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{{saved-post|category=Suggestions & Ideas for Improvement (2)|topic=Suggestions, Gripes & Whines (4)|messagenum=10798|subject=Re: Treasure|author=GS3-ISSIGRI@play.net (Issigri)|date=Jan 4, 1999 at 18:13}}
{{saved-post|category=Suggestions & Ideas for Improvement (2)|topic=Suggestions, Gripes & Whines (4)|messagenum=10798|subject=Re: Treasure|author=GS3-ISSIGRI@play.net (Issigri)|date=Jan 4, 1999 at 18:13}}


Ok, if this isn't the famed new treasure system, it's one hell of a bug.. today, reports of creatures suddenly going on welfare have swept the lands, ages of critters ranging from the ST to pyrothags and devils. I hunted pyrothags for two hours, and got two boxes, each weighing 11 pounds. Not A SINGLE coin, and one 1k gem.
Ok, if this isn't the famed new [[treasure system]], it's one hell of a bug.. today, reports of creatures suddenly going on welfare have swept the lands, ages of critters ranging from the ST to [[Massive pyrothag|pyrothag]]s and [[sand devil|devils]]. I hunted pyrothags for two hours, and got two [[box]]es, each weighing 11 pounds. Not A SINGLE coin, and one 1k gem.


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I really loath giving an example, but one in the castle isn't that bad since it's overall harder to get too. If I don't, everyone is going to think every critter is poor now.
I really loath giving an example, but one in the castle isn't that bad since it's overall harder to get too. If I don't, everyone is going to think every critter is poor now.


Troll Kings. The old treasure chance was this:
[[Massive troll king|Troll King]]s. The old treasure chance was this:


10% chance of chest with lvl 4 treasure, or:
::10% chance of chest with lvl 4 treasure, or:
20% chance of an item
::20% chance of an item
0 - 320 silvers
::0 - 320 silvers
54% chance of a gem type 0 - 5
::54% chance of a gem type 0 - 5


Right now a troll king's treasure is this:
Right now a troll king's treasure is this:


[CrtrTreasureTrax|s133] a massive troll king [1059] searched, 3
::[CrtrTreasureTrax|s133] a massive troll king [1059] searched, 3 is returned as the modifier
⚫
::[Base treasure level: 5]
is returned as the modifier
[Base treasure level: 5]
::[Adjusted treasure level: 8]
::[11% chance for chest, D100:70]
⚫
[Adjusted treasure level: 8]
[11% chance for chest, D100:70]
::[35% chance for silvers, D100:6] It had 559 silvers on it. You gather the remaining 559 coins.
[35% chance for silvers, D100:6] It had 559 silvers on it. You
::[60% chance for a gem, D100:39] It had a green sapphire on it!
⚫
::[30% chance for an item, D100:22] Interesting, it carried a small statue with it. It had nothing else of value.
gather the remaining 559 coins.
[60% chance for a gem, D100:39] It had a green sapphire on it!
⚫
[30% chance for an item, D100:22] Interesting, it carried a small
statue with it. It had nothing else of value.


For anyone that wonders what GMs see, the above is a straight capture. ;)
For anyone that wonders what [[GameMaster|GM]]s see, the above is a straight capture. ;)


The chance of finding a chest has increased. The level of chest found has increased dramitically when one IS found. Silvers now range more than double (800 actually) what it was before carried on the King. The chance of finding a gem is 6% higher. On a found gem you will actually have a better chance at a better gem since you get a random roll for a gem for 0 to 8 here, and since 6 is the maximum gem level, on a 6, 7, or 8, you get a level 6 gem. There is a 10% better chance of finding an item.
The chance of finding a chest has increased. The level of chest found has increased dramatically when one IS found. [[Silver]]s now range more than double (800 actually) what it was before carried on the King. The chance of finding a gem is 6% higher. On a found gem you will actually have a better chance at a better gem since you get a random roll for a gem for 0 to 8 here, and since 6 is the maximum gem level, on a 6, 7, or 8, you get a level 6 gem. There is a 10% better chance of finding an item.


