Symbol of the Proselyte (340)/saved posts
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This spell is not yet implemented and may or may not currently be under development. Information presented in this article is subject to change. |
Initial Request for Input
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2899
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/11/2010 10:48:10 PM
Subject: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
Hi, all,
We've been working on a design for 340 and want to solicit player feedback on the proposal.
Staff of the Proselyte (340): Clerics are called upon to convert new followers to their flock and to punish the unrepentant. When cast upon the target's runestaff, the caster receives a Spirit CS or bolt AS bonus equal to 5 + the cleric's (INF bonus / 2) for the next few warding or bolt spells. It has base duration of 2 casts + 1 additional cast per (Spiritual Lore, Blessings skill / 50). If the target's spell is cast against an opposing alignment of the cleric (Bane/Smite) then there is an additional +CS/AS modifier equal to the cleric's (WIS bonus / 3). In addition, when the attack is made, instead of adding a d100, it will use 50 + d50 (similar to the Truehand CMAN). To gain the benefit of this effect, the target would CHANT to their runestaff, initiating the buff for the next cast.
To summarize, you'd receive about ~+25 CS/AS with your next attack spell and use a 50 + d50 roll in the attack formula. It is castable on others, but it only works on runestaves and only people with sufficient runestaff training can active it. With reasonable training, you can get about 4 charges per cast.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Duration
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2902
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/11/2010 11:13:34 PM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>>What's to stop a player from keeping it up constantly by either casting it over and over.
The duration would be refreshable, not stackable.
>>or even pre-loading it into a cloakful of runestaves?
Then that's a lot of extra effort and encumbrance to deal with. If we see that it's a problem, I'm sure we can come up with a solution, but I don't envision this being a desirable strategy.
= - GM Oscuro - =
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Precedent for favoring a specific build with a spell
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2899
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2010 12:13:00 AM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>I guess I find it hard to believe that a mid to upper level cleric can't afford to keep it up constantly, even being refreshable. Though I freely admit I don't have the gamewide date to back it up. -farmer
40 mana for 4 charges? That'll work out to be around 2 creatures per cast. Most mid level clerics don't even have the mana to use Divine Fury as a staple.
>Basically, +25 CS for near capped-capped clerics. I didn't know they were lacking in that department. The 50+50 thing seems nice, but eh. Boring, yet useful. Pushes Clerics towards wrack heavy runestaff users, which will just be another reason used to nerf wracking. -CORDELIA
If Sign of Wracking gets modified, it won't be because of this spell.
..So.. you cast this at your own runestaff? Does this mean I have to keep my runestaff now?-PULSEGIVER
Yes, it'll work on your own runestaff. No, you don't have to keep your runestaff - you can give it to me.
>>What about clerics who don't want to use runestaves? - LADYFLEUR
Then you can still cast the spell on others, but you won't receive any benefit. We have similar spells like Divine Shield (1609), where we encourage but don't require certain play styles.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2917
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/12/2010 6:37:52 AM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>>How is this BETTER than Spirit Slayer.. or is it another "to be used on others" spell?
1) You spend the mana before you go out hunting, so it doesn't cost you 40 mana unless you're using it in the field.
2) You can spread out the casts so they don't have to all happen at once. If you're just trying to kill creature X for a bounty and you cast Spirit Slayer and kill the one you're in front of and can't find another before your duration's up, then you didn't get everything out of your 40 mana. 340 allows you to better control your boosted attacks since you activate each one w/ CHANT {staff}.
3) In addition to the CS bonus, it also gives a Truehand style effect to help guarantee a hit.
4) It can be cast on others.
>>I like the idea, I think the effect should expire if the runestaff is stowed or otherwise leaves the casting cleric's hands for any reason. (ie: disarming the runestaff would remove the effect)
Like Bless Item (304), Staff of the Proselyte (340) will be able to be cast at another character and it will affect their wielded staff. It's intended to be able to be a service spell in addition to a personal buff.
= - GM Oscuro - =
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2943
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2010 11:02:49 AM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>How does this interact with Spirit Slayer? -Nick
It won't. The effect ends immediately after your cast, so it's not present for Spirit Slayer (240). Spirit Strike (117) works similarly.
>I don't like the use of the INF bonus. INF racial bonuses are set for face to face interactions between intelligent races. If your race is small or generally despised, you get a racial penalty. If your race is tall you get a racial bonus. You could argue that an elf should be able to boost a dwarf more than the dwarf boosts an elf, but I don't think an elf should be able to boost themself more than a dwarf could boost themself. If INF bonus counts, it should be the difference between cleric and target. Or just use stat/4 rather than bonus/2 in the fornula. -RATHBONER
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/stats.asp
Influence: A person's ability to influence others. Some aspects of Influence include leadership, inspiration, persuasion, intimidation, fear, presence, and personal charm or magnetism. Magic or abilities that affect the target's mind or emotions are typically more powerful for casters with a high Influence attribute.
