, the new changes are excellent, including the title mod/redirect to make it standard with naming conventions on gswiki. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 03:01, 23 December 2019 (CST)

I hope you do not tire of my thanks. I don't notice everything you do, but happened to notice this morning where you came behind me on AdventureWear and removed some unneeded blockquotes and one bit of extraneous code, and I really appreciate the time you spend doing things like this where needed. I had almost removed (rather than fixed the unmatched pairs of) the blockquotes, but was not sure if I was right or not to do so. I think the article is much better now that you made the fix. Thanks again. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 12:26, 31 December 2019 (CST)

Line breaks other than <br>

You had asked on your main User page: Is there an existing template - other than {{log2}} that can be used to add line breaks more efficiently than <br>?

style guide answer

For log files that are ONLY the complete log itself, the log2 template is to be used, and with particular settings, according to the style guide here: Help:Style#Logs


log3 template
Generally used for:
-- complete event logs, sometimes
example: G'bruk and trolls (log) and Ties That Bind medal ceremony (log) and The Citadel's last stand (log) and Forest gnome clothing (log)
opening tag: <pre{{log3}}>


log2 template
Generally used for:
-- "log snippets" such as Coup de Grace and Lock Mastery and Lesser demon/saved posts and Policy
-- small bits of a log interspersed within a larger article (adds clarity by causing log text to stand out from the actual article text, by way of a different background color and traditional monospaced log font) (my guess is that it also makes for less eye strain and easier reading for folks with eye or concentration problems, which is why I used only log2 in my work so far, such as for buildings whose rooms are not shops and thus can not use the {{NPC Shops}} template, like Urgaen's Pawnshop and the other Pawnshops)
-- when showing the Usage and Syntax of a Verb, such as Loresinging
-- "signs" posted inside event shops, such as Briarmoon Cove/shop list
-- spell messaging, such as Curse_(715)#Messaging
-- cases like this, though I am unsure of what you call a case like this, where information is being pulled from some other page and listed inside of a log2 template but not editable (maybe a transclusion? i hear that word sometimes, but truly am not sure what it is): Premium home furniture
-- i believe the log2 template was possibly formerly used in shop listings (the results of "ORDER" listed as they appear in a log, followed by a table of "extra info" about items sold, when appropriate), however, this use has been replaced by the template {{NPC Shops}} in its field called |inventory=
example: the log snippets here: The Nazhor Chronicles/Chapter One/2019-03-03 Arrival of Socius (log) and Those Aren't Tears/2018-08-27 Penre Peddles (log)
opening tag: <pre{{log2}}>

log2 tweaked

log2 template with some tweaks
Generally used for:
-- occasionally used, but most people have seemed to use plain "log2" and plain "log3"
-- note that I have never seen a pink background on gswiki, but have used pink here to show the many possibilities of customizing the log2 template because you asked about different ways etc. one really only needs the log2 template to achieve a variety of effects. log2 template can even be made to appear identical to the log3 template by a simple change in the settings for log2.
examples showing how this tag can be customized in different ways are here (Template:Log2) and below
opening tag: <pre{{log2|font-size=100%|background=pink|border=on|font=Times New Roman|margin-right=50%}}>
example 1 of log2 template with some tweaks
note that this example shows log2 looking exactly like log3
example 1: The Broken Lands and ki-lin: Part 2 (log) and Orrisian speaks about the Chronomage obelisk in Danjirland (log) 
opening tag:<pre{{log2|font-size=100%|background=white|border=none|font=arial|margin-right=10%}}>
example 2 of log2 template with some tweaks
example 2: Fehala's Imaera commune (log)
example 2 opening tag: <pre{{log2|background=none|border=none}}>
example 3 of log2 template with some tweaks
example 3: Interfaith Luncheon (log) and Brieson discusses the history of the Ilvari (log) and Unarmed combat advice (log) and How to Win Bardfest (log) and Paidreg's return (log)
example 3 opening tag: .<pre{{log2|font=arial|border=none}}>


log template (this log template has been retired and is not usable any longer), example: Template:Log, opening tag: <div{{log}}>, and in this template, you still needed to use either double-spaced lines or <br> tags for single-spaced lines, to show line breaks

double-spaced text

When a log is double-spaced, it appears to not need the <br> tags. Just thought it worth a mention.