I've looked at a lot of critters, and those underhunted ones have really gone up. There are also a number of players right now quietly chalking up wealth from critters, and keeping clammed up about it so no one else overruns them. :)
I've looked at a lot of critters, and those underhunted ones have really gone up. There are also a number of players right now quietly chalking up wealth from critters, and keeping clammed up about it so no one else overruns them. :)


Tracking was reset early this morning, and this was started this afternoon. What this means is that for a little while, there is going to be fairly quick flucuations as people swarm underhunted creatures, bringing them back down, and then find another one. We have enough hunting in GemStone though that after a week at most, things are going to even out. Once it does, I can take a harder look at the lower critters to see if the low-end needs adjusting, and vice-versa.
Tracking was reset early this morning, and this was started this afternoon. What this means is that for a little while, there is going to be fairly quick fluctuations as people swarm underhunted creatures, bringing them back down, and then find another one. We have enough hunting in GemStone though that after a week at most, things are going to even out. Once it does, I can take a harder look at the lower critters to see if the low-end needs adjusting, and vice-versa.


Remember the lowest level critters aren't affected down as much. A kobold is severely overhunted, and carries a -3 mod right now. You can't go below the 1 it starts with, so it's still 1. It is harder to find a gem or item now. You still find to 100 loose silvers though, and there is actually twice the chance of finding a chest with the new system compared to the old.
Remember the lowest level critters aren't affected down as much. A [[kobold]] is severely overhunted, and carries a -3 mod right now. You can't go below the 1 it starts with, so it's still 1. It is harder to find a gem or item now. You still find to 100 loose silvers though, and there is actually twice the chance of finding a chest with the new system compared to the old.


Ghosts on the other hand is where that 3 currently went, and they carry level 4 treasure. Any young clerics with hold should rush over there. ;) Though it isn't in yet, counting a critter like a ghost that can only generate treasure with a successful hold and search, will only count toward the kills when that happens, and not every time one is killed. It was one of the player suggestions from a cleric that was concerned their treasure level would be much lowered from Voln hunters.
[[Ghost]]s on the other hand is where that 3 currently went, and they carry level 4 treasure. Any young clerics with hold should rush over there. ;) Though it isn't in yet, counting a critter like a ghost that can only generate treasure with a successful hold and search, will only count toward the kills when that happens, and not every time one is killed. It was one of the player suggestions from a cleric that was concerned their treasure level would be much lowered from [[Voln]] hunters.


The wealth hasn't poofed, it's just moved, and will continue moving around as people over and under hunt critters. If it's a critter that doesn't have any other critter in the few levels around it that also carries treasure, to compare itself too, then no matter how much it's hunted, it's treasure level can't go down.
The wealth hasn't poofed, it's just moved, and will continue moving around as people over and under hunt critters. If it's a critter that doesn't have any other critter in the few levels around it that also carries treasure, to compare itself too, then no matter how much it's hunted, it's treasure level can't go down.
Line 52: Line 49:
2. Will the critter skin prices be adjusted soon, too?
2. Will the critter skin prices be adjusted soon, too?


3. How are the few special critters that require extra preception to find extra treasure affected? You mentioned that there was a consideration for repelling (not holding :P) clerics. Why not make a consideration for the more preceptive hunters?
3. How are the few special critters that require extra [[perception]] to find extra treasure affected? You mentioned that there was a consideration for repelling (not holding :P) clerics. Why not make a consideration for the more preceptive hunters?