Given the spell's concept, it makes perfect sense to use influence.
>That is more reasonable. I still dont like Luukosian clerics give better bonuses than Koar's clerics to Charl's followers though. -RATHBONER
You'll have to take that up with the Dark God. :P
>Estild, does the spell stay in effect on the item when it is not a runestaff? (i.e. the convertible/wearable [bracelet, headband, belt] runestaves from <some merchant event several years ago>.) Because I could totally see getting a full set [bracelet, headband, belt] and wearing a dozen charges of the spell, in addition to the charges on my runestaff. -KRAKII
My initial impression is yes, the effect would last if you convert the runestaff into another item, but you would only be able to activate it when it is a runestaff. However, I am not sure I like the idea of loading up on charged runestaves, so we may do something to circumvent that.
>Can the sword-canes be converted over so that the "cane" form is deemed to be a runestaff/2Hand weapon, rather than a fluff prop (which is what I believe it is now)? (Basically, this (1HEdged/2Hand)would turn them into bastard swords [only they'd be a "stick" rather than a "sword"].) -KRAKII
Item conversions rarely happen and definitely don't happen so you can make use of new spells. :P
>So, perhaps my issue isn't so much just regarding this spell but more the design philosophy for how all the spells over level 25 seem to be implemented. -Galenok
That's understandable, but given that we already have hundreds of unique spells in the game, it's exceedingly difficult to come up with new unique ideas. We're always open to suggestions from players though.
>Actually, non-staff users probably have no Aimed Spells skill (since they're not RuneStaffing, they don't care about cheap magical skills) and therefor...are probably using Really Big Weapons [2Hand or Pole Arms], which--given the training point costs--means that it will likely cost them precisely 0 DS to whip out a buffed RuneStaff to get the CS boost for their setup spell before switching back to the big stick to beat the critter to death with. -KRAKII
Not likely, as you must be able to effectively wield a runestaff to activate the effect. At the minimum, this would require 8 magical ranks per level. (We understand that's possible for even some mutant builds, so the 8 ranks per level is just an estimate).
>It sounds like a neat utility spell. There for when you need it, but not a "use on every hunt for every cast" sort of thing. -KRAKII
If it's being used for every cast on a hunt, we'll probably make an update to prohibit such activity. However, I do think it'll be used on every hunt since the idea is that you're casting it when not hunting. I envision my cleric using up all the charges each hunt. If I know I'm on my last creature for a hunt, I'm going to burn the charges since I'll just recast the spell while resting.
>Is the "trained for a staff" requirement going to be a minimum number of magic ranks, which will make it impossible for non-pures to use pre-cap, but will not stop weapon trained pures using it by swapping their weapon for a staff when they want to? -RATHBONER
It'll require a certain number of magical ranks per level.
>Sorry, this is what I dislike most about it. It really is only good for grizzleds and invasions. If you need it to hunt otherwise, you are doing it wrong. -Galenok
Clerics certainly don't need the spell. It just makes things easier every once in a while. If we only made updates on the basis of need, the game would be rather static.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
d50 roll
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2918
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/11/2010 6:45:49 AM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>>A little bonus effect perhaps, but the 50+d50 roll is the major effect and I don't think that should be smite/bane.
That's not the bonus for appropriate Smite/Bane alignment - that's only the WIS/3 to CS/AS part. The 50+d50 roll is always there, regardless of target.
= - GM Oscuro - =
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Effect on multi-frame spells
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 2948
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2010 11:21:21 AM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>Also, does mass attack spells like 319 and divine fury get the bonuses for just 1 frame of the attack, or all frames? -KAZOKI
It would probably just last 1 frame, but you could reactivate the effect in between frames.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3025
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/12/2010 5:20:21 PM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>>here's another question... what about the empath bolt/cs hybrid... does the buff only work for the initial bolt attack of Empathic Assault?
Only the initial bolt. As Estild said, things that happen in waves will only get the buff for the first "wave," which in the case of Empathic Assault, is the bolt.
>>just curious, because I think 309 would be a great spot for another spell of that nature if Clerics are going to have something like what you guys (GMs) are planning for 340.
You guys are really jonesing for a bolt in 309, huh?