examples: Host Forum (log) and Court dances of New Ta'Faendryl (log) and Mentor style class (log)

paragraphs with a space at the beginning

By adding one space before the beginning of a paragraph, you get this type of formatting. I'm not sure why. But have seen this used when log bits interspersed within an article do not have line breaks in them. I know you asked about line breaks in particular, but just thought this was worth noting. example: snippets at the bottom of the summary section near the top here: The Nazhor Chronicles/Chapter One/2019-03-03 Arrival of Socius (log)

other notes

An important thing to keep in mind is that sometimes an author had a particular purpose in mind when using a non-standard log format. Often on a discussion page they will mention why they did something differently, and often for very good reason (a GM requested it, etc). So even though you may want to vary from log2 template, it may not be a good thing to do so unless a GM has told you to do something different, etc. One thing that bugs me about people who use a black-on-white nonstandard template like log3, is that black-on-white contributes to eyestrain.

There is one other log template I have seen, but I could not find it yet. I will let you know when I do.

Hope this helps. Feel free to delete/keep/modify my message here once you have seen it. -Soliere FIRENSIA (talk) 10:20, 23 December 2019 (CST)

Knights of the Realm

Hello! I have responded here: User_talk:MOD-GSMOTTE#Knights_of_the_Realm. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 13:04, 9 October 2022 (CDT)

Hello ECHEAUX! I have responded regarding red links here: User_talk:MOD-GSMOTTE#Knights_of_the_Realm MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 20:17, 29 October 2022 (CDT)

Merchant NPC Pages

Hi, ECHEAUX. Thank you for your many contributions to the wiki! Getting a lot of the information related to the ongoing Ebon Gate festival out there while it is still running is a big help to other players. Just as a head's up, I have reverted some of the updates you made to various merchant NPC pages. These are largely restricted to where historical information was removed, such as festival venues or various towns where the merchants have worked. I wanted to drop you a note to explain why those changes were reverted so that you weren't surprised by them.

I also have a question regarding the recent updates that you made to Template:Merchants and related updates to various merchant NPC pages. Looking at the template, it seems like the "venue" section is now much more restricted than before, limited to only a very small list of festivals instead of being more free form as it was in the past. Is that intended or just an oversight? We have so many different festival venues that limiting which ones the template could be used for seems counterproductive, especially if it means that historical information is not preserved. It also looks like you have added a "town" as a new section, which can only have one entry. Is "town" intended to be the merchant's home town? Or is it intended to be the town they most often work in among the various towns they frequent? Thank you for any insight you can offer. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 10:56, 26 October 2022 (CDT)

I sent a message entitled Merchants template to your talk page. I wasn't sure if responding here would give you the "you have a message" banner, and I wanted to be sure you got it. ECHEAUX (talk) 12:29, 26 October 2022 (CDT)
Thank you very much for the detailed response regarding the merchants template! I have relayed what you shared with the wiki team. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:43, 8 November 2022 (CST)

Marked for Deletion

Hi ECHEAUX! I saw that you blanked the page EGShop:The_Beer_Hall. Please categorize articles with Category:Marked for Deletion when you believe something should be deleted. That category is on my weekly check list. If you are not sure if it should be deleted or not, please leave a message on that article's Discussion page in conjunction with marking it for deletion with an explanation for why you think it may need deleted. Thank you. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 11:37, 6 November 2022 (CST)

Table updates

Hi, ECHEAUX! I have responded to your question about table updates on my user talk page. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2022 (CST)

Verb table standard question

Hey ECHEAUX! I just wanted to let you know that I replied at my talk page. MOD-GSMOTTE (talk) 08:39, 27 November 2022 (CST)


This is a copy of an email I sent to feedback in 2019 regarding the discontinued use of the term "cashmere". The email went unanswered but I've decided to archive it here.


I would like to ask that someone reconsider the stance on cashmere.

It's my understanding that cashmere is considered verboten because the name stems from a real-world animal named after a real-world place; in this case, cashmere goats and the Himalayan region of Kashmir. It's also been stated that it was replaced with paeline, an in-game name given to the wool woven from the hair of Paeladri goats.

There are numerous other items in Elanthia with names that are based on real-world places, animals, or people. Several materials that come to mind and were sold at recent festivals include:

Angora wool - probably the best example, angora was named after the Angora rabbit, which in turn was named after the historical name for the capital of Turkey which was Angora.