I hope you'll respond to #1 :)
I hope you'll respond to #1 :)
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1> Yes. Creatures that don't gen as fast, can't be killed as fast, so will get a higher return. The thing is though that player population has an affect on creature generation, so when the treasure level goes up, it attracts more players, more creatures are genned and killed, and the treasure level goes back down again. What will happen in the long run is the harder/slower to kill/slower genning creature, will prolly get a bonus of 1, where the easier/faster to kill/faster genning creature, will get a -1 to balance it out. The treasure is the bonus to players who choose not to take a path of least resistance for experience.
1> Yes. Creatures that don't gen as fast, can't be killed as fast, so will get a higher return. The thing is though that player population has an affect on creature generation, so when the treasure level goes up, it attracts more players, more creatures are genned and killed, and the treasure level goes back down again. What will happen in the long run is the harder/slower to kill/slower genning creature, will prolly get a bonus of 1, where the easier/faster to kill/faster genning creature, will get a -1 to balance it out. The treasure is the bonus to players who choose not to take a path of least resistance for experience.


2> We're going to do something similar with skins too. With that change, also have flucuations for quality of skins, and that determined by skinning success/skill. Empaths and Rangers will be the ones that will benefit most from that because of their normal skills. Any player that wants to train for that though, would benefit.
2> We're going to do something similar with [[skin]]s too. With that change, also have fluctuations for quality of skins, and that determined by skinning success/skill. [[Empath]]s and [[Ranger]]s will be the ones that will benefit most from that because of their normal skills. Any player that wants to train for that though, would benefit.


3> If a creature has it's own unique way of finding certain treasure on it, then it wouldn't be affected by the new system. If there's a critter for instance that perception helps to find a twingdoodle on it, that's on the creature's script. Even if it calls the normal treasure generation scripts after, one doesn't affect the other.
3> If a creature has it's own unique way of finding certain treasure on it, then it wouldn't be affected by the new system. If there's a critter for instance that perception helps to find a twingdoodle on it, that's on the creature's script. Even if it calls the normal treasure generation scripts after, one doesn't affect the other.



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Posted: Jan 04, 1999 19:41:42 -->
Posted: Jan 04, 1999 19:41:42 -->


Another question: What about critters that are fairly difficult for their age. In the old system, the difficulty was compensated by their large amounts of treasure. Now it seems there is no reason to hunt an extremely difficult creature. I'm hoping that the treasure on these types will go back up as less people hunt them, but as of right now, it certainly hasn't. I'm refering to arch wights in particular. They used to carry 2-4k in silvers in a box, and many wights had 100-300 silver on them. Now, most I've found was 58 silver on one, and less than 200 in a box. Considering how dangerous their boils and clouds can be, it hardly seems worth the trouble. And one more thing, places like Icemule have little choice in critter variety. If you're a set age, you have two or three things to hunt. Right now, all of them are poor, so do you really want to drive people out of town just because the hunting areas are overcrowded?
Another question: What about critters that are fairly difficult for their age. In the old system, the difficulty was compensated by their large amounts of treasure. Now it seems there is no reason to hunt an extremely difficult creature. I'm hoping that the treasure on these types will go back up as less people hunt them, but as of right now, it certainly hasn't. I'm referring to [[arch wight]]s in particular. They used to carry 2-4k in silvers in a box, and many wights had 100-300 silver on them. Now, most I've found was 58 silver on one, and less than 200 in a box. Considering how dangerous their boils and clouds can be, it hardly seems worth the trouble. And one more thing, places like Icemule have little choice in critter variety. If you're a set age, you have two or three things to hunt. Right now, all of them are poor, so do you really want to drive people out of town just because the hunting areas are overcrowded?


---------------
---------------
Line 83: Line 79:
Arch wights are underhunted?
Arch wights are underhunted?


170 21 - "an Arachne servant"
::170 21 - "an [[Arachne servant]]"


2875 20 - "an arch wight" Undead
::2875 20 - "an arch wight" Undead


526 18 - "a storm giant"
::526 18 - "a [[storm giant]]"


953 20 - "a frost giant"
::953 20 - "a [[frost giant]]"


1102 20 - "a steel golem"
::1102 20 - "a [[steel golem]]"


That's a current example of some critters around it. The only thing killed more that's 10 levels either side if an arch wight are a wraith and warfarer.
That's a current example of some critters around it. The only thing killed more that's 10 levels either side if an arch wight are a [[wraith]] and [[krolvin warfarer]].