GameMaster Oscuro
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Armor failure
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3019
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/12/2010 4:22:00 PM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
>Say you CHANT {staff} and then get armor failure on the cast. Is the charge wasted? -Nick
Nope.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Runestaff requirement removal
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3087
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/18/2010 5:06:06 PM
Subject: Re: Staff of the Proselyte (340)
After some additional discussion, we're going to amend the proposal to use symbols instead of runestaves. (We had discussed this a few days before Dgry's post...I think he may be a Savant).
We'll be doing a review to automatically update most scripted symbols, but we may also offer special merchants to convert ones that cannot be done automatically. Outside of that, we'll be updating the obelisks in the new Zul Logoth shrine to generate unlimited symbols, so that you may stock up and hand them out to your converts.
You'll only be able to grant the effect to symbols which match your deity and it's going to consume 2 spirit points. If you're granting this buff while resting, as we mostly intend, then this additional cost is minor. Using it out in the field will require a bit more discretion. Lastly, we're increasing the base charges from 2 to 3.
*Empaths will receive the full bonus until we implement the Minor Mental circle, at which we'll be converting the 1100s into a spirit/mental hybrid circle, thus only granting half the bonus.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3103
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/19/2010 6:08:42 AM
Subject: Re: 340 Symbol of the proselyte in review
>>to grant a Spirit CS or bolt AS bonus equal to 5 + the cleric's (INF bonus / 2) ( ROUNDED UP or DOWN? )
Down.
>>It has base duration of 2 casts + 1 additional cast per (Spiritual Lore, Blessings skill / 50).
We changed the base duration to 3 casts.
>>(Not sure i'm understanding this part. so if im a bane cleric then this works better on living? and if im smite it works better on undead?)
Yes.
>>and this works for spirit spells only? so bards and wizards having no access to any spirit sphere spells will get no benefit from the spell?
Only the CS portion is tied to spiritual spells. Just like other in-sphere CS boosts (425, 1612, etc.), the full CS bonus is only granted to other spells in the spiritual Sphere (MnS, MjS, Cleric, Ranger, Paladin and for a little while longer, Empath) and half the bonus is granted to hybrid spheres (Sorcerer and soon-to-be Empath). However, the bolt AS boost and die roll effect will affect other spheres of magic equally so any caster should benefit from Symbol of the Proselyte (340).
GameMaster Oscuro
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3106
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/19/2010 1:47:27 PM
Subject: Re: Symbol of the Proselyte (340)
I just peered at a Iasha white ora weapon, and my eyes misted over as I looked at this symbol of my deity. Came close to crying, I did. Though I'll assume symbols aren't always 'symbols'. -CAERLANRIG
Only worn symbols will count.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3122
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/20/2010 9:42:03 AM
Subject: Re: Symbol of the Proselyte (340)
Technically, any item can be designated as a holy symbol; it'll be a new property that can be added to any object. However, it's unlikely that you'll see it added to just anything. A holy symbol is a sign that represents your faith, not some mundane item.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team
Arkati Requirement
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3106
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 5/19/2010 10:00:14 AM
Subject: Re: Symbol of the Proselyte (340)
>>Does this mean that clerics converted to "other" won't be able to use this spell? Or am I missing something (which is very possible)?
No, they can use it. They just need a symbol aligned to Other. If you have a holy symbol item already, there's a chance it will be auto-converted when the spell is released, otherwise, we will bring some merchants around to manually convert some symbols.
However, Clerics that have not chosen a god (or have CONVERT FORSAKEn the gods) will not be able to use Symbol of the Proselyte (340).
GameMaster Oscuro
Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team
Topic: Developer's Corner - Clerics
Message #: 3109
Author: GS4-ESTILD
Date: 5/19/2010 10:41:30 AM
Subject: Re: Symbol of the Proselyte (340)
Does the chanter have to have the same alignment as the symbol they are chanting to? e.g. is there any mechanical disadvantage to a Fash' sorc getting a Lumnis symbol from a Lumnis cleric and chanting to it or do they get the full bonus? -RATHBONER
No, but they're going to be sharing the caster's faith by having to wear the symbol. :)
How will it work for area effect web? Will it boost the hidden CS roll to entangle or not? -RATHBONER
Yes.
See how it goes perhaps, but I think you will probably have to come up with another limiting mechanism as well as the spirit drain. Outside of CoL I don't think it will be too difficult to maintain a sack of symbols. -RATHBONER
The same restriction that we previously outlined for using different runestaves will apply to using different symbols. Meaning, once you active the effect from a specific symbol, you can't active the effect from a different symbol for ten minutes.
GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team