Worsted wool - developed in Worstead, England

Jacquard - named after a loom invented by Joseph Marie Jacquard in 1804 (conversely, the term cashmere is centuries old)

Damask - derived from the city of Damascus, a city active in the trade and manufacture of damask

Tweed - a mistake of sorts, legend has it that tweed was originally tweel (the Scottish variant of twill). A clerk miswrote the word as tweed, possibly thinking it was named after the Tweed river, a river that runs through the Scottish textile region

Lawn - a type of linen whose name was derived from Laon, France, a city ostensibly responsible for the manufacture of lawn linen.

Another material, pashmina, was sold as a cobbling material at Ebon Gate 2019; pashmina itself is a type of cashmere wool sheared from the Changthangi, known now as the pashmina goat.

Most items in-game are inextricably linked to real-world names. The nature of some of those items - say, champagne (named after the Champagne region of France) - are so ingrained with the item that they've become that item; there just is no other name for them. I believe that this is also the case with cashmere. Cashmere simply is cashmere; as fabric, it has become a distinct entity and is as irreplaceable as champagne.

Certainly, paeline is an excellent addition to the game, but is there not room for both?

Thank you,

Kristen, aka Aleid

Works in Progress

Hi there, ECHEAUX. I am slowly working through patrols of item script page updates, which I know you focused heavily on late last year. It looks like on several of them, mostly ones from October and November, you included the work-in-progress template to indicate you are still working on the pages, however many of them do not appear to have any recent updates in the past month+. While I don't believe these are all of them, they include AYRWT?, Flask belt, Ritualistic tool, and a few others that look like they were from last year's Ebon Gate festival. Are you still actively working on some of these pages? If not, I'll remove the WIP template as I do the patrols to let other users know they are open for editing again. Thanks again for everything you do to help add to the wiki! HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:29, 10 January 2023 (CST)

My apologies. I looked into them with the intent to complete them but was unable to gather more information. Do you know if there is a way to access only WIP templated items created by an individual user (in this case, myself)? Or, would I be better served by making a list on my page of things I've planned to work on?ECHEAUX (talk) 10:57, 10 January 2023 (CST)
Quite alright! I completely understand getting pulled in different direction with many projects, and I know that you have been handling a very large number of item pages. (You're also far from the only one who has put up a WIP banner on a page and then not returned to continue edits in the weeks following.) I am not aware of any way to easily view a list of pages that you have edited that use a specific template, like the WIP banner, or that put pages in a certain category. Normally I would suggest viewing your contributions list (Special:Contributions/ECHEAUX, which is also found by clicking on "Contributions" at the top of the Wiki next to "Log Out"), but since you have edited so many pages in recent months, that wouldn't be at all feasible. Instead, I recommend reviewing Category:Works_In_Progress for any pages that look familiar to you as ones that you intended to go back to again. If you are still working on some of them, it's perfectly fine, I mostly wanted to tie up any loose ends! HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 11:05, 10 January 2023 (CST)
I think I got all but four removed. I started a [User:ECHEAUX#My_WIPs|WIP list]] for myself on my user page and will complete the remainder this week.ECHEAUX (talk) 11:56, 10 January 2023 (CST)

Page Moves

Hi, ECHEAUX. I noticed that when you set up the item script page for the Grooming locket, you did so by moving one of your test/sandbox pages with a substantial edit history to the current page. In doing so, that also had the the effect of moving the entire page history for your test page, which included a large number of edits stemming from when you were testing out formatting for other item scripts unrelated to the Grooming locket. While the wiki team is very glad that you're using your test/sandbox pages to try out new things, the best practice in this instance would be to just cut and paste the source code from your test page into a newly created item page instead of moving it from your sandbox if there are unrelated edits in the test page's history. I know that you're very well versed in wiki use at this point, but if you'd like, I can help with that process for the Grooming locket page. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 09:49, 7 February 2023 (CST)

I presume the best course of action at this point is to just delete the page "Grooming locket" and make it again. It's a temporary name, actually, if you'd rather help me think of a new name and create a new page. I've got a copy of the locket info in notepad++, so whichever is best.ECHEAUX (talk) 11:46, 7 February 2023 (CST)
Thanks for the response, ECHEAUX, and I'm sorry I missed you before I went offduty yesterday. Since you indicated you were likely fine with not saving the test page's edit history, I have gone ahead and deleted the original "Grooming locket" article and recreated it with the text of your most recent version instead of moving it to a text page. HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk) 08:56, 8 February 2023 (CST)