Arch wights are way overhunted because they were rich, and a target for cash hunters which got no experience for them, they could be killed in one or two strokes, and grab the cash. Since this just started, they were being overhunted, the treasure dropped. As soon as those that were only hunting them for treasure go elsewhere because they are no longer so attractive, it will go back up because it is a hard critter to kill for it's level.
Arch wights are way overhunted because they were rich, and a target for cash hunters which got no experience for them, they could be killed in one or two strokes, and grab the cash. Since this just started, they were being overhunted, the treasure dropped. As soon as those that were only hunting them for treasure go elsewhere because they are no longer so attractive, it will go back up because it is a hard critter to kill for it's level.


As for the other towns. Those old poor critters aren't poor anymore. Monkeys have always been poor, as with many other RR critters. Right now, they're a goldmine. This system has to cause migration to those other towns now, that was the biggest reason for it, to spread player populations out, instead of having them fight crowds those selected wealthy critters in hordes. It's kinda sad because River's Rest was such a nice place. :) The current residents there complained about lack of treasure though, and whether it was just flat out added there, or if it was done with this adjusting treasure system, it was going to bring crowds either way. People follow money.
As for the other towns. Those old poor critters aren't poor anymore. [[Monkey]]s have always been poor, as with many other RR critters. Right now, they're a goldmine. This system has to cause migration to those other towns now, that was the biggest reason for it, to spread player populations out, instead of having them fight crowds those selected wealthy critters in hordes. It's kinda sad because [[River's Rest]] was such a nice place. :) The current residents there complained about lack of treasure though, and whether it was just flat out added there, or if it was done with this adjusting treasure system, it was going to bring crowds either way. People follow money.


Overall though this will mean the less populated the town, the less hunting pressure it will see, so will be higher bearing in treasure compared to more populated towns. I think the smaller towns will always level out to be less populated, so after this levels out, those in the small towns will be better off as far as treasure.
Overall though this will mean the less populated the town, the less hunting pressure it will see, so will be higher bearing in treasure compared to more populated towns. I think the smaller towns will always level out to be less populated, so after this levels out, those in the small towns will be better off as far as treasure.
Line 104: Line 100:


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{{saved-post
|category=Magic Spells and Systems
|topic=Developer's Corner - Spell Systems
|subject=Raise Dead (318) and Treasure
|messagenum=1436
|author=GS4-ESTILD
|date= 11/9/2007 7:51:48 PM
}}
[[Raise Dead (318)]] has been removed from randomly generated [[treasure system|treasure]] ([[scrolls]], magical items, etc.), but it's not prohibited for special releases.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." - Michel de Montaigne

-----
{{saved-post
|category=Magic Spells and Systems
|topic=Developer's Corner - Spell Systems
|subject=Teasure: Magical Items.
|messagenum=1572
|author=GS4-ESTILD
|date= 11/12/2007 8:28:38 PM
}}
The following spells have been added to the random treasure generator: [[Mass Interference (217)]], [[Divine Wrath (319)]], [[Empathy (1108)]], [[Wither (1115)]], and [[Cry for Help (1116)]].

GameMaster Estild
[[Cleric]]/[[Empath]] Team

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." - Michel de Montaigne

[[Category:Basic Mechanics]]

Revision as of 01:15, 21 June 2008

Category: Suggestions & Ideas for Improvement (2)
Topic: Suggestions, Gripes & Whines (4)
Message #: 10798
Author: GS3-ISSIGRI@play.net (Issigri)
Date: Jan 4, 1999 at 18:13
Subject: Re: Treasure


Ok, if this isn't the famed new treasure system, it's one hell of a bug.. today, reports of creatures suddenly going on welfare have swept the lands, ages of critters ranging from the ST to pyrothags and devils. I hunted pyrothags for two hours, and got two boxes, each weighing 11 pounds. Not A SINGLE coin, and one 1k gem.

Well, you note you realize it may be the new treasure system. What was the new treasure system specifically going to do? After two hours you didn't think to try some odd critters?

I really loath giving an example, but one in the castle isn't that bad since it's overall harder to get too. If I don't, everyone is going to think every critter is poor now.

Troll Kings. The old treasure chance was this:

10% chance of chest with lvl 4 treasure, or:
20% chance of an item
0 - 320 silvers
54% chance of a gem type 0 - 5

Right now a troll king's treasure is this:

[CrtrTreasureTrax|s133] a massive troll king [1059] searched, 3 is returned as the modifier
[Base treasure level: 5]
[Adjusted treasure level: 8]
[11% chance for chest, D100:70]
[35% chance for silvers, D100:6] It had 559 silvers on it. You gather the remaining 559 coins.
[60% chance for a gem, D100:39] It had a green sapphire on it!
[30% chance for an item, D100:22] Interesting, it carried a small statue with it. It had nothing else of value.

For anyone that wonders what GMs see, the above is a straight capture. ;)

The chance of finding a chest has increased. The level of chest found has increased dramatically when one IS found. Silvers now range more than double (800 actually) what it was before carried on the King. The chance of finding a gem is 6% higher. On a found gem you will actually have a better chance at a better gem since you get a random roll for a gem for 0 to 8 here, and since 6 is the maximum gem level, on a 6, 7, or 8, you get a level 6 gem. There is a 10% better chance of finding an item.

I've looked at a lot of critters, and those underhunted ones have really gone up. There are also a number of players right now quietly chalking up wealth from critters, and keeping clammed up about it so no one else overruns them. :)

Tracking was reset early this morning, and this was started this afternoon. What this means is that for a little while, there is going to be fairly quick fluctuations as people swarm underhunted creatures, bringing them back down, and then find another one. We have enough hunting in GemStone though that after a week at most, things are going to even out. Once it does, I can take a harder look at the lower critters to see if the low-end needs adjusting, and vice-versa.

Remember the lowest level critters aren't affected down as much. A kobold is severely overhunted, and carries a -3 mod right now. You can't go below the 1 it starts with, so it's still 1. It is harder to find a gem or item now. You still find to 100 loose silvers though, and there is actually twice the chance of finding a chest with the new system compared to the old.

Ghosts on the other hand is where that 3 currently went, and they carry level 4 treasure. Any young clerics with hold should rush over there. ;) Though it isn't in yet, counting a critter like a ghost that can only generate treasure with a successful hold and search, will only count toward the kills when that happens, and not every time one is killed. It was one of the player suggestions from a cleric that was concerned their treasure level would be much lowered from Voln hunters.

The wealth hasn't poofed, it's just moved, and will continue moving around as people over and under hunt critters. If it's a critter that doesn't have any other critter in the few levels around it that also carries treasure, to compare itself too, then no matter how much it's hunted, it's treasure level can't go down.


Category: Suggestions & Ideas for Improvement (2)
Topic: Suggestions, Gripes & Whines (4)
Message #: 10807
Author: GS3-ISSIGRI@play.net (Issigri)
Date: Jan 4, 1999 at 19:09
Subject: Re: Treasure


1. The number of kills determines the treasure, right? So if an area has a really really slow Gen rate, the critters will be richer?

2. Will the critter skin prices be adjusted soon, too?

3. How are the few special critters that require extra perception to find extra treasure affected? You mentioned that there was a consideration for repelling (not holding :P) clerics. Why not make a consideration for the more preceptive hunters?

I hope you'll respond to #1 :)

- AM

1> Yes. Creatures that don't gen as fast, can't be killed as fast, so will get a higher return. The thing is though that player population has an affect on creature generation, so when the treasure level goes up, it attracts more players, more creatures are genned and killed, and the treasure level goes back down again. What will happen in the long run is the harder/slower to kill/slower genning creature, will prolly get a bonus of 1, where the easier/faster to kill/faster genning creature, will get a -1 to balance it out. The treasure is the bonus to players who choose not to take a path of least resistance for experience.

2> We're going to do something similar with skins too. With that change, also have fluctuations for quality of skins, and that determined by skinning success/skill. Empaths and Rangers will be the ones that will benefit most from that because of their normal skills. Any player that wants to train for that though, would benefit.

3> If a creature has it's own unique way of finding certain treasure on it, then it wouldn't be affected by the new system. If there's a critter for instance that perception helps to find a twingdoodle on it, that's on the creature's script. Even if it calls the normal treasure generation scripts after, one doesn't affect the other.

Category: Suggestions & Ideas for Improvement (2)
Topic: Suggestions, Gripes & Whines (4)
Message #: 10810
Author: GS3-ISSIGRI@play.net (Issigri)
Date: Jan 4, 1999 at 19:53
Subject: Re: Treasure


Another question: What about critters that are fairly difficult for their age. In the old system, the difficulty was compensated by their large amounts of treasure. Now it seems there is no reason to hunt an extremely difficult creature. I'm hoping that the treasure on these types will go back up as less people hunt them, but as of right now, it certainly hasn't. I'm referring to arch wights in particular. They used to carry 2-4k in silvers in a box, and many wights had 100-300 silver on them. Now, most I've found was 58 silver on one, and less than 200 in a box. Considering how dangerous their boils and clouds can be, it hardly seems worth the trouble. And one more thing, places like Icemule have little choice in critter variety. If you're a set age, you have two or three things to hunt. Right now, all of them are poor, so do you really want to drive people out of town just because the hunting areas are overcrowded?

Arch wights are underhunted?

170 21 - "an Arachne servant"
2875 20 - "an arch wight" Undead
526 18 - "a storm giant"
953 20 - "a frost giant"
1102 20 - "a steel golem"

That's a current example of some critters around it. The only thing killed more that's 10 levels either side if an arch wight are a wraith and krolvin warfarer.

Arch wights are way overhunted because they were rich, and a target for cash hunters which got no experience for them, they could be killed in one or two strokes, and grab the cash. Since this just started, they were being overhunted, the treasure dropped. As soon as those that were only hunting them for treasure go elsewhere because they are no longer so attractive, it will go back up because it is a hard critter to kill for it's level.

As for the other towns. Those old poor critters aren't poor anymore. Monkeys have always been poor, as with many other RR critters. Right now, they're a goldmine. This system has to cause migration to those other towns now, that was the biggest reason for it, to spread player populations out, instead of having them fight crowds those selected wealthy critters in hordes. It's kinda sad because River's Rest was such a nice place. :) The current residents there complained about lack of treasure though, and whether it was just flat out added there, or if it was done with this adjusting treasure system, it was going to bring crowds either way. People follow money.

Overall though this will mean the less populated the town, the less hunting pressure it will see, so will be higher bearing in treasure compared to more populated towns. I think the smaller towns will always level out to be less populated, so after this levels out, those in the small towns will be better off as far as treasure.

Also, one of the questions that came up when this was originally posted was if the same critter in two different towns would be counted differently. The answer is yes. So an overhunted zingbat in one town would be degraded, and an underhunted zingbat in another town will be upgraded.

Category: Magic Spells and Systems
Topic: Developer's Corner - Spell Systems
Message #: 1436
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 11/9/2007 7:51:48 PM
Subject: Raise Dead (318) and Treasure

Raise Dead (318) has been removed from randomly generated treasure (scrolls, magical items, etc.), but it's not prohibited for special releases.

GameMaster Estild Cleric/Empath Team

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." - Michel de Montaigne

Category: Magic Spells and Systems
Topic: Developer's Corner - Spell Systems
Message #: 1572
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 11/12/2007 8:28:38 PM
Subject: Teasure: Magical Items.

The following spells have been added to the random treasure generator: Mass Interference (217), Divine Wrath (319), Empathy (1108), Wither (1115), and Cry for Help (1116).

GameMaster Estild Cleric/Empath Team

"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." - Michel de Montaigne